The official CBS 60 minutes thread

[Allen H]

A notable missing element was who the other rider was that was in the hotel room with Tyler in Valencia getting their blood extracted.

Looks to me like they will all sing.

Dave.

Maybe they already have - to the grand jury.

 

[webvan]

Wow, Chris E.! Nice job on the transcript of the letter.

Nice job but the letter is on the facts4lance website : http://facts4lance.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/letter-to-mr-herman.pdf - were you able to to decipher the letter by the head of the lab that mentions the suspicious/consistent with EPO test, thanks!

 

[Cobber]

For those that missed it, replay of relevant 60 minutes segments here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/22/lance-armstrong-doping-60-minutes_n_865331.html

 

[Granville57]

60 Minutes content

I don't understand all the confusion over what, where, when, in regards to the broadcast.

cbsnews.com almost always offers the content online immediately after a show airs.
Unless you are unable to access this from your location, it's all here.

The full transcript of the interview with relevant links throughout

The video as shown on TV. PART 1

The video as shown on TV. PART 2


Web Extras, not included in the TV broadcast

Scott Pelley discusses the process of interviewing Tyler

Who is Tyler Hamilton?

Starving for the sport

Tackling the Tour de France

Frankie Andreu interview

Interesting misc...
CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent, Armen Keteyian. Pre-broadcast perspective.

 

[menlo_guy]

It was funny to hear the code word for EPO was "Edgar Allan Poe". I can imagine the conversation now.

Tyler: So uhh ... I was wondering if I could borrow some books?
Lance: Sure. Which ones you need?
Tyler: I've heard good things about Edgar Allan Poe
Lance: I'll send some copies tomorrow, along with your white lunch bag.

Maybe testosterone was the "Old Testament" or "Tess of the d'urbervilles"

 

[Ferminal]

Interesting misc...
CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent, Armen Keteyian. Pre-broadcast perspective.

The grand jury proceedings, Keteyian added, "could wrap up as early as next month. But I'm having a hard time, as (are) a lot of other people, trying to figure out what the government is really trying to accomplish here.

"Lance last raced in 2005 in the Tour. He's been retired for a number of years now. And they're not even going to get him on doping charges. It's gonna be something to do with defrauding his sponsors for things that happened in another country. So, it's gonna be very interesting, if there is an indictment, and that's a big if, just where this goes."

CBS has no credibility.

Although it shows how successful Comeback 3.0 was.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Current Summary

For those following along and just checking in,

1. Mr. Hamilton corroborates Wonderboy's doping.
2. Mr. Andreau replays EPO frustration.
3. Wonderboy's Tour de Suisse positive revisited and finally explained correctly.
4. UCI makes positive go away. (An allegation we've all suspected happened.)
5. UCI arranges meeting with Wonderboy and Swiss lab boss. (!)
6. Two payments to UCI discussed. The first happening after the TdS positive. The second years later with no rhyme or reason attributed. Not new to The Clinic.
7. Letter passes from the UCI through team armstrong to CBS regarding TdS doping postives. Why this simple custody chain isn't raising any warning flags is simply more denial. I would not be surprised to discover Weisel and Johnson blind copied.
8. Content of the letter from the UCI opens a new can of worms for/about the UCI's role in handling positives.

Thanks to 60 minutes we now can confirm:
-Swiss Labs are right in the thick of the evaporating positives action. Italian and Spanish lab bosses are equally suspicious.
-The UCI is, in fact, making positives go away.
-Finally(!) they make the association between USA Track and Field's career doper and Team Armstrong.
-The second payment from Team Armstrong to the UCI is unexplained. The first being the payoff for making the TdS positive go away.

Pat and Hein have some 'splainin to do. If the IOC does nothing we can reasonably infer that the IOC is enabling doping. Finally, the story is reaching INTO the Federation. Needs to go further up the chain INTO the IOC. Or else, we'll have another Festina sequel in a few years.

 

[webvan]

Thanks for the summary. It's amazing that we had to wait for 60 minutes to find out about the JB/LA/Lab meeting in 2001 following the positive...I guess not too many people knew about it and it took the GJ asking the lab director directly to put that in the open.

I'm not totally clear when that "suspicious"/"consistent with EPO" letter is dated and who sent it to who?

 

[Granville57]

CBS content links...

"Lance last raced in 2005 in the Tour. He's been retired for a number of years now. And they're not even going to get him on doping charges. It's gonna be something to do with defrauding his sponsors for things that happened in another country. So, it's gonna be very interesting, if there is an indictment, and that's a big if, just where this goes."

CBS has no credibility.

Although it shows how successful Comeback 3.0 was.

This from the same man who claims at the beginning of the piece that he's been covering the TdF for "the past 5...7 years."

It's simply astounding how uninformed and out-of-the-loop these guys can seem.
I thought the 60 Minutes feature left much to be desired as well. This was their big "six month investigation"? Some of the apparent gaps of knowledge were bewildering.

Scott Pelley talked about blood doping in 2000 like it was some sort of revelation. Uh, 1984? Hullo????

I had a friend txt me after the broadcast: "Blood doping?! Some of the craziest S&#T I've ever heard of!"

Keep in mind, he's a highly educated guy who follows sports pretty keenly (baseball, NFL, NHL), but this blew his mind. The history and development of doping just isn't one of his hobbies. Lot's of people like that. Millions. The problem is, when 60 Minutes frames something like that in an extra-ordinary light, many people will dismiss it because it seems so implausible. Had they that put it properly in context with the history of the sport, it would have been much easier for the passing observer to believe it.

There was also this over-inflated remark, "Hamilton has told a story that may change the history of sports."
Really? Seriously? Because others haven't claimed much of the same? Books haven't been written about the dirty little secrets behind the scenes? Tyler will perhaps play a part in the overall, but there needs to be a helluva lot more to "change the history of sports."

I saw a lot of this in some of Floyd's interview from last year. Many times, the reporters seemed so shocked by the information, that they failed to address the underlying problem properly. They just can't relate to the matter-of-factness that comes from something so deeply woven into the culture of cycling.

 

[RdBiker]

Some of the evidence from the show just seems impossible to deny--I really don't see how Lance can walk away from this. Even if they smear Tyler as a totally unreliable lying cheat (and they will) how can Bruyneel and Armstrong explain meeting with the Swiss lab director? What'll they say about that? That they just liked the guy and wanted to hang out with him? I really can't wait until the trial starts.

There's a court case going on in Finland about doping in skiing (or actually it's about lying in court, but anyway) There's (in my mind) overwhelming evidence supporting the accusation that doping has been widely used in Finnish cross-country skiing. Most notably the former head coach has testified that he delivered doping products to athletes and oversaw the use of them.

However the outcome is very far from clear. Even though they have some concrete evidence it's mostly a word against word and at least in Finnish court that doesn't seem to be enough. I have no knowledge of how the US court system works but I'm not getting my hopes up before the final verdict is given.

 

[Granville57]

A couple of things that I DID find pretty compelling:

Talking about Andriol (testosterone) - in an "oil form"- take it like eye drops
"Armstrong squirted in my mouth, in a teammates mouth and my mouth"

Here we have the first report (that I'm aware of) of Lance actually administering PEDs to other riders. That's another transgression all its own.
(Tyler mentions "another rider" but we still don't know who that is. Fun times ahead.)

significant payments to Ferrari up till 2010

That sounds quite different from the simple friendly reunions that LieStrong has been using to explain away the admitted recent contact. "Significant payments." Indeed. Come to think of it: ANY recent payment to Ferrari should be seen as "significant."

Not sure if anyone else saw this but I just watched an episode of Outside the Lines (ESPN) where they interviewed Betsy Andreu. It of course rehashed the 'Hospital room' discussion, referenced EPO as "Liquid Gold" Etc. Seemed like something to wet our appetites for the CBS 60 minutes airing this evening.

(ESPN possibly to repeat the show/see it on line?!?)

I found this interview with Bonnie Ford, but I don't see the Betsy episode posted anywhere yet.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/columns/story?id=6572159

Outside The Lines airs on ESPN at @ 3:00pm EST throughout the week though.

 

[andy1234]

This was a bit like going to see a good film based on the trailer.
Then you realise that the best bit was the trailer.

It might be news to Joe Public though.

 

[webvan]

Disagreed, the 2001 TDS clarification and JB/LA/Lab meeting is a nugget.

 

[rhubroma]

I had to comment on the Overtime's website. Pelley was completely wrong in saying that Livestrong raises money for cancer research and medicine. Undermines the accomplishments of organizations such as the American Cancer Society.

And he made it seem like he was remorseful for having to sling mud on an "American hero", but had to for the sake of good journalism.

Yep. The Livestrong "charity" was given by the official US charity organization rating system a 3, which is very low in terms of transparency and in seeing that all the money gets directed to its supposed purpose. Plus there's Livestrong.org and Livestrong.com: one is non-profit the other is for profit, though to most people, which is which, has never been made clear. Thus they think they are donating to a non-profit fund raiser, when in fact they are making Lance richer.

Armstrong wasn't just a doper, but a bully and a corrupter, who has tried to ruin the lives of anybody who dared to defy him. This is why American journalism so often misinforms or doesn't tell people the entire truth, but mistifies reality, which is, of course, absolutely appalling, and which I can clearly see from having been emersed in European journalism all these years. For Armstrong was, in fact, as the top rider in the sport who also made cycling grow in the huge and rich US market, the big fish that was simply too big to be brought down.

For this reason he was able to have a positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour de Swiss covered up, and was surly the only rider capable of getting away with it. In fact all the other big names of the sport at the time, who were also his closest rivals and/or team mates, from Ullrich, to Basso, to Heras, to Landis, to Hamilton, to Vinoukorov, etc. have all either tested positive or been implicated in a doping scandal. This proves that the playing field wasn't level and in fact meant that someone was given preferential treatment by the governing body of cycling, the UCI. This is what the so called journalist Pelley should have told the American people, but didn't, both because of a lack of any journalistic integrity and simple perspicacity: which is even worse, because I think he's actually too stupid to get this fundamental point.

I only hope now, for the sake of these people who were victims of Lance's character bashing - from Greg Lemond, to Betsy Andreu and others - that they at least receive some just compensation for what the guy has put them through.

 

[BigBoat]

Lance's old postal/Disco guys are starting to rat him out...... Its somewhat hard to believe Lance will get a significant punishment from the FDA, but it certainly is embarrassing for his nearest & dearest to have to face this.

This was bound to happen at some point. We know Landis absolutely hates Lance, along with many other's like that old mechanic earlier in the week. Its all because Lance was such an arrogant *** over the years. If he hadnt been I doubt Lance's doping would ever have come to public light.

I wonder if Landis will go on 60 minutes or some other news program and tell the story about how Lance dumped his 800cc blood refill down the toilet in front of him after announcing the move to Phonak.

Hamilton's part II interview on 60 mins is still coming next week (follow up).

You dont see people ratting out guys like Indurain, Ullrich, or Landis.... Contador for that matter. Positive tests are one thing but its obvious that former "friends" of lance hate his guts and want him brought down. How come none of INdurain's ex teamates havent "come out" with allegations. Indurain after all had some incredibly doped rides!!

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The lab and UCI are both in Switzerland. There's some brown bagging going on, I wonder if the gnomes will be looking to see what went on, to say nothing of the meeting. Must be a bit embarrasing

The lab has got to have some sort of goverment authorisation.

Are the IOC or WADA are going to do something to the UCI?

Stay tuned.

This is going to snowball.....pass the popcorn, I love a good comedy

P.S. The lawsuit against Landis I presume is a dead duck.

The IOC won't do a thing. They love having cycling as the ginger stepchild to take the fall for everything, as long as no one asks any questions about everything else it works fine.

 

[BullsFan22]

Really, really impressed with TH and the whole interview/program that CBS conducted. I think for however much time they had, they did pretty darn good. There is still lot's work needed to be done to get Armstrong and his band convicted of whatever they are gonna be charged with, and I am not 100% sure that everything is gonna pan out as we (in the Clinic) envision it. If nothing else, it's great to see what we already thought of and it's great that TH opened like that, and this went out for everyone to see and hear. If this was hard for Tyler, it must be even more hard for George. Even Frankie was a bit uncomfortable, which is totally normal, these guys were all teammates and friends. I am just wondering what the consequences for Armstrong, Bruyneel and that whole organization (USPS/Discovery) will be if everything goes through as we think it might. I would also love to see and hear Phil, Paul, Bobke, Carmichael, Graham Watson, Ochowitz, Robin Williams, Ben Stiller, etc, etc. The money he got from those Nike/Trek/USPS/Discovery/Livestrong deals must be huge. I mean, think about it, having to pay for Ferrari, for the drugs, for the UCI...Could it be, that he actually took huge amounts of money from the supposed livestrong campaign?? Anyway, this is just picking up steam at the moment, I don't think this will sink a raft, this will sink the Titanic! I hope it goes all the way to home base and really cleans up the sport and hopefully McQuaid and Verbruggen get their share of the beatdown.

 

[ultimobici]

The IOC won't do a thing. They love having cycling as the ginger stepchild to take the fall for everything, as long as no one asks any questions about everything else it works fine.

I hadn't thought of it like that. Thanks.

 

[rata de sentina]

Bob Gosford uses CBS to go to town on LA TdU payments

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2011/05/23/dear-premier-mike-rann-its-time-to-talk-about-lance/

 

[The Valley]

I've just watched the stream of the video on the CBS website. Interesting to see the Armstrong camp's predictable response: come out with the "I've been tested 500 times" line, and attack the person making the claim. This has been the tactic for a long time now.

First, the "I've been tested hundreds of times so I can't be a doper, can I?" part of it - anyone who follows cycling knows that this is a joke, as the dopers were so far ahead of the testers as to render the testing useless. Bjarne Riis never tested positive, did he? Richard Virenque never tested positive. Johan Museuuw, David Millar, Tony Rominger, Erik Zabel - none of them tested positive (though some of them later admitted doping) but does anyone think they were clean riders? The absense of evidence does not imply evidence of absence.

Second, the Armstrong camp attacks Tyler Hamilton's credibility, trying to suggest that he's only making the claims in order to further himself and gain publicity as he has a book coming out soon. For this claim, we need to examine the opposite side of the coin - sure, it's a fair claim to say that Hamilton may gain some publicity on the back of this, and yes, it may help his book sales, but you also have to ask "what does he stand to lose".

In this case, by admitting to doping, he will lose his entire legacy as a cyclist - his victories, his Olympic gold medal, and his reputation. Now, weigh that up against potentially gaining some book sales and you can quickly see the scales tip. Does it make sense to throw away all those things for the sake of some increased book sales?

No.

 

[BullsFan22]

I've just watched the stream of the video on the CBS website. Interesting to see the Armstrong camp's predictable response: come out with the "I've been tested 500 times" line, and attack the person making the claim. This has been the tactic for a long time now.

First, the "I've been tested hundreds of times so I can't be a doper, can I?" part of it - anyone who follows cycling knows that this is a joke, as the dopers were so far ahead of the testers as to render the testing useless. Bjarne Riis never tested positive, did he? Richard Virenque never tested positive. Johan Museuuw, David Millar, Tony Rominger, Erik Zabel - none of them tested positive (though some of them later admitted doping) but does anyone think they were clean riders? The absense of evidence does not imply evidence of absence.

Second, the Armstrong camp attacks Tyler Hamilton's credibility, trying to suggest that he's only making the claims in order to further himself and gain publicity as he has a book coming out soon. For this claim, we need to examine the opposite side of the coin - sure, it's a fair claim to say that Hamilton may gain some publicity on the back of this, and yes, it may help his book sales, but you also have to ask "what does he stand to lose".

In this case, by admitting to doping, he will lose his entire legacy as a cyclist - his victories, his Olympic gold medal, and his reputation. Now, weigh that up against potentially gaining some book sales and you can quickly see the scales tip. Does it make sense to throw away all those things for the sake of some increased book sales?

No.

Well said. It's funny, MLB players like Palmeiro, McGwire, etc, were doing the same thing, and they were facing the law, essentiall in the spring of 2005. They were denying the same way Armstrong is doing now and has been for the past few years. They used things like "i've never, ever tested positive," or "i don't remember," or "i didn't know i was taking anything illegal," or "i misremember..' It's really amusing actually.

 

[thirteen]

The times are getting their revenge on Lance by the looks of it.

David Walsh gets an entire FULL PAGE IN THE MAIN NEWSPAPER TODAY, and a further half page in the sports section. This is a broadsheet on a sunday so a full page in the main newspaper is pretty serious coverage.

the text is available here (for those that couldn't get the paper):
http://shorttext.com/jqurzblrsyf

 

[Big GMaC]

http://shorttext.com/jqurzblrsyf

is the text of the walsh article

Edit: Late...

 

[Barrus]

Sorry guys, we can't allow transcripts from articles on here, unless they are provided for by the author or the original distributor/publisher, so don't post those links in the threads. Also links to scans, or posting scans is not allowed, in the case of the scans by TSF, there is not really a problem since they are not readable

 

[Benotti69]

seems even bono has been vocal;

"Bono, Armstrong’s “dear friend”, was moved to post a tweet to his starry pal some time ago: “Sometimes my friend, the lie is ugly but the truth is unbearable.”"

i doubt the truth will set a guy like Armstrong free. Narcissists never get it.