The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Probably.

He reacted badly to having a crash. Now people who have never met him are demanding that he loses his career on the basis of a 10 second video because they need to rage against someone. Social media pile-ons are worse than a petty scrap in a bike race. People have flaws and if you are raging strangers on the internet I am guessing you have more than most, so just try to be kind.

Maybe he should ride for Astana. They're Teflon as far as criticism is concerned - remember Lopez, people cheered that.

So, tomorrow you go to work, and your co-worker accidentally spills some coffee on your keyboard. You respond by slamming your keyboard in his face. And you are now telling us you don't expect to be fired over that because you're normally a nice guy?

It doesn't really matter if he's a nice guy or not (and word is, he isn't), and you calling it "a petty scrap" doesn't change what happened. Not to mention this is broadcast before millions of people worldwide.

 

[slosada]

if he didn't ride for Ineos the big bad Anglo Saxons that they are, i doubt many of you would even care what he gets up to

Here is the pure definition of an Ad-hominem.
Thanks for bringing relevant "arguments"
------
I don't think this guy will ever learn. Every time he has minor fines or gets released by lawyers, it's only reinforcing his behaviour.

 

[tobydawq]

Probably.

He reacted badly to having a crash. Now people who have never met him are demanding that he loses his career on the basis of a 10 second video because they need to rage against someone. Social media pile-ons are worse than a petty scrap in a bike race. People have flaws and if you are raging strangers on the internet I am guessing you have more than most, so just try to be kind.

Maybe he should ride for Astana. They're Teflon as far as criticism is concerned - remember Lopez, people cheered that.

No. Just no.

 

[tobydawq]

I felt the Reichenbach incident was the worst as he deliberately tried to knock a competitor off his bike on a decent and for what ? He could have been seriously injured or worse

Could have? You don't think breaking your elbow is a serious injury for a bike rider?

 

[rick james]

Apparently, as long as Moscon doesn't screw up in the exact same way twice, he's a-ok in the eyes of Ineos.

If he didn't ride for Ineos you wouldn't be so keen on defending him.

I'm not defending him, what he done was wrong and deserved to be kicked out the race

 

[RedheadDane]

Maybe he should ride for Astana. They're Teflon as far as criticism is concerned - remember Lopez, people cheered that.

That was a spectator. Spectators just need to get the *** out of the way, and let the riders do their job.

 

[Salvarani]

The team should give him a fine or at least hold him out from racing for 2 weeks or something. Just to show they dont agree with that behavior. Probably wont happen though.

 

[SafeBet]

Scary part is... imagine if he got fired by INEOS, and ended up on some smaller (Italian) team not at all equipped to handle someone who pretty clearly has issues

Ineos might be equipped to better handle such situations on paper.
But how poorly did they manage the racist incident 3 years ago? Six week suspension, Moscon attended a "diversity awareness course" and was told he would be fired if it happened again.
That was 3 years and a number of other incidents ago. And nothing has changed.

 

[RedheadDane]

The team should give him a fine or at least hold him out from racing for 2 weeks or something. Just to show they dont agree with that behavior. Probably wont happen though.

To be paid to Debusshere (and B&B Hotels). After all, what difference would it make if the fine went to INEOS themselves?

But how poorly did they manage the racist incident 3 years ago? Six week suspension, Moscon attended a "diversity awareness course" and was told he would be fired if it happened again.

Unfortunately, when they said that he'd be fired if "it" happened again, they might have thought of "it" as the racist thing. Not the generally quite short temper, which makes him do - and say - really stupid ***!

 

[Salvarani]

To be paid to Debusshere (and B&B Hotels). After all, what difference would it make if the fine went to INEOS themselves?

It is not about the money though... it is just to show the behavior is not okay and doing something. Giving him a fine or reducing his salary, is just one thing that you usually you do when someone has not behaved at work. From the employers side. To try and set them straight and stop the bad behavior.

Repeated offenses usually get one fired, but that wont happen here I think.

 

[42x16ss]

if he didn't ride for Ineos the big bad Anglo Saxons that they are, i doubt many of you would even care what he gets up to

No.

Don't try to play victim.

Ask Bouhanni.

 

[42x16ss]

Probably.

He reacted badly to having a crash. Now people who have never met him are demanding that he loses his career on the basis of a 10 second video because they need to rage against someone. Social media pile-ons are worse than a petty scrap in a bike race. People have flaws and if you are raging strangers on the internet I am guessing you have more than most, so just try to be kind.

Maybe he should ride for Astana. They're Teflon as far as criticism is concerned - remember Lopez, people cheered that.

Let's see you react like this to Bouhanni's next indiscretion

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Bouhanni is an angel compared to Moscon. Doesn't deserve half of the **** he's getting.

 

[bambino]

That was a spectator. Spectators just need to get the *** out of the way, and let the riders do their job.

To be really fair, this is not an excuse. Violence or threat of violence should never be acceptable, in any circumstances. Not in sports or in life in general.

Saying that, Moscon really is on the thin ice for his entire career. The worst thing is that he simply doesn't seem to learn from the mistakes and I bet Ineos and UCI in general will have hard times to believe he wouldn't do this over and over again.

 

[hrotha]

"Why does [Rider A]'s single incident not get as much criticism as Moscon's long list?"

 

[yaco]

Doubt Ineos will have to do anything as a suspension will come from the UCI.

 

[Parker]

So, tomorrow you go to work, and your co-worker accidentally spills some coffee on your keyboard. You respond by slamming your keyboard in his face. And you are now telling us you don't expect to be fired over that because you're normally a nice guy?

I don't do a job where people get injured on a daily basis. If I caused an incident in my office that caused several workers to end up in hospital and put some off work for weeks I wouldn't expect people to just brush it off.

 

[King Boonen]

Is anyone actually shocked..?

No? didn't think so. The UCI need to punish him. Expecting the team to punish him is pointless. All it does is inconvenience them so they are clearly incentivised to go for the lowest acceptable punishment. Even if they were to fire him, he'll get picked up by another team, which essentially just punishes the team as well.

 

[Gigs_98]

I'm not saying we should judge someone because of one incident. We should probably still give people the benefit of the doubt after two incidents. But to those defending him I have to ask, after how many incidents can we assume his mind isn't a problem? And really how many incidents have there been already. I have to admit, I'm starting to give up on him.

 

[RedheadDane]

To be really fair, this is not an excuse. Violence or threat of violence should never be acceptable, in any circumstances. Not in sports or in life in general.

To me it's the difference between lashing out at someone for doing their job - and simply being plain unlucky, in Debusschere's case - and lashing out at someone for hindering you in doing your job. Though, TBF... maybe the continued punching was overdoing it a bit...
And to continue the talk about 'numbers of incidents'; Lopez has one - the Giro incident - Moscon has three confirmed incidents, plus a suspected one. And that's not even mentioning the World Championship incident, which wasn't so much violence, as just plain old cheating.

(BTW, I consider the Reza incident a case of violence as well, just "word violence" rather than physical violence.)

 

[Pippo_San]

Anyway it seems to me in this peculiar case things are getting a little over your head guys. From the video it looks to me he just fell of his bike and with anger threw away the bike of another rider which unfortunately fell over Debusschere.
It doesn't look intentional or anything, I guess he was just full of adrenaline, even the same Debusschere played down a little this incident. Let's not get over ourselves. He's been a bit of an as**ole but that's that.

 

[Bob F]

Anyway it seems to me in this peculiar case things are getting a little over your head guys. From the video it looks to me he just fell of his bike and with anger threw away the bike of another rider which unfortunately fell over Debusschere.
It doesn't look intentional or anything, I guess he was just full of adrenaline, even the same Debusschere played down a little this incident. Let's not get over ourselves. He's been a bit of an as**ole but that's that.

By that logic completely normal behaviour and he didn't deserve to be disqualified: Theatrically tearing up his race number was truly professional. A real one-off.

 

[RedheadDane]

Anyway it seems to me in this peculiar case things are getting a little over your head guys. From the video it looks to me he just fell of his bike and with anger threw away the bike of another rider which unfortunately fell over Debusschere.
It doesn't look intentional or anything, I guess he was just full of adrenaline, even the same Debusschere played down a little this incident. Let's not get over ourselves. He's been a bit of an as**ole but that's that.

You've sorta got a point; bikes frequently do get thrown around a little in the stress to get up and get going after a crash. Heck… if there'd been a badly injured rider under that bike we might even have been praising him. However, I think most riders usually make sure there isn't another rider in the way whenever the throw a bike aside (and also do the throwing a lot less forcefully…), so maybe INEOS needs to teach him not only anger management, but also spacial awareness.

By that logic completely normal behaviour and he didn't deserve to be disqualified: Theatrically tearing up his race number was truly professional. A real one-off.

I don't think that's at all what Pippo_San is saying. But simply that the calling for a perma-pan is overblown.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think that considering Pippo_San's questionable posts and support for controversial riders in the past, he simply thinks Moscon hasn't done anything wrong ever and we are all just a bunch of SJW snowflakes.

 

[spalco]

Scary part is... imagine if he got fired by INEOS, and ended up on some smaller (Italian) team not at all equipped to handle someone who pretty clearly has issues, without getting his head right first…
Too bad there isn't a team out there specifically created to put focus on mental health issues...

Come on... I mean the incident in KBK was indefensible and I doubt many people would miss Moscon if he was removed from the peloton.

Ban him for the season, ban him for life, whatever, I don't care. But he's not a cannibal serial killer or something.