The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[Biological Entity]

.....

It's quite simple. If he really didn't see AS's problem, which is strange because he was coming to a stand still, it would have come over on the radio that Schleck is fiddling with his chain at the side of the road. At that point you sit up and tell the guys with you to wait. That's what Ulrich did for Armstrong.

But I think people are disappointed as well that we've been robbed of an exciting last.

 

[labratty]

Andy is still on his bike. He's not unclipped. And AC passes him on the left and never looks back.

That's what I saw in the video. Can someone not wearing AC goggles tell me what I am blind to or interjecting here so that I can be equally outraged at AC's sudden dishonorable behavior?

He is definitely well past before andy unclips. I have not seen a camera angle yet to know if DM and SS are past him as well but both the astana guys have probably 20 or 30 meters on him before he unclips. I would to see where the other 2 were.

So close to the top it is not odd for vino to backoff and let AS carry on, he can lurk back and get in the way of whoever si trying to respond.

 

[Arnout]

Menchov might feel differently about that which was my point. He and Sanchez were the major beneficiaries of gained time under this little drama.

Once again, they shouldn't be bothered. His Andyness himself said yesterday that he doesn't care about either Menchov or Sanchez. So why should they even consider waiting?

 

[ozymandias]

No one argues that Contador has to wait. It would, however, be a classy move and the TdF has a history of such respect and class. Contador chose not to follow in that tradition. Schleck just gained a lot of fans.

The Tour has its written rules and its unwritten rules. The written rules do not say that Contador has to wait. The unwritten rules say he must wait. The written rules apply to all riders. The unwritten rules apply to only those riders with a conscience, who cares about decency, fair play, and the 100+ years tradition of the Tour de France.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

One of my favourite tweets today, by Michel Kreder:

nice one!!

 

[Arnout]

the rule is you dont attack when yellow jersey is in trouble (crash,bike change,wheel change) or taking natural break ,doesnt matter if its chavanel or santa claus you just dont attack MJ...you can continue your previous pace but you dont jump out of the saddle and give it all

btw i doesnt have to be MJ,armstrong waited for ullrich after his crash (and vice versa)...ullrich came back LA attacked,but he showed respect for ullrich

So Cancellara should win the Tour. He was the first MJ and he was in trouble in the first mountainstage. They should've waited for him!

 

[VeloCity]

Andy's still on his bike but it is pretty obvious he has a mechanical problem. And yes, I think ACD noticed it when he went by ... it's a pretty easy thing to see in a race.

Probably, but how was AC to know that it wasn't just an unclipped pedal or something relatively minor? From the vid, I see AS attacking, Vino jumping after him, AC coming up fast behind Vino, AS dropped his chain and slowed dramatically (btw looked to me like AS hit a bump in the road which could've thrown his chain but otoh the "bump" could've just been the result of the chain coming off itself), AC riding around AS without looking back and just kept on going, probably assuming that Schleck was right behind him.

 

[menlo_guy]

I think Contador should have waited. He would have gained respect from everyone. And he still has the time trial on the 2nd to last stage. He beat Schleck by 40 seconds on the 8.9 km prologue. Just imagine how much more he could gain on a 52 km time trial.

Regardless of my opinion, it's not a surprise that he didn't wait. Obviously, Contador wants to win. Who wouldn't? It's really easy for people to say "I would have waited" or "Lance would have waited", but really we don't know how we would react unless we were in the exact same situation (which will never happen). Sometimes, when playing sports I get ultra competitive and might say something or do something in the heat of the moment because I want to win badly. It might not be correct, but like others have said, we make a split second decision and go with it.

On a side note: one thing I've learned about this forum is that there are many passionate people contributing to it. And often times, a fanboy or stupid comment will result in lots of hate responses back and forth. It's all kind of silly (and often funny ) .

 

[gazmercer]

Yep, I totally agree !!

EVERY person, and I mean EVERY PERSON that thinks Contador should have waited when Andy suffered a mechanical, is Out of their mind.
THIS IS A RACE we're watching, not a social gathering. Man, this sport is made up of a bunch of wierdos, who all seem to think that they can, and in fact are obligated, to pass judgement on every move that's made, every breathe that's taken. Is that because watching bike racing is like watching paint dry, until the final few kilometers?
Andy didn't fall, a mechanical is a mechanical, and that's just too darn bad. All the nay sayers are absolutely ridiculous, ABSOLUTELY! Issues like these are turning me more away from the sport than doping ever did. Issues like the melodrama with LA and AC last year that escalated, through the media, to monstrous proportions until Grandpa buried a pedal into a curb. Or was Vino really ****ed because Contador is trying to win the biggest race of the year, and his efforts deprived poor old Vino of a stage win, And how proper was that, of Contador to do??? Really, Alberto is almost a Demon from Hell, with nothing but evil thoughts and designs for everyone, as far as his critics are concerned.
Sports competitions are made of capitalizing on opportunities. To think otherwise is naive, hypocritical and just plain stupid. If Andy had fallen I could see the criticism, but that is not what happened. Andy should be pi$$ed at SRAM, not anybody else.
When did this sport become such an etiquette contest? It's a bike race. Fastest man to the end of the route wins, that's it! Wake up Idiots, Wake Up!
BTW does it seem like I'm angry? How astute of you to notice! This sport is populated with too many "unspoken" rules. Most are too negative, and far too many are hypocritical, for my taste.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's better to ask for forgiveness,, than to ask for permission.

 

[BroDeal]

He is definitely well past before andy unclips. I have not seen a camera angle yet to know if DM and SS are past him as well but both the astana guys have probably 20 or 30 meters on him before he unclips. I would to see where the other 2 were.

So close to the top it is not odd for vino to backoff and let AS carry on, he can lurk back and get in the way of whoever si trying to respond.

Contador probably thought Shrek wanted to do another track stand on a mountain. You snooze, you lose.

 

[Anonymous]

Precisely. Contador was not on form today and would have been beaten by Schleck. He said he did not wait, but was still easily caught.

Incredibly stupid, just stunningly dumb.

Toodles psycho!

 

[christianpetrin]

It´s incredible that I´m reading so many guys defending Contador´s behavior... put yourself into AS shoes: would it be fair WITH YOU if your major rival takes advantage of a situation like this?

Everyone who says so has, at minum, no sense of fairness.

 

[2wheels]

When did this sport become such an etiquette contest? It's a bike race. Fastest man to the end of the route wins, that's it! Wake up Idiots, Wake Up!
BTW does it seem like I'm angry? How astute of you to notice! This sport is populated with too many "unspoken" rules. Most are too negative, and far too many are hypocritical, for my taste.

If you leave in a huff, we'll really miss you.

 

[scribe]

One more time for you and I'll type it really slowly: how is that any different than AS not "waiting" for Contador after Contador got caught behind the crashes on St 3? Fits all of your own criteria: Contador's a GC contender, he lost time through no fault of his own (ie caught behind a crash), etc. So let's say AS went on to win the Tour by a minute: by your own definition, then, AS won not because he was the "strongest on the road" but because he took advantage of AC's misfortune on St 3. Still failing to see how this is any different.

But still, I would like to hear an explanation as to why you think AS is worthy of respect while wearing yellow but Chavanel is not.

The road has proven that Sylvain Chavanel is not worthy of the yellow in Paris. Nothing would ever change that fact and all the racers understood that. The only think SC could hope for out of the cobbles was to hold the jersey until the alps. The mechanical spoiled that, just the way stage neutralization spoiled Cancellara's yellow.

The mechanical to Shrek, not the road, might be the decisive factor here on determining the yellow in Paris. There is a stark difference in this. To win on a single mechanical cheapens the effort of all involved in this race.

 

[saganftw]

So Cancellara should win the Tour. He was the first MJ and he was in trouble in the first mountainstage. They should've waited for him!

are you dumb? i said when MJ is in trouble (bike change,wheel change,other) not when he suffers in mountains

 

[El Pistolero]

The Tour has its written rules and its unwritten rules. The written rules do not say that Contador has to wait. The unwritten rules say he must wait. The written rules apply to all riders. The unwritten rules apply to only those riders with a conscience, who cares about decency, fair play, and the 100+ years tradition of the Tour de France.

So no one follows the unwritten rules? Cause doping ain't respecting the 100+ year tradition of the Tour de France now is it?

I'm talking about the likes of Merckx, Riss, Armstrong, Ullrich, Pantani, etc here. All dopers, although Merckx didn't use the good stuff like the others did.

 

[nia O'Malley]

I watched the tape again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

Ask yourself this, if Contador didn't wait some, how did Menchov and SS catch him? Once they caught him, they went through (Contador was looking back before and after they caught him) and Contador latched on. Maybe he should have ridden their wheels, but fact is that he did wait initially because there is no way SS and Menchov were strong enough to go with him when he attacked out of the bunch, why would have they been able to catch him if he were still going full gas?

Look at the tape. Do we need a thread on why SS and Menchov didn't wait too, or can we add them to this thread also?

AC waited for those 2 because he needed them on the descent, there's nothing else to it. AC even says it in interviews, if you can read spanish, check it, I can and just read it. He wanted Sanchez in front of him. You think he wanted to descend on his own? LoL.

except that noone booed contador

You must be deaf as a post or you didn't watch it. The jeering was pretty intense.

 

[El Pistolero]

are you dumb? i said when MJ is in trouble (bike change,wheel change,other) not when he suffers in mountains

Cancellara's hidden cycling engine broke.



Just kidding lol

 

[cody_57]

for crying out loud vino countered schleck with such ease imagine hoe quickly contador would've sat in his wheel.

Yes, I do believe the claims that Andy was going to bury Alberto on the climb is completely wrong. And right or wrong with Alberto riding away, he's got yellow. Anything we say here will not change the standings.

 

[Von Mises]

Jeebus, you cats kill me. From the video Andy attacks, Vino responds and starts closing the gap. At the same time you see AC coming out of the pack and closing the gap very quickly. Then Andy looks down and stops his attack.

Now I've seen him do that before. Just like I've seen AC do it as well. Throw down an attack and see that you haven't gotten as large of a gap as you thought and then shut it down. So at this point, AC was supposed to shut it down and just soft pedal, but instead he throws down his own counter-attack.

Andy is still on his bike. He's not unclipped. And AC passes him on the left and never looks back.

Where did you see that AC was closing gap very quickly? Video does not show this.

 

[Siriuscat]

LOL. Yes scribe, that's me in a nutshell. I definitely see Andy off his bike and on the side of the road when AC decides to attack.

Jeebus, you cats kill me. From the video Andy attacks, Vino responds and starts closing the gap. At the same time you see AC coming out of the pack and closing the gap very quickly. Then Andy looks down and stops his attack.

Now I've seen him do that before. Just like I've seen AC do it as well. Throw down an attack and see that you haven't gotten as large of a gap as you thought and then shut it down. So at this point, AC was supposed to shut it down and just soft pedal, but instead he throws down his own counter-attack.

Andy is still on his bike. He's not unclipped. And AC passes him on the left and never looks back.

That's what I saw in the video. Can someone not wearing AC goggles tell me what I am blind to or interjecting here so that I can be equally outraged at AC's sudden dishonorable behavior?

Said this already so I'm a +1 on that

 

[MarcoB]

Poor sportsmanship on Contador. Just like sticking it to his own team mate a few days ago. He saw the problem. If you ride and race you KNOW when someone drops a chain, especially when you climb right past him.

No excuse. He's selfish

BTW - getting caught behind a crash is completely different to a mechanical.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Precisely. Contador was not on form today and would have been beaten by Schleck. He said he did not wait, but was still easily caught.

BPC - you need to watch the video - Vino is almost on Schlecks wheel and Contador had already made up most of the distance on Vino.
It was a good effort by Andy but it was not going to dislodge AC.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

To win on a single mechanical cheapens the effort of all involved in this race.

I agree. I'm sure you feel that way about Armstrong's decision to take advantage of his rivals' crash on the Passage du Gois, right?

Same thing with Mayo's crash in 2004, right?

 

[biokemguy]

AC wasn't watchint the live coverage

It seems easy to claim AC was in the wrong, when it's clear to the viewing public that AS dropped his chain.

But AC was responding to the attack with all he had. I have to believe he had no idea that AS had a mechanical. If that's the case then he raced as one would expect. All his looking back may have been in shock that AS was not on his wheel.

Just seems like bad luck to me for AS. AC had some bad luck on stage 3, that's life. If AS is so strong, he'll get the time back over the next couple of days. He looked good to me, so I hope he does get the time back, which will make the ITT worth watching.

The really interesting thing to me, is the ITT course doesn't really suit AC, so I think AS might not lose as much time as people expect.