Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[AmRacer]

First of all, Pogacar is not 5 years younger, but 3.
Second, Van Der Poel started to ride monuments in 2019, just as Pogacar.
Third, Van Der Poel won 3 different monuments + worlds. Pogacar didn't won worlds.
Fourth, Pogacar won 5 other classics, Van Der Poel won 6
Fifth, Van Der Poel won 22 one-day races, Pogacar 13
And sixth, I don't give a damn who's on track to do what in his career, I can only speak what they have done until now.

How many one day races did they do?

 

[Blanco]

How many one day races did they do?

I don't know, you do the math. I'm pretty sure both have high percentage, and in that cases who has the greater number gets the edge.

 

[topcat]

First of all, Pogacar is not 5 years younger, but 3.
Second, Van Der Poel started to ride monuments in 2019, just as Pogacar.
Third, Van Der Poel won 3 different monuments + worlds. Pogacar didn't won worlds.
Fourth, Pogacar won 5 other classics, Van Der Poel won 6
Fifth, Van Der Poel won 22 one-day races, Pogacar 13
And sixth, I don't give a damn who's on track to do what in his career, I can only speak what they have done until now.

Allez Blanco

 

[AmRacer]

I don't know, you do the math. I'm pretty sure both have high percentage, and in that cases who has the greater number gets the edge.

Teddy does more stage racing, so one could argue he builds more fatigue

 

[Blanco]

Teddy does more stage racing, so one could argue he builds more fatigue

We could go on and on with this, but the fact is that Mathieu Van Der Poel has more wins, more big wins, more big classics, more podiums, more top 10's in one-day races. In fact I can't find one single parameter in which Pogacar has the edge.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We could go on and on with this, but the fact is that Mathieu Van Der Poel has more wins, more big wins, more big classics, more podiums, more top 10's in one-day races. In fact I can't find one single parameter in which Pogacar has the edge.

Pogacar is way better in hilly classics. Dude, can you read? Pogacar is one of the best in cobbled classics too and last year worlds he was clearly affcted by the fatigue (yes, he rides GT's to win, not to prep other races).

 

[AmRacer]

We could go on and on with this, but the fact is that Mathieu Van Der Poel has more wins, more big wins, more big classics, more podiums, more top 10's in one-day races. In fact I can't find one single parameter in which Pogacar has the edge.

More wins? Nah.
Poggi has a chance to catch up, LBL and Lombardia.

 

[DNP-Old]

More wins? Nah.
Poggi has a chance to catch up, LBL and Lombardia.

This post makes 0 sense.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Pogacar has won 5 monuments to Van der Poel’s 6+Worlds, at 5 years younger, the same total number of different monuments, and has a similar number of non monument classics wins. He is probably on track to win more total monuments in his career. Or do the monuments with real climbs not matter?

5 years younger is no argument. Van der Poel's road career started way later. He effectively switched fully since 2019. That is the crazy part. They have a relatively same start to their pro road careers

 

[Blanco]

More wins? Nah.
Poggi has a chance to catch up, LBL and Lombardia.

We can continue then, no?

 

[AmRacer]

We can continue then, no?

Yes sir, of course.

 

[AmRacer]

One rider trains only for the biggest one day races
The other rider trains for same races and GT's.

 

[topcat]

Serge Blanco getting some backup against the Pogacar fatwah.

 

[Froome]

5 years younger is no argument. Van der Poel's road career started way later. He effectively switched fully since 2019. That is the crazy part. They have a relatively same start to their pro road careers

Van der Poel is a part time cycling road rider.

Yeah, 5 years younger is no argument, because it also matters when a rider started at high level.

Look at Quintana and Roglic. They are 34 years.

Roglic is more young than Quintana because he started more later on a high level.

Quintana appeared very young, but when he entered the 30s he started to decline.
Roglic is still at a high level.

 

[Blanco]

Pogacar is way better in hilly classics. Dude, can you read? Pogacar is one of the best in cobbled classics too and last year worlds he was clearly affcted by the fatigue (yes, he rides GT's to win, not to prep other races).

Then we can declare him being the best hilly classics rider of the peloton. Is that ok?
And who rides where and what before something, I would just leave that discussion aside...

 

[Froome]

One rider trains only for the biggest one day races
The other rider trains for same races and GT's.

Van der poel trains for one day races, mountain bike races and cyclocross.

He is just a part time cycling road rider, and Pogacar and the other riders are very lucky about that, because if he focus only on cycling road, it would be very scary for them.

 

[proffate]

Arguing over whether MvDP or Pog is better is pointless. Clearly they have different talents. The argument is only about which talents are more "important" which is something only the viewer can decide for themselves. Might as well argue whether green or blue is a more important color.

 

[Froome]

Arguing over whether MvDP or Pog is better is pointless. Clearly they have different talents. The argument is only about which talents are more "important" which is something only the viewer can decide for themselves. Might as well argue whether green or blue is a more important color.

The debate over who is the best can only be about who is the best in one day races. Overall it's impossible to compare who is the better rider.

There's not a best rider in the world at the moment. There's a group of 3 to 6 riders who are the best riders in the world.

 

[Purito1991]

In 5 years we will see who is the better rider overall.
But deep down even the biggest van der poel fans already know today, that pogacar is the better rider.
At one day races they are more less the same. But Pogacar is also one of the two best stage racer in the world.

 

[Froome]

In 5 years we will see who is the better rider overall.
But deep down even the biggest van der poel fans already know today, that pogacar is the better rider.
At one day races they are more less the same. But Pogacar is also one of the two best stage racer in the world.

How can you compare overall if van der poel just does one day races, and Pogacar just does cycling road and not mountain bike and cyclocross?

You can compare just in one day races, nothing more.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The dilemma with the discussion is that some people put a lot of weight into CX and MTB and others are only focusing on road.

When one have the point of view that Cx/MTB is irrelevant in this section of the forum it makes sense to talk about “the best road cyclist” and “the best cyclist” as the same.

With that point of view one cannot look away from Pogacar being the best. VDP is absolutely fantastic, but is still “only” a clear second in my eyes and it’s no shame to be second to what I think is the best cyclist in the last 35 years.

 

[Spine Concept]

The dilemma with the discussion is that some people put a lot of weight into CX and MTB and others are only focusing on road.

When one have the point of view that Cx/MTB is irrelevant in this section of the forum it makes sense to talk about “the best road cyclist” and “the best cyclist” as the same.

With that point of view one cannot look away from Pogacar being the best. VDP is absolutely fantastic, but is still “only” a clear second in my eyes and it’s no shame to be second to what I think is the best cyclist in the last 35 years.

You cannot "just" ignore CX/MTB though as it obviously takes away from Mathieu focusing 100% on the road and to venture into improving in other disciplines on the road (TT's, Climbing). His schedule in the past years (especially in the last Olympic year) was insane.

If you can use the "Pogi is the best in his specialty" argument for him than you can certainly use the CX/MTB argument for Mathieu. You simply cannot ignore it. What's more, it has also "impeded" Mathieu from switching to the road earlier...

Having said the above, it's funny how "accumulated fatigue" can be an argument for Pogi but not for Mathieu.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah nah I can't give it to MvdP after he got beaten by Pogacar in de Ronde. The Worlds route was also absurdly perfect for Van der Poel, and Pogi, gassed as he was after the Tour, still got a podium.

Pogacar completely dominates the hard hilly monuments and is still top 3 in the easiest ones.

 

[Spine Concept]

At the end of the day I'm a fan of both Pogi and Mathieu because of their riding style. I'd rather watch a rider go balls to the wall and break the race open at the earliest possible moment instead of just riding defensively and waiting until the last possible moment to attack.

We should just enjoy them both and be happy that we're alive in the VdP-Pogi era.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

You cannot "just" ignore CX/MTB though as it obviously takes away from Mathieu focusing 100% on the road and to venture into improving in other disciplines on the road (TT's, Climbing). His schedule in the past years (especially in the last Olympic year) was insane.

If you can use the "Pogi is the best in his specialty" argument for him than you can certainly use the CX/MTB argument for Mathieu. You simply cannot ignore it. What's more it has also "impeded" Mathieu from switching to the road earlier...

I am a very big fan of Mathieu for what he’s doing at the road and I have no problem with ignoring the results he’s having in MTB/Cyclocross, they mean basically nothing to me as I don’t follow these sports more than “oh Mathieu won WC again, he’s such a great athlete”.

I think it’s fair to limit the discussion to road cycling on the road forum if one want that.
The important thing is that the people discussing are being clear, so you don’t end up with a discussion where people are discussing different things.