The greatest individual sporting lie?

[Berzin]

Actually how about all the east german sport from th 60's thru 80's? That's got to be up there as the greatest fraud.

My apologies if this has been previously posted, but I figured it would be good to have some insight on this topic.

Secrets of the Dead-Doping for Gold (Organized Doping in East Germany)

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/doping-for-gold-2/42/

This is not a film but an investigative report done by PBS on the highly secretive and organized doping program of the East Germans in the 70's and 80's that ushered in a golden era of sport and Olympic success for the nation, but at an incredible cost to the female athletes who had no idea they were being doped.

We are witness to the methodical approach the of communist government in its' research and development of the most highly organized and veiled doping program ever uncovered-it encompassed party officials, chemists and doctors, who used methods of coercion, spying and financial incentives to motivate coaches to squeeze the most out of the athletes.

Interviews with the women involved, who have decided to speak out after years of silence, speak volumes to the cost on their health and personal lives, many still feeling the adverse effects years after competing.

The almost one hour program is broken down into 6 chapters. It makes for compelling viewing, and makes one wonder just what is going on today given what they were doing in the 1970's and 80's.

 

[Anonymous]

My apologies if this has been previously posted, but I figured it would be good to have some insight on this topic.

Secrets of the Dead-Doping for Gold (Organized Doping in East Germany)

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/doping-for-gold-2/42/.

watched the first couple of minutes.. looks like a good watch.. shall sit in and watch that later..

as for lewis v armstrong, for me the reason lewis is worse.. armstrong competes in front of a few million in a sport riddled with doping, in fact probably at the leading edge of doping most of the time.. lewis competes most famously in front of a world wide audience of billions, under the banner of the olympic ideal.. an ideal that stresses ethics, fairness.. yeh right...

 

[thehog]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article6934151.ece

excellent article.

 

[Digger]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article6934151.ece

excellent article.

yeah probably the only thing I've to show for my day at work!!
Good read. If Tim is anything to go by, there won't be too many confessions in hte future - amnesty or not.

 

[Anonymous]

Someone is cruzing the threads for deviant sexual partners

Hey, to whomever tagged the thread with "tff=homosexual": What are you looking for? Cleveland Steamer with a reverse Teebag dismount? Maybe some shrimping or felching? Rusty trombone? Just PM me and I will see what I can do to hook you up.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, to whomever tagged the thread with "tff=homosexual": What are you looking for? Cleveland Steamer with a reverse Teebag dismount? Maybe some shrimping or felching? Rusty trombone? Just PM me and I will see what I can do to hook you up.

i think its about time tagging was removed except for the thread creator..

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Thanks for that link, Berzin. That shows the story that Faust's Gold tells for the most part.

Would also recommend people watch Chris Bell's excellent documentary film Bigger, Stronger, Faster., which brings up many of these issues, including talks with Flandis, Lewis & Johnson, etc.

One thing about Carl Lewis is that most people in the US today still aren't aware, or don't care about his doping - even though Dr. Wade Exum showed quite clearly some of it, and Lewis later confessed - under the absurd guise that "everyone was doing it, and he did less than others". He's still treated for the most part like an Olympic hero.

That article on Tim Montgomery is sobering.

 

[podilato]

I think for lies there are plenty from the Olympics. What about the American boxer (I can't recall the name) who was denied a gold medal at the 1988 Olympics because the judges were bribed by South Korean officials.

What about the FIFA official Jack Warner who made millions when he awarded himself the exclusive rights to World Cup tickets. He even used FIFA money to pay himself rent for an office block he owned in Trinidad I believe. For true skulduggery the really big liars are the big sports officials.

 

[buckwheat]

As to baseball, it's my belief that Bonds is the biggest liar. He was 185lbs, and skinny, and in his mid 30's put on about 40 pounds of pure muscle, and broke some of the most coveted records in baseball. Clemens was a great pitcher before steroids, which just prolonged his career. Palmero maybe the same. Arod and Manny are flat out liars too, but Bonds is the biggest fraud.

FloJo had to have been doped to the gills, but she died a tragic death and never really rose to the public level that some of these other people we're discussing did.

Bonds was a first ballot Hall of Famer before juicing period.

There is a belief A Rod was juicing in HS.

Bonds supposedly started juicing after the '98 season because he was jealous of all the attention McGwire and Sosa received in their home run race when Maris' record fell according to Game of Shadows. Bonds won the MVP that season and had won 3 or 4 times before.

 

[Anonymous]

My apologies if this has been previously posted, but I figured it would be good to have some insight on this topic.

Secrets of the Dead-Doping for Gold (Organized Doping in East Germany)

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/doping-for-gold-2/42/

just watched the documentary.. no surprises, but shocking nonetheless..

amazing to see that as a result heidi kreiger female shot putter is now andreas kreiger (man).. basically had no choice as the steroids had turned her male anyway..

an hour well spent

(theres also some really good other secrets of the dead programs.. a good few nights tv planned now)

 

[skk6691]

Carl Lewis tested positive for stimulants at levels which would not be considered a positive sample now. I could not find any articles suggesting that he took steroids or hgh. The benefits received from taking those stimulants would be low compared to taking epo or blood doping as shown by Lance's pre and post cancer performances.

I am surprised that our English friends have not mentioned the 'hand of god' in the football world cup. I thought that might rate a mention as a top ten.....

 

[Anonymous]

I am surprised that our English friends have not mentioned the 'hand of god' in the football world cup. I thought that might rate a mention as a top ten.....

nah.. i think most of the british are just whining losers who like excuses for when they are beaten by a better team.. if it hadnt of been the hand of god that day it would have been something else.. if england win a world cup in my lifetime i will be amazed, but they will find an excuse every four years to justify why they lost, referees, hands of god, illness, missed penalties, famine, war, plague of locusts.. there will always be some excuse..

 

[ak-zaaf]

nah.. i think most of the british are just whining losers who like excuses for when they are beaten by a better team.. if it hadnt of been the hand of god that day it would have been something else.. if england win a world cup in my lifetime i will be amazed, but they will find an excuse every four years to justify why they lost, referees, hands of god, illness, missed penalties, famine, war, plague of locusts.. there will always be some excuse..

Pretty sad for a country that needed a non-goal to win their only price

 

[Galic Ho]

just watched the documentary.. no surprises, but shocking nonetheless..

amazing to see that as a result heidi kreiger female shot putter is now andreas kreiger (man).. basically had no choice as the steroids had turned her male anyway..

an hour well spent

(theres also some really good other secrets of the dead programs.. a good few nights tv planned now)

I just finished watching it. Disgusting and makes one feel for the athletes who have suffered terribly. Poor women, end up almost as men. Psychologically that must be near impossible for one to fathom unless you have experienced it yourself.

The episode revealed all that is wrong with doping and the many mentalities. It also gave me some insight in how to combat doping and entrenched mindsets. Some of the athletes were naive and horrified when they realised the lie their lives had become. Others are unrepentant because of the struggle, namely they feel despite not having a full scope of their training and supplementation they still deserve the results. I understand that. They should have been given the choice and information.

I fear this type of behaviour is getting worse and more widespread. Integrity and personal strength are needed to say no, no matter how tempting offers to cheat or take a pill are. The episode showed one thing. Money and perceived glory are the sole motivators for cheating. Never accountability and honesty.

 

[poupou]

I am surprised that our English friends have not mentioned the 'hand of god' in the football world cup. I thought that might rate a mention as a top ten.....

For every football match, there is a lot of trick like this that everyone can see with TV replay.
There is worst when player try to hurt or wound a contender.

Belgian newspaper Le soir just published a list of tricks to beat doping testing:
- sometimes urine is cold as it comes from refrigerator
- a bulgarian athlete had give adress of his sister,
- Sureyya Ayhan had try to flee 5 times the testers, then poured his urine sample, and finally gave an already prepared samples,
- Russian rowing team was caught in Switzerland because they throw their syringes and transfusion equipement in the bad garbage.

 

[Galic Ho]

Ak Zaaf if you are referring to England they won the 1966 world cup by two goals. If Argentina they'd already won the 1978 Worlc Cup against the Dutch (which you should know as I believe you are Dutch). Non goal...there have been muich worse. Brazil in my book only have 3 world cups. Italy in 1994 should have won (penalties don't count make them return in a week or 2-3 days for a rematch as one team will win the second time). Against Turkey in 2002, cheating Romario handed them a freebie. Same against Ghana at the last world cup. Ref handed them a free win and then they were outclassed in all quarters by France. Football is all controlled these days. It is more corrupt than cylcing. Blatter should be taken out and drawn and quartered for what he has allowed to transpire. Corrupt beyond comparison. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Ak Zaaf if you are referring to England they won the 1966 world cup by two goals. If Argentina they'd already won the 1978 Worlc Cup against the Dutch (which you should know as I believe you are Dutch). Non goal...there have been muich worse. Brazil in my book only have 3 world cups. Italy in 1994 should have won (penalties don't count make them return in a week or 2-3 days for a rematch as one team will win the second time). Against Turkey in 2002, cheating Romario handed them a freebie. Same against Ghana at the last world cup. Ref handed them a free win and then they were outclassed in all quarters by France. Football is all controlled these days. It is more corrupt than cylcing. Blatter should be taken out and drawn and quartered for what he has allowed to transpire. Corrupt beyond comparison. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Hehehe, I was only joking but it was in overtime
But what do you mean with Argentina in '78? Dutch people often say they gave it to Argentina and if Rensenbrink would have made a goal in stead of hitting the post they would have played injury time until Argentina equalized. I don't really believe in that.
Since I'm Dutch I might add Brasil got an offside goal against Holland in the '94 world cup QF's and Holland wasn't given an obvious penalty in the 119th minute of the '98 semis again against Brasil

And I know football is more corrupt than any other sport. It's the biggest sport in the world financially, that's the only point you have to make.
Blatter buys his seat, the UEFA does everything in it's power to avoid another Porto-Monaco CL final, Italy got the last World Cup handed to them against the Aussies, the Koreans were so nice they got a free pass to the Semis in '02...and on and on and on.


To stay on topic I would like to add the Topalev vs. Kramnik bathroom incident where Kramnik showed very poor bladder control and Topalev's manager accused him of getting computer-aid on the toilet.
Not a really great sporting lie, but a good story anyway.

 

[workingclasshero]

But what do you mean with Argentina in '78? Dutch people often say they gave it to Argentina

it wasn't me who said this but i assume he's referring to the peru game? at least that's the one where questions have been raised (well the highest number of questions anyway, it was a dodgy tournament all round). impossible to prove though

btw galic ho, i don't think romario was in the brazil squad in 2002, however i seem to remember that rivaldo went down with a horrific head injury after having been hit in the leg .... by the ball!!! and it was softly struck as well

 

[Berzin]

Would also recommend people watch Chris Bell's excellent documentary film Bigger, Stronger, Faster., which brings up many of these issues, including talks with Flandis, Lewis & Johnson, etc.

Did you know that Chris Bell's brother, the one in the documentary who went out to California with his wife, committed suicide?

I felt terrible when I heard the news.

 

[buckwheat]

Carl Lewis tested positive for stimulants at levels which would not be considered a positive sample now. I could not find any articles suggesting that he took steroids or hgh. The benefits received from taking those stimulants would be low compared to taking epo or blood doping as shown by Lance's pre and post cancer performances.

I am surprised that our English friends have not mentioned the 'hand of god' in the football world cup. I thought that might rate a mention as a top ten.....

That's what I was thinking, although, we both may be wrong.

That stimulants were Lewis' drugs and there wasn't evidence of other drugs.

Not that this excuses Lewis, but on a comparative basis, his cheating was miniscule next to the fraud of Armstrong.

Armstrong's coverup and representation of himself is also monsterous and far exceeds his sporting fraud if it's taken seperately.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hehehe, I was only joking but it was in overtime
But what do you mean with Argentina in '78? Dutch people often say they gave it to Argentina and if Rensenbrink would have made a goal in stead of hitting the post they would have played injury time until Argentina equalized. I don't really believe in that.
...

In the game against Peru, Argentina needed at least 4 goals differential to classify to the semis and they won 6-0. The big question was raised because the Goal Keeper was originally born in Argentina but had a Peruvian citizenship. Besides that was the Peru team that had Cubillas, Cueto and others that made history for the country as one of the best teams.

During the finals some people questioned some calls from the referees but who doesn't if you are in the loosing team.

Anyway, enough said.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think for lies there are plenty from the Olympics. What about the American boxer (I can't recall the name) who was denied a gold medal at the 1988 Olympics because the judges were bribed by South Korean officials.

That was Roy Jones Jr!

Along with Skategate, the Beijing gymnastics, etc. it's my opinion that there should be no judging in the Olympics, and all such sports should be exhibition only, with participatory medals given.

Carl Lewis tested positive for stimulants at levels which would not be considered a positive sample now. I could not find any articles suggesting that he took steroids or hgh. The benefits received from taking those stimulants would be low compared to taking epo or blood doping as shown by Lance's pre and post cancer performances.

You are correct, the fraud though is that most people still only think of him as an Olympic hero, and clean, when it's obvious he cheated by doping in an effort to win, and got help from USOC in covering it up. But no, he didn't dope to the degree of EPO or blood doping.

Did you know that Chris Bell's brother, the one in the documentary who went out to California with his wife, committed suicide?

I did not hear that, but it is terrible news. I have made several posts here listing all of the deaths in sports related to doping, and some people have criticized me for including suicides, when I think this is another example showing a dark side of doping some people would rather ignore. Just like society, actually.

 

[Polish]

Anyway the Wind Blows

Of course there is right and wrong but ultimately we are our own judge of right and wrong whilst rules and laws adjudicate in the wider world.

Good point - yes, sometimes we are our own judge. And jury too...
Maybe Miss Piggy sings it best...

"Nothing really matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters...
Nothing really matters...

BUT MOI!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqY
.
.
.

 

[ak-zaaf]

http://www.nrc.nl/international/Features/article2424647.ece/Chinese_bookie_guarantees_all_matches_on_website_are_fixed

I'm thinking of joining that website

 

[Galic Ho]

Workingclasshero, you are right. I was trying to remember which R named Brazilian it was, Rivaldo or Romario. Did a quick google search and saw Romario's name. I know it wasn't Cafu, De Silva, Ronaldino or Ronaldo. I was too lazy to read the article and check (I assumed it was who I wanted).

Hehehe, I was only joking but it was in overtime
But what do you mean with Argentina in '78? Dutch people often say they gave it to Argentina and if Rensenbrink would have made a goal in stead of hitting the post they would have played injury time until Argentina equalized. I don't really believe in that.
Since I'm Dutch I might add Brasil got an offside goal against Holland in the '94 world cup QF's and Holland wasn't given an obvious penalty in the 119th minute of the '98 semis again against Brasil

What I meant was that take the 86 World Cup win aside and assume the match was 1-1 against England and then hypothesize that the game could have ended very differently. Hence Argentina don't make the final so they don't win the World Cup, it doesn't change the fact they've won a world cup in 1978. However you are correct about the 78 final and that missed opportunity that hit the post. I also don't buy the "IF" explanations except when an official rules in an incorrect manner that changes the match. Like Zissou and his headbutt on Materasi (mind you I'd have done the same, Materasi is a dirty punk). No official saw it but he was red carded. Illegal and wrong by the ref, they have to have viewed it, players testimonies do not matter, no matter how dirty Zidane's actions.

And I know football is more corrupt than any other sport. It's the biggest sport in the world financially, that's the only point you have to make.
Blatter buys his seat, the UEFA does everything in it's power to avoid another Porto-Monaco CL final, Italy got the last World Cup handed to them against the Aussies, the Koreans were so nice they got a free pass to the Semis in '02...and on and on and on.

Actually most aussies who support football and know a thing or two (those who don't jump on the bandwagon when it is appropriate) think Lucas Neill was a moron for sliding in the box. Legs out heading to Grosso's shins and he slides early and missed the ball. Big no no. Final minute of injury time against Italy. Madness. Nobody gifts the biggest diving nation in the world such an opportunity. Poor referee had little choice. Hope Van Persie gets back for Arsenal and World Cup duties. Great player. Why is it that of all the Dutch coaches available we (Australia) get the least attack oriented as our national coach? Verbeek must be the only Dutch coach who doesn't love his team to attack. Van Basten, Rijkaard, Hiddink, they are all dynamic and have flair. Maybe its the dollars on offer?

To whomever posted the link promoting 'Bigger, Faster, Stronger' thanks. I'll keep an eye out for it. I was never aware of its existence. Looks interesting.