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Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread

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GenericBoonenFan

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AndrewKelly

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Libertine Seguros said:
I wrote about a future with prospective loaning of junior and espoir talent being signed to WT teams progressively earlier and earlier here. I think we're potentially headed for either an ice hockey-style market with riders picked up at youth level and then being placed in "the system" as each team will 'own' or affiliate to Continental teams, espoir teams and maybe even ProTeams to create a development path, assigning riders to different teams within their farm as they see fit, or a football-style transfer market of the biggest teams signing up any and all young prospects then loaning them out to other teams at lower levels until they're ready to either graduate to the main team or be discarded. The success of a few big young talents and the hording of top prospects by Sky/Ineos thanks to their skimming the cream off other people's development programs, tempting them across using the money they saved by not spending it on a development program (plus a very pliant Acquadro giving them the lowdown on what the winning offer should be) has meant teams are progressively looking to grab hold of riders ever earlier, in case they miss the boat on the next Egan Bernal or Remco Evenepoel.

Savio has played this masterfully, of course, doing a great line in signing wonderkids up to contracts they'll always be ready to graduate before the end of, and then pocketing the buyout figure. It's a bit like the Athletic Bilbao strategy - you will get your player from Bilbao, but not when their contract is up or when there's a low buyout clause. They'll sign one last contract with Athletic, to ensure that the team that nurtured them can continue to grow using its strategy of only local talent, and then leave shortly afterward when that higher buyout clause that better reflects their value to Athletic (i.e. slightly higher than market value because of the greater difficulty Bilbao will have in sourcing a replacement) is met.

When the second richest team in the sport (at the time) disbands its development team because it can't stop the richest team in the sport stealing all its top talents, no doubt it's frustrating, but you can't really blame Sky/Ineos for doing it. With the help of very compliant agents, they create a system whereby the only threats to their continued success are riders they've already taken a look at and rejected - a great way to create a dynasty, especially now they're less tied to the national project identity so there isn't as much emphasis on a British leader as in the early years. It's easy to be angry at the big money clubs preying on the lower money clubs (notwithstanding that it's not easy to feel sympathy for Jim Ochowicz, of course) creating a Ligue 1-like financial disparity and concentrating all the talent into top teams (you know, like Riyadh Mahrez signing for Manchester City to sit on the bench for 3/4 the season) reducing the variety in the races, but as long as that doesn't create a situation where it destroys the spectacle and affects the audience (as it has done in Ligue 1, which has easily the lowest viewing figures of the 'big 5' leagues in Europe worldwide if I remember rightly), it's smart business. Once it starts affecting the audience and turning fans away because of a lack of spectacle, then of course it's no longer smart business and it's in their interest to try to entice more competition to win that audience back.

Eleven years ago, Cervélo Test Team worked out they could get the best calendar of anybody - they didn't spend the money applying for a ProTour licence. They instead bought a much cheaper ProContinental licence, and used the money they'd saved by doing that to pay some world class riders, which meant that they were welcomed as a wildcard at almost every ProTour race. It was a fantastic success but the long term effects of it changed the wildcard system forever.

Three or four years ago, Sky worked out they could get the best prospect line of anybody - they didn't spend the money running feeder teams or setting up development programs. They instead kept their money in their pockets, and when riders excelled in other people's development programs, they offered them more money than the team that developed them could, because they didn't have the cost of the continued running of a development team to consider. It's a fantastic success at present, and the long term effects of it may change the transfer system forever. Whether that's for the better or the worse, we won't know for a good few years, just as the real impacts of Cervélo and BMC's big spending in the ProConti scene have only really become apparent in the last three or four years too.
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This post brings up an interesting point about the current state of cycling and how teams are recruiting young talents. The author suggests that the success of a few big young talents and the hording of top prospects by teams like Sky/Ineos, who do not have their own development programs, has led to other teams looking to grab hold of riders ever earlier. The author also brings up the analogy of Athletic Bilbao strategy and how teams like Sky/Ineos are also creating a system where the only threats to their continued success are riders they've already taken a look at and rejected. It raises the question of whether this trend is good for the sport and whether it will affect the audience, and the spectacle of the races. It will be interesting to see how this trend develops in the future.
 
Samu Cuenca

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Skijumper Roglic fan said:

Tom Lindner

Tom Lindner (born 2001-08-29 in Zwickau) is a former professional road racing cyclist from Germany, active between 2018 and 2022. His best results are 3rd place in stage Sazka Tour and 14th place in GC Deutschland Tour.
www.procyclingstats.com www.procyclingstats.com

Tom apparently has retired after 2022. Maybe biggest German talent. Anyone knows the reason(s)?

That would be a huge surprise!…
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I may have been quite ignorant in this case, but I'm not sure I have ever heard of the guy. A forum search also indicates that this is the first time he's ever been mentioned on here.
 
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Mayomaniac

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search said:
don't know him either, but here's a bit about it at least:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615829363542433794
View: https://twitter.com/awesomewave13/status/1615829363542433794


edit: and a longer article https://www.freiepresse.de/sport/lo...radprofi-zieht-die-not-bremse-artikel12662156
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I mean, the German system is still pretty much the same it used to be and deeply rooted in Eastern Germany. They have a history of young athletes burning out quickly, they often have them train like pros really young and put too much pressure and media exposure on them by hyping them as the next Ullrich when they are still juniors (see Herklotz or Brenner, who they hyped as "better than Ulle at his age").
 
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GenericBoonenFan

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Mayomaniac said:
I mean, the German system is still pretty much the same it used to be and deeply rooted in Eastern Germany. They have a history of young athletes burning out quickly, they often have them train like pros really young and put too much pressure and media exposure on them by hyping them as the next Ullrich when they are still juniors (see Herklotz or Brenner, who they hyped as "better than Ulle at his age").
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I think that's a very Germanic thing to do. It also happens in the Netherlands or Belgium but our talentpool is bigger, so more talents eventually end up in the pros.
 
S

Skijumper Roglic fan

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search said:
don't know him either, but here's a bit about it at least:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615829363542433794
View: https://twitter.com/awesomewave13/status/1615829363542433794


edit: and a longer article https://www.freiepresse.de/sport/lo...radprofi-zieht-die-not-bremse-artikel12662156
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, search… :)

So it‘s true and he left… I’m shocked, to be honest. When he left P&S, I was almost certain he had a WT contract for 2023 and 2024. What could have happened in the background?

Maybe someone had a talk with him, and opened Tom‘s eyes about clinic related stuff - and Tom got disgusted. That‘s speculation, but an issue which disgusts many hopeful U23 riders.

All the best to him.

He‘s like Kämna - incredibly strong, and an intelligent person.
 
S

Skijumper Roglic fan

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Skijumper Roglic fan said:
Maybe someone had a talk with him, and opened Tom‘s eyes about clinic related stuff - and Tom got disgusted. That‘s speculation, but an issue which disgusts many hopeful U23 riders.
Click to expand...

Sadly, what I mentioned could very well be the truth about his retirement.

Radsport-News quotes Lindner:

“Es haben sich mir einfach Dinge gezeigt, womit ich, ehrlich gesagt, nicht klarkommen konnte und sowas auch für die Zukunft nicht wollte."

Translation:

„Things just showed up to me that, to be honest, I couldn't deal with and didn't want anything like that in the future either."

So seems clinic related, indeed. Or could very well be, at least.

Sad.
 
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Netserk

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AndrewKelly said:
This post brings up an interesting point about the current state of cycling and how teams are recruiting young talents. The author suggests that the success of a few big young talents and the hording of top prospects by teams like Sky/Ineos, who do not have their own development programs, has led to other teams looking to grab hold of riders ever earlier. The author also brings up the analogy of Athletic Bilbao strategy and how teams like Sky/Ineos are also creating a system where the only threats to their continued success are riders they've already taken a look at and rejected. It raises the question of whether this trend is good for the sport and whether it will affect the audience, and the spectacle of the races. It will be interesting to see how this trend develops in the future.
Click to expand...
Chat?
 
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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

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Israel-Premier Tech are kind of the Pittsburgh Penguins of the World Tour. They know the team is getting older, and yet every move they make just exacerbates that, offloading younger athletes and mis-steps and going for veterans and re-treads. At least the Pens can look back on the triumphs that they themselves had as a result, though, whereas IPT are looking back at what their guys achieved for somebody else...
 
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tobydawq

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Libertine Seguros said:
Israel-Premier Tech are kind of the Pittsburgh Penguins of the World Tour. They know the team is getting older, and yet every move they make just exacerbates that, offloading younger athletes and mis-steps and going for veterans and re-treads. At least the Pens can look back on the triumphs that they themselves had as a result, though, whereas IPT are looking back at what their guys achieved for somebody else...
Click to expand...

I don't think it's applicable here. Last year, he was third in Emilia and top 10 in the Giro. He isn't much below his best level (at least not last year).

You could be right of course (and apart form Pozzovivo's case, I definitely don't disagree particularly with you here).
 
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Mayomaniac

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Krzysztof_O said:
Domenico will be a valuable addition to the TdF winning team this year.
Click to expand...
He adds a lot to their Giro team, while most of their capable climbers focus on the Ardennes classics.
Happy for Domenico and for the team it's also good, he can give them good results in stage races or really hard one the races (the guy was 3rd in Emilia less than half a year ago) while needing very little support.
 
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