The holistic powers of Tenerife

[hrotha]

What, all 4000 of them? Unlikely. Your recent posts speak for themselves.

There's a search function. Good luck finding anything, though, since this is all just in your head. Seriously, this is stupid. Screw it.

 

[Escarabajo]

What, all 4000 of them? Unlikely. Your recent posts speak for themselves.

hrotha is not a fanboy. He is just very objective poster. that's why he usually takes the neutral position. Don't confuse that. Might not agree with that but that's how he is.

 

[laziali]

hrotha is not a fanboy. He is just very objective poster. that's why he usually takes the neutral position. Don't confuse that. Might not agree with that but that's how he is.

Maybe, but ...

My original reason for thinking Hrotha was a fanboy was his statement:

"Still, "a known doper trains there, therefore he trains there to dope, therefore everyone who trains there does so to dope"... Not very solid logic, man" in response to my comment on Vinokourov (that's right, Vino) training in Tenerife and denying contact with Ferrari.

Hrotha displayed naivety in thinking pro cyclists who value a "clean" reputation would go anywhere near Tenerife. This was compounded by his later statement "The reasons why Tenerife is a great place to do altitude training, doping aside, have already been mentioned. If you don't buy them there's not much else I can say. Apparently, just training in Spain is enough to blemish your resume around here."

 

[hrotha]

You misunderstood that completely. I wasn't defending Vino at all, I was saying he might be like Landis, who wasn't working with Ferrari at Phonak because at that point he felt he had learned enough from him to manage his own doping by himself. How is that defending Vino?

 

[laziali]

You misunderstood that completely. I wasn't defending Vino at all, I was saying he might be like Landis, who wasn't working with Ferrari at Phonak because at that point he felt he had learned enough from him to manage his own doping by himself. How is that defending Vino?

I think we are just missing one another's point. Fair enough tho, I retract the fanboy accusation.

Moving on, one wonders whether Landis made the right call by ditching Ferrari - might have been the difference between beating and failing that fateful test.

 

[khardung la]

I would assume that it would be harder/more expensive to send someone to test on the Island than if someone were on the mainland, (I am guessing they don't have a testing team based there) and with resources being limited you are less likely to be tested when there than if you were training on the mainland.

No. Tenerife is not a small remote island in the South Pacific, it has 1 million inhabitants plus some millions of tourists a year (and the neighboring Gran Canaria more than another million also). It has for example a university with a university clinic.

Technicians from all over Spain send the tests collected in all Spain to the National Sports Agency’s Doping Control Laboratory, and they do that according to criteria that have nothing to do with a mainland/island consideration, or how much it costs to travel there. Namely, where the athletes are and where the sport events take place.

 

[42x16ss]

If you ever get the chance to go to Tenerife, take it and you will understand why so many pros train there. Once you get out on the open road there are climbs galore, no traffic and great roads. Plus the place is absolutely stunning, with plenty of places to stay and beaches to lie on.

If I had to choose between training in the wet, cold and snow in Europe or great warm sun on a beautiful island like Tenerife I know what I'll be choosing . As mentioned before, the dodgy doctors are probably just going where the riders are, and having a bit of a holiday they're at it.

 

[Winterfold]

Tenerife is simply a great place to go bike riding - and in February tens of thousands of chiquitas dress up as mice and cats for Mardi Gras.

What's not to like?

 

[Duartista]

Great comedy, especially from laziali. If someone wanted to send up the clinic, they couldn't do much better than this.

Hrotha displayed naivety in thinking pro cyclists who value a "clean" reputation would go anywhere near Tenerife.

DS: Right lads, I've organised a training camp in Tenerife.

Clean rider: No way, I'm not going anyway near that place, people on the internet will think I'm a doper.

 

[laziali]

Great comedy, especially from laziali. If someone wanted to send up the clinic, they couldn't do much better than this.



DS: Right lads, I've organised a training camp in Tenerife.

Clean rider: No way, I'm not going anyway near that place, people on the internet will think I'm a doper.

.............

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

No. Tenerife is not a small remote island in the South Pacific, it has 1 million inhabitants plus some millions of tourists a year (and the neighboring Gran Canaria more than another million also). It has for example a university with a university clinic.

Technicians from all over Spain send the tests collected in all Spain to the National Sports Agency’s Doping Control Laboratory, and they do that according to criteria that have nothing to do with a mainland/island consideration, or how much it costs to travel there. Namely, where the athletes are and where the sport events take place.

There is no need to be so defensive. Relatively speaking Tenerife is remote to the rest of Europe and riders have been known to favour remote locations to charge up. We also know that cost of testing/testers is one of the main barriers to more rigorous testing. We also know (from Landis and others) the lengths riders will go to avoid being tested.

How many technicians etc are there in Spain and how many are there on Tenerife?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Tenerife's Powers Revisited

The UCI's American propaganda machine VeloNews is at it again reporting on Sky's Bradley Wiggins Tenerife preparation.

VeloNews and Sean Yates would have you believe just sleeping at 2165m and riding around Tenerife turns Wiggins and his support riders into TdF winners.

What takes the article over the top is two of Yate's quotes,

"99 percent of time the training is harder than the racing."

"I guess Lance [Armstrong] was the pioneer in training to race,"

Indeed....

I won't directly link to the story because it's so awful. Bare text is here for as long as it lasts: http://disposablewebpage.com/turn?page=HRlrEArzMj

 

[Polish]

The UCI's American propaganda machine VeloNews is at it again reporting on Sky's Bradley Wiggins Tenerife preparation.

VeloNews and Sean Yates would have you believe just sleeping at 2165m and riding around Tenerife turns Wiggins and his support riders into TdF winners.

What takes the article over the top is two of Yate's quotes,

"99 percent of time the training is harder than the racing."

"I guess Lance [Armstrong] was the pioneer in training to race,"

Indeed....

I won't directly link to the story because it's so awful. Search for the phrase "wiggins arrives at the dauphine from outer space"

I realize it is impossible for you to comprehend the truth in Yate's quotes, but that does not make them less true.

Lance WAS the pioneer. Training IS harder.

ESPECIALLY in a clean peloton. Training hard but not overtraining. Getting your fitness/form to peak precisely at the right time.

SKY is following the winning formula. The "genius formula".
Evans too probably. Hopefully Andy.

 

[Benotti69]

The UCI's American propaganda machine VeloNews is at it again reporting on Sky's Bradley Wiggins Tenerife preparation.

VeloNews and Sean Yates would have you believe just sleeping at 2165m and riding around Tenerife turns Wiggins and his support riders into TdF winners.

What takes the article over the top is two of Yate's quotes,

"99 percent of time the training is harder than the racing."

"I guess Lance [Armstrong] was the pioneer in training to race,"

Indeed....

I won't directly link to the story because it's so awful. Search for the phrase "wiggins arrives at the dauphine from outer space"

Will we see Wiggin's with a higher cadence?

Has he been on his bike 8 hours a day?

Does he have a huge heart and Vo2max?

Did he have a life threatening illness that changed his body?

Wooowoooo here comes the blue sky train this july

 

[thehog]

"wiggins arrives at the dauphine from outer space"

The obvious reference to ET is too much!

I guess the UCI have decided the winner already.

 

[Raul Ramaya]

I realize it is impossible for you to comprehend the truth in Yate's quotes, but that does not make them less true.

Lance WAS the pioneer. Training IS harder.

ESPECIALLY in a clean peloton. Training hard but not overtraining. Getting your fitness/form to peak precisely at the right time.

SKY is following the winning formula. The "genius formula".
Evans too probably. Hopefully Andy.

So are you a Pro? Ex-Pro? I'm not but I weight higher the opinions of those who are. Tilford has a post today expressing his, ahh, skepticism. So you think he just getting crusty and irritable in his old age?

 

[red_flanders]

Training IS harder.

That's patently absurd.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The obvious reference to ET is too much!

I guess the UCI have decided the winner already.

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Polish]

That's patently absurd.

If you want to WIN the TdF, the training IS harder.
That is what Yates and me are talking about.

Doubt if it is "patently true". If it were, Lance would be sueing people for patent infringement. Although, I can't think of anyone Lance would have a case against. Evans and Wiggins are getting close to crossing the line. Hard to tell with Andy. Maybe. Bluffing.

 

[therhodeo]

Training IS harder.

I think mentally that is true. Takes alot of mental toughness that racing doesn't necessarily take.

 

[131313]

What takes the article over the top is two of Yate's quotes,

"99 percent of time the training is harder than the racing."

"I guess Lance [Armstrong] was the pioneer in training to race,"

While I share your disdain for Velonews, training can be harder than racing. It depends on the racing, and it depends on the training. I think most riders get more fit when training than racing, though it also depends on the rider.

To the second part, it was hardly pioneered by Armstrong. Ever since LeMond managed to do it, the top Grand Tour contenders have been racing less and training more. More riders would do it if they had that as an option.

What Lance pioneered was spinning current reality into something he "invented" in order to obfuscate a vary uncomfortable truth.

 

[Polish]

I think mentally that is true. Takes alot of mental toughness that racing doesn't necessarily take.

Definitely true. The mental toughness and discipline required of training to win any sport's premier event is always harder than the event itself.

Not eating that cheesburger. Getting up early and rested to train on that rainny cold morning months before the event. 24/7 focus month after month after month after month. If the event is harder than the training you put in - you will not win. That's what Yates is talking about. True duh.

 

[DirtyWorks]

While I share your disdain for Velonews, training can be harder than racing. It depends on the racing, and it depends on the training. I think most riders get more fit when training than racing, though it also depends on the rider.

To the second part, it was hardly pioneered by Armstrong. Ever since LeMond managed to do it, the top Grand Tour contenders have been racing less and training more. More riders would do it if they had that as an option.

What Lance pioneered was spinning current reality into something he "invented" in order to obfuscate a vary uncomfortable truth.

While I agree with what you are saying in principal. But in practice they are still trying to make the myth work, this time with Wiggo including the obligatory reference back to Wonderboy. It is so formulaic it's easy to spot.

Looking backwards it seems to me that's how they built the myth. The principals/facts aren't arguable in many ways. For example, training can be harder in some ways. For once, a Polish post above this one has legitimate examples. But as soon as you look into the specifics, it gets ridiculous as other posts have mentioned. Perhaps my historical favorite example being the Ed Coyle "research." This time Yates claims Tenerife has some magic that any number of places with lots of climbing and mild climate in Europe don't. It's ridiculous!

Either way, it reminds me of a young guy I just saw driving a very well preserved 70's Pontiac Firebird complete with calculator wrist watch on the arm hanging out the window. Both are the definition of irrelevance and borderline comic.

I say look for a Chris Carmichael vacation package to "train like the pros" for only $10,000 a week coming soon to a resort destination far, far away.

 

[blackcat]

Wigans is gonna win this year too.

If they can bring Froome, Porte, Rogers, Lovqvist, BH, as his domestiques some shouldering a little like BH of the work for the last 10km for Frodo, he still has a stronger support than BMC.

 

[Polish]

While I share your disdain for Velonews, training can be harder than racing. It depends on the racing, and it depends on the training. I think most riders get more fit when training than racing, though it also depends on the rider.

To the second part, it was hardly pioneered by Armstrong. Ever since LeMond managed to do it, the top Grand Tour contenders have been racing less and training more. More riders would do it if they had that as an option.

What Lance pioneered was spinning current reality into something he "invented" in order to obfuscate a vary uncomfortable truth.

While I agree that Greg was the pioneer of focusing on the TdF and helped usher in the Big Money - I disgree that Greg was the pioneer of effective training techniques. Probably just the opposite in my book.

And as far as the "uncomfortable truth"?
Yes, I agree that many ARE some people uncomfortable with the truth.