The Landis Affair - Part 2

[buckwheat]

Yes I actually read the interview.

Did YOU actually read the interview too?

It is almost entirely Anti-Lance.

Sure, Greg says "Lance" once and "me" or "I" 15 times.....
deceptive egotistical vindictive vendetta

Yes because most of us know that Ped's and LA are synonymous.

 

[bobs nob]

Drat! The Troll, ManCrush, FanBoy namecalling stratagem.
I should have known better than to criticize Mr LeMond.
Curse you Race Radio, you win.

Posts like that are what separate Polish from the other LA fans. Please email this to every LA fan club member that posts here.

 

[buckwheat]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

But many others do not find friends in deceptive egotistical vindictive vendettas.

Hopefully other riders will stand up in defense of Pro Cycling.

Roche and Delgado have already weighed in against the so called "BloodBath" that is aimed at Lance, but will spill over to hurt all of Cycling.

Eddy needs to lead the way. Big Mig needs to comment too.
King Kelly. Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!

Yeah, he'll be campaigning with Ferrari.

When Andy Hampsten takes up your cause I may start to think there is something to what you say.

 

[rata de sentina]

what it says about my personality is that i'm skeptical of everyone. what's the alternative, blind faith?

But do you yourself in your own life operate purely for self-interest? If not, then surely you must acknowledge the alternative is possible in others? Personally I'm happy to reserve my judgement and not to rush to it. Overall I am very happy to observe and enjoy the current entertainment.

 

[buckwheat]

what it says about my personality is that i'm skeptical of everyone. what's the alternative, blind faith? that's hasn't worked too great for cycling so far.

for GL it may be altruistic or it may be self interest. it appears to me to be a bit of both and there's nothing wrong with that. the worst thing would be to pretend it's not there and to hold him in too high a regard. i applaud GL's bravery. i think if he is tactful he could have a valuable role in reform however my enthusiasm is tempered and my expectations realistic.

I'm the opposite.

I trust most people until they betray that trust.

LeMond has been proven to be trustworthy regarding cycling.

 

[Boeing]

I just want to watch bikes go up hill 5 days in July. Then gut the sport.

I hope they save this ****e for August

 

[Oldman]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

But many others do not find friends in deceptive egotistical vindictive vendettas.

Hopefully other riders will stand up in defense of Pro Cycling.

Roche and Delgado have already weighed in against the so called "BloodBath" that is aimed at Lance, but will spill over to hurt all of Cycling.

Eddy needs to lead the way. Big Mig needs to comment too.
King Kelly. Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!

What is there left to defend? Lemond's comments and support of Landis' disclosures definitely play into his history with LA. Anyone would be hard-pressed not to admit that. Your apparent dismissal of the Whole Thing as a petty vendetta is a wasted response. Let's all see what USADA guys find. In the meantime the state of Pro Cycling is rightfully in the toilet. Try to help with a solution instead of ignoring it.

 

[Nick777]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

But many others do not find friends in deceptive egotistical vindictive vendettas.

Hopefully other riders will stand up in defense of Pro Cycling.

Roche and Delgado have already weighed in against the so called "BloodBath" that is aimed at Lance, but will spill over to hurt all of Cycling.

Eddy needs to lead the way. Big Mig needs to comment too.
King Kelly. Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!

Who cares what these two have to say? It would be great to see a clean sport - if peoples' toes get crushed along the way, so be it.

 

[Escarabajo]

What is there left to defend? Lemond's comments and support of Landis' disclosures definitely play into his history with LA. Anyone would be hard-pressed not to admit that. Your apparent dismissal of the Whole Thing as a petty vendetta is a wasted response. Let's all see what USADA guys find. In the meantime the state of Pro Cycling is rightfully in the toilet. Try to help with a solution instead of ignoring it.

+1.

I don't care what Roche or Delgado (they are bias) or Merck or anyone for that matter have to say. Let's try to fix Pro-Cycling.

 

[lean mean &green]

As far as personal interest vs business interest goes, it would have been in Greg's best interest financially to STFU and play the omerta game. But he didn't....he has constantly pushed the point about doping. I think his efforts to recover some ground against LA/trek through law suits have to be seen in the context of the financial sacrifices he knowingly made when publicly commenting on doping.

i think GL's self-interest is mostly about setting the facts straight and securing his legacy. i think he's frustrated that his success was cut short and his achievements have been brushed aside by a generation of PED users. i think he want's his proper place in history and don't think financial gain has much to do with it. i don't fault him for this one bit.

at the same time i also think he'd like to see a cleaner sport for the same reasons most of us do. he's genuinely passionate about the sport of cycling and it's in everyone's best interests to move toward clean competition.

both are occurring at the same time. i'd guess it's about 50/50.

 

[janus1969]

i think GL's self-interest is mostly about setting the facts straight and securing his legacy. i think he's frustrated that his success was cut short and his achievements have been brushed aside by a generation of PED users.

Yeah, because PEDs were NOT in use prior...

I'm fairly certain that GL took PEDs, too, but either they were allowed at the time or they were "vitamin injections" given to him by the team doctor for plausible deniability. I guess I'm MORE cynical than most posting here because I idolized GL as much as anyone in the US during his career and the more I look into it, the more disingenuous they ALL appear now.

However, since he's supporting the vocal here, I'm sure I'm wrong and he's a saint who is doing everything for the good of the sport...

 

[goober]

Drat! The Troll, ManCrush, FanBoy namecalling stratagem.
I should have known better than to criticize Mr LeMond.
Curse you Race Radio, you win.

Polish - I do agree with Race Radio that there is only one line specifically targeted at Lance; but, like I said in my original post he can't help but poke at Lance when he claims to be doing this for cycling. Also, I honestly think Race Radio has a man crush on LeMond and is hiding from coming out of the closet.

 

[MacRoadie]

I'm fairly certain that GL took PEDs, too, but either they were allowed at the time or they were "vitamin injections" given to him by the team doctor for plausible deniability.

"Fairly certain" based on absolutely no empirical evidence, and a copious amount of pure speculation?

 

[Race Radio]

Fanyboy babble

Translation: The UCI, other riders, various Feds, teams, are OK to question......but never question the myth or the groupies get mad.

 

[goober]

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[Anonymous]

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[goober]

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[redtreviso]

"Fairly certain" based on absolutely no empirical evidence, and a copious amount of pure speculation?

A much more reasonable speculation is that Lance Armstrong was a roided up teenager long before he ever traded in his speedo for some chamois.

 

[Oldman]

A much more reasonable speculation is that Lance Armstrong was a roided up teenager long before he ever traded in his speedo for some chamois.

This thread left the rails when everyone started speculating on each player's motives and the motive of those that would defend or attack them and the secret pseudo-sexual implications of that support and the position they'd assume....

So, about Landis' accusations and the USADA case; no new disclosures mean anything/nothing?

 

[janus1969]

"Fairly certain" based on absolutely no empirical evidence, and a copious amount of pure speculation?

I wouldn't call it pure speculation, though I can only say he was on teams that were either directly implicated (PDM) or suspected...and that there were PEDs that weren't outlawed by the UCI but were by other bodies at the time (think Delgado's positive)...

Do I have proof? Nope...do I think that claiming you're pure in a sport that created the modern PED phenomena smacks of falsehood? Yeah...he's pure as the driven slush, just like his contemporaries and the modern cyclists...

 

[MacRoadie]

I wouldn't call it pure speculation, though I can only say he was on teams that were either directly implicated (PDM) or suspected...and that there were PEDs that weren't outlawed by the UCI but were by other bodies at the time (think Delgado's positive)...

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
n.
1.
a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

con·jec·ture (kn-jkchr)
n.
1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork:

You tell me...

 

[Hugh Januss]

You tell me...

I don't know how pure it is, but it sure is speculation.

 

[Race Radio]

I wouldn't call it pure speculation, though I can only say he was on teams that were either directly implicated (PDM) or suspected

PDM? You mean the team he left because he saw that they were going to roll out a team based doping program? What about Paul Köchli's teams have been
suspect? The fact that he searched out clean riders like Hampsten, Lemond make him suspect?

Pure speculation supported by no evidence or even rumor.

 

[Benotti69]

....

I'm fairly certain that GL took PEDs, too, but either they were allowed at the time or they were "vitamin injections" given to him by the team doctor for plausible deniability....

i would imagine that since GL has been on LA's case for quite some years before Landis spilled the beans, i think it highley likely that someone out there if they knew that GL did 'things' back when they were 'alllowed' but not anymore we would have heard about it as no doubt somebody would have made money out of speaking out....

I imagine LA/Hog tried their damnedest to find someone to spill the beans...

But as we have not heard a peep out of former riders, DSs, UCI or other speaks louder than any thing...wouldn't you agree.

 

[buckwheat]

love....

This thread left the rails when everyone started speculating on each player's motives and the motive of those that would defend or attack them and the secret pseudo-sexual implications of that support and the position they'd assume....

soft as an easy chair.......