The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[python]

this 'lance-cancer-fighter' argument for respecting him gives me laughs every time i hear it.

this is a cycling forum for christ's sake and not one of his promotional sites !

atrak,read this carefully.

if you read this forum, you'll recognize several very prolific posters who modestly admitted to winning their own fight with cancer and at the same time deeply distrustful of armstrong usurping the right to speak on their behalf.

they are cancer survivors with a different perspective. you ought to consider why they think not like you.

 

[kurtinsc]

I agree. He had a lot of opportunities to actually raise awareness but he concentrated on talking about the races and who was the leader in his team. It was about the bike, not cancer.

Yes.

BUT... raising money for the LAF is still a good thing in my book. Lance has a personal agenda. He's out primarily for himself, and much of his statements regarding cancer are pretty self serving. But he doesn't take money from the LAF directly, and spends quite a bit of time raising money for the LAF.

And that's still a positive action, regardless of his motivation.

 

[Berzin]

I agree. He had a lot of opportunities to actually raise awareness but he concentrated on talking about the races and who was the leader in his team. It was about the bike, not cancer.

Halfway through the Giro last year he boycotted the Italian media when he had that hissy fit with the organizer. The only message he was sending was "I'm a whiny little girl who cannot take criticism. I'm taking my (one and only) ball and going home".

Really big of him to do that.

Tell me. How does one fight cancer? What do you do to fight it? Can one man really fight it all by himself?

He raises awareness. He doesn't fight cancer. Lets get real about the net worth of what he does.

Bravo my good man. Excellent post.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're missing the point here: "raising awareness" means making people aware of the treatment options, educating them on what to expect while undergoing treatment (chemo, radiation, etc), teaching them how to cope while living with the disease, and end of life care. "

You guys in America must have s**t-poor doctors then if you need the LAF to tell you that stuff.

 

[Digger]

You guys in America must have s**t-poor doctors then if you need the LAF to tell you that stuff.

Lol.........

 

[Anonymous]

I have noticed that cancer has become associated with struggle and aggression-like metaphors. Many people don't claim to have been cured from cancer, they have 'beaten cancer' or 'fought cancer'. In a recent publicity campaign in the Netherlands, a famous swimmer who survived cancer was depicted with a sword in his hand. There were no references why he was holding it - apparently the connection between cancer and fighting is quickly recognized by viewers.

[snip for ease of quoting]

Sorry to write so extensively about this, but health communication has been part of my studies, so I just had all kinds of associations with the subject. The image of cancer in mass media deserves a lot of study and would make a fine research subject. It could even focus on Armstrong, as a thesis.

Completely agree. The notion that suvivors are fighters and those who succumb didn't fight hard enough is a load of balls, and creates more harm than good.

And I'm still convinced LA's cancer was different to "usual" - brought on (or at worst exacerbated) by PEDs and therefore had some kind of composition that made them flourish on the PEDS but when the PEDS ceased the cancer cells were easier to destroy. And before anyone starts, I studied oncology at uni (my thesis was on antiangiogenesis) so I'm not completely uneducated on this topic.

 

[kurtinsc]

You guys in America must have s**t-poor doctors then if you need the LAF to tell you that stuff.

Yes... we do.

Doctors in the US are there to diagnose. They try to "fix" you as quickly as possible, then get you the hell out so they can see the next patient.

The more they see... the more they make.

Meanwhile, the departments that are supposed to handle that sort of "post treatment" treatment (mainly social workers) are horribly underfunded... because they don't bring in income.

The LAF does help fill that void for cancer survivors.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

this 'lance-cancer-fighter' argument for respecting him gives me laughs every time i hear it.

this is a cycling forum for christ's sake and not one of his promotional sites !

atrak,read this carefully.

if you read this forum, you'll recognize several very prolific posters who modestly admitted to winning their own fight with cancer and at the same time deeply distrustful of armstrong usurping the right to speak on their behalf.

they are cancer survivors with a different perspective. you ought to consider why they think not like you.

You make a good point. There are several survivors that have posted here in the past. There was a thread a while back about what kind of 09 you had; I was amazed how many people listed cancer in some way. But the cancer survivors you mentioned are typically rational and articulate in their criticisms. Users like the Hog, on the other hand, are anything but rational. To my knowledge, he has never posted anything about being personaly affected with the disease (it would actually validate some of criticisms); he just rants and raves about how much money he makes, how fat he is, or how his improved form must be related to doping.

 

[thehog]

To my knowledge, he has never posted anything about being personaly affected with the disease (it would actually validate some of criticisms); he just rants and raves about how much money he makes, how fat he is, or how his improved form must be related to doping.

Lost my mother, my father fought it along with my sister and life long partner whom I no longer with because she lost the ability to conceive - from the treatment.

Your turn.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes... we do.

Doctors in the US are there to diagnose. They try to "fix" you as quickly as possible, then get you the hell out so they can see the next patient.

The more they see... the more they make.

Meanwhile, the departments that are supposed to handle that sort of "post treatment" treatment (mainly social workers) are horribly underfunded... because they don't bring in income.

The LAF does help fill that void for cancer survivors.

Blimey. I thought Dr Nick (Simpsons) was a joke, not a case-study.

That should change though with Obama's health reforms, shouldn't it?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Lost my mother, my father fought it along with my sister and life long partner whom I no longer with because she lost the ability to conceive - from the treatment.

Your turn.

My mother beat it (caught it way early, basically a non-issue), lost my grandfather (dad's side), grandmother (mom's side), a vey close family friend deceased this year, another family friend started chemo about 6 months ago (he's been tough), my neighbor through high school (breast cancer) and my girlfriend's mom in and out of remission for about 15 years now.

Why didn't you ever mention that before?

 

[kurtinsc]

Blimey. I thought Dr Nick (Simpsons) was a joke, not a case-study.

That should change though with Obama's health reforms, shouldn't it?

Nope.

The health care bill that was passed will do a lot to get more americans insured, and protect us from losing insurance due to pre-existing conditions and such.

But we'll still be going through the current healthcare system... and doctors will still make more by seeing more patients... and profit will still be the driving factor, not health.

I'm glad it got passed. But it works within what we've got now... it didnt' create a new system.

 

[9000ft]

Fun to check in on this thread once and a while to see the same old posters posting the same old stuff. I especially like how many of the LA haters who say they don't care about the guy and are sick of him posting away on the official Lance Armstrong thread.

Carry on. It beats working or bike riding I guess.

 

[Digger]

My mother beat it (caught it way early, basically a non-issue), lost my grandfather (dad's side), grandmother (mom's side), a vey close family friend deceased this year, another family friend started chemo about 6 months ago (he's been tough), my neighbor through high school (breast cancer) and my girlfriend's mom in and out of remission for about 15 years now.

Why didn't you ever mention that before?

I like the Hog's posts. He can answer for himself, but I personally respect that he never mentioned it. One, it's a cycling forum. Secondly, how can you possible enter into a debate or argument with someone after hearing that, without coming across as being insensitive? And that's the problem with Lance. He plays the cancer awareness card when things get a bit sticky in press conferences. And sudden;y, he's untouchable again.
I think we're on dangerous territory, if our arguments are being 'strengthened' by our experiences with cancer. The fact that certain people have been unfortunate enough to have been affected, more than others by this disease, does this mean they are more right?

 

[Digger]

Fun to check in on this thread once and a while to see the same old posters posting the same old stuff. I especially like how many of the LA haters who say they don't care about the guy and are sick of him posting away on the official Lance Armstrong thread.

Carry on. It beats working or bike riding I guess.

Ironic talking about us posting the same old stuff, when this post above is almost identical to so many seen already.........

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I like the Hog's posts. He can answer for himself, but I personally respect that he never mentioned it. One, it's a cycling forum. Secondly, how can you possible enter into a debate or argument with someone after hearing that, without coming across as being insensitive? And that's the problem with Lance. He plays the cancer awareness card when things get a bit sticky in press conferences. And sudden;y, he's untouchable again.
I think we're on dangerous territory, if our arguments are being 'strengthened' by our experiences with cancer. The fact that certain people have been unfortunate enough to have been affected, more than others by this disease, does this mean they are more right?

It's not that arguments are being strengthened by experiences with the disease, it just provides some insight to where people might be coming from. I'm just surprised in so many of his posts, it's never been mentioned before.

 

[Digger]

It's not that arguments are being strengthened by experiences with the disease, it just provides some insight to where people might be coming from. I'm just surprised in so many of his posts, it's never been mentioned before.

Well why should he? It doesn't add to the debate, and isn't relevant to Lance and LAF.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Well why should he? It doesn't add to the debate, and isn't relevant to Lance and LAF.

It may or may not be relevant, that depends. My experiences with cancer are relevant because I know people that have used the LAF to find doctors close by or even to learn more about the disease through the website. That's why I support the LAF far more than Lance. Yes I am a fan of his, but that doesn't extend much beyond the fact that I took an interest in cycling because he's an American and was winning the TdF. He's far from my favorite cyclist right now, but I believe in what the LAF does. I just find it surprising in such vehement criticism, it has never been mentioned.

 

[theswordsman]

Fun to check in on this thread once and a while to see the same old posters posting the same old stuff. I especially like how many of the LA haters who say they don't care about the guy and are sick of him posting away on the official Lance Armstrong thread.

Carry on. It beats working or bike riding I guess.

We do appreciate people popping in now and again to remind us that they're superior to us as human beings.

 

[thehog]

Why didn't you ever mention that before?

First of all I wish your family and friends all the best.

For me it’s a personal thing. It’s not something that should be talked about in every post in reference to my thoughts on cycling or Armstrong related topics. I don’t need to say “I fought this disease” to have credibility. Everyone’s pain is their own. My experience with cancer is not better or worse or trumps someone who has a deaf grandmother!

Yellow wristbands, yellow balloons, t-shirts and fist punching doesn’t soften the physical pain and the pain that the families and friends see from a loved one wasting away.

As you would know there comes a time after grieving that you move on. A certain amount of time passes and you want your life to go back to relative normality. Often my objection to Armstrong is that he’s trying to relive that feeling of overcoming cancer. You can’t. People hate to say but there is an aphrodisiacal quality to overcoming something like cancer. There is also a great relief although you are in a great deal of pain when someone dies after suffering so much pain. I felt relief but I never spoke of it because it was disrespectful but I also felt a great about of energy that I could now achieve anything – after seeing death that is. Everyone who has had cancer knows about this “feeling” – the feeling that you can do anything because of what you had or what you saw. However in saying all this - there comes a time when you’re no longer a survivor and you are a normal person again. There comes a point when you move on. Lance won’t do this and not because he wants to represent the illness because of what it brings him – the marketing, the status, the money the notoriety and most of all “the feeling”.

The comeback 2.0 to raise “awareness” I personally believe was the most disgusting acts I have ever seen in my life. Lance would obviously argue that he’s doing a good thing but the comeback really didn’t have a lot to do with awareness but more with Livestrong Inc. which is Armstrong Inc. His profited well from the comeback. In fact he’s profited extremely well but to do it under the guise of “awareness” is well, its sick. If he wanted to come back and do it for himself to prove he can beat the younger guys then good. Go for it but to disrespect me and my family by telling me he’s doing it for “them” with a Nike logo emblazoned across his message is fraudulent. Because he aint’t doing it for them, he’s doing it for himself. Period. Most of all who elected Lance to represent “them”? I certainly didn’t. And do we have a choice in the matter that he speaks for the cancer community?

Finally. He’s a bad liar and a even worse cyclist.

 

[altark123]

Why not? Is it so hard to believe that not everyone views him as you do? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but folks are entitled to their own opinion. He is not above criticism or reproach, yes even with respect to his work for advancing cancer awareness. If I were you, I would just let this slide and
move on to more productive topics of discussion.

Ok, I guess I didn't realize how controversial this was, I can let it go, but I still don't understand it. Just like i strongly dislike many public figures but I still give them credit for their positive contributions to this world.

And I wasn't focusing on this recent comeback effort or what have you but more so the LAF and the incredibly positive things they have done for people I know.

Again, this was not about Lance the person or cyclist, but someone who has undeniably done some good work for some people, if you disagree so be it.

 

[epo1999]

First of all I wish your family and friends all the best.

For me it’s a personal thing. It’s not something that should be talked about in every post in reference to my thoughts on cycling or Armstrong related topics. I don’t need to say “I fought this disease” to have credibility. Everyone’s pain is their own. My experience with cancer is not better or worse or trumps someone who has a deaf grandmother!

Yellow wristbands, yellow balloons, t-shirts and fist punching doesn’t soften the physical pain and the pain that the families and friends see from a loved one wasting away.

As you would know there comes a time after grieving that you move on. A certain amount of time passes and you want your life to go back to relative normality. Often my objection to Armstrong is that he’s trying to relive that feeling of overcoming cancer. You can’t. People hate to say but there is an aphrodisiacal quality to overcoming something like cancer. There is also a great relief although you are in a great deal of pain when someone dies after suffering so much pain. I felt relief but I never spoke of it because it was disrespectful but I also felt a great about of energy that I could now achieve anything – after seeing death that is. Everyone who has had cancer knows about this “feeling” – the feeling that you can do anything because of what you had or what you saw. However in saying all this - there comes a time when you’re no longer a survivor and you are a normal person again. There comes a point when you move on. Lance won’t do this and not because he wants to represent the illness because of what it brings him – the marketing, the status, the money the notoriety and most of all “the feeling”.

The comeback 2.0 to raise “awareness” I personally believe was the most disgusting acts I have ever seen in my life. Lance would obviously argue that he’s doing a good thing but the comeback really didn’t have a lot to do with awareness but more with Livestrong Inc. which is Armstrong Inc. His profited well from the comeback. In fact he’s profited extremely well but to do it under the guise of “awareness” is well, its sick. If he wanted to come back and do it for himself to prove he can beat the younger guys then good. Go for it but to disrespect me and my family by telling me he’s doing it for “them” with a Nike logo emblazoned across his message is fraudulent. Because he aint’t doing it for them, he’s doing it for himself. Period. Most of all who elected Lance to represent “them”? I certainly didn’t. And do we have a choice in the matter that he speaks for the cancer community?

Finally. He’s a bad liar and a even worse cyclist.

I completely agree. I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Angio-Sarcoma in 1992, given a 10% chance to live 6mos, took 15 rounds of chemo, and am still here. What was said in this post is spot on. You cannot go back. Life has to return to normal, and it's a good thing. To continue this charade of constant cancer fighting is just gross. I have never supported LA or the LAF exactly for this reason - he/they sensationalize the "fight" to such a degree that it appears you need to have cancer to be anything. It's a tool for LA, as evidenced by his constant use of cancer as a shield from any criticism. When someone asks me a challenging question, I don't say "how can you ask that? I had cancer!" I think he would be more effective if he'd step down and let the foundation run without him, and take no profit from it, directly or indirectly. He started a good organization, but I think he's poisoning the well at this point.

 

[theswordsman]

I think he would be more effective if he'd step down and let the foundation run without him, and take no profit from it, directly or indirectly. He started a good organization, but I think he's poisoning the well at this point.

It was that way already during the days when he was just out being a celebrity, with Kate Hudson, the Olsen, and all the rest. Even people in the media were questioning whether or not he and his lifestyle were a detriment to the organization. Then last year with all the lies and personal media attacks on AC, along with all of the other problems, I wrote him off as a human being. I have no idea of any financial lines being crossed, but every time I saw a personal photographer who had worked for either LS or the Foundation, and the guy who works for LS and blogs at the races or in the follow car during training, and now the personal jet, I hope that not a cent of it was covered by donations, and that it's all on the up and up.

 

[Oldman]

It was that way already during the days when he was just out being a celebrity, with Kate Hudson, the Olsen, and all the rest. Even people in the media were questioning whether or not he and his lifestyle were a detriment to the organization. Then last year with all the lies and personal media attacks on AC, along with all of the other problems, I wrote him off as a human being. I have no idea of any financial lines being crossed, but every time I saw a personal photographer who had worked for either LS or the Foundation, and the guy who works for LS and blogs at the races or in the follow car during training, and now the personal jet, I hope that not a cent of it was covered by donations, and that it's all on the up and up.

We're getting into Unicorn territory here but everyone would hope good deeds could be done. LA been schooled by the best handlers ever since his Montogomery Securities days. Those sponsors knew how to expense everthing.

 

[python]

I completely agree. I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Angio-Sarcoma in 1992, given a 10% chance to live 6mos, took 15 rounds of chemo, and am still here. What was said in this post is spot on. You cannot go back. Life has to return to normal, and it's a good thing. To continue this charade of constant cancer fighting is just gross. I have never supported LA or the LAF exactly for this reason - he/they sensationalize the "fight" to such a degree that it appears you need to have cancer to be anything. It's a tool for LA, as evidenced by his constant use of cancer as a shield from any criticism. When someone asks me a challenging question, I don't say "how can you ask that? I had cancer!" I think he would be more effective if he'd step down and let the foundation run without him, and take no profit from it, directly or indirectly. He started a good organization, but I think he's poisoning the well at this point.

thank you very much for this thoughtful post !!!!

i wish you the very best and hope altark and the like-minded have read it.

altark started this tired old line that armstrong deserves respect for his anti-cancer work. i countered it that there are many modest proud survivors/forum members who felt quite different and suggested he try to understand them. i intentionally avoided mentioning their handles/names because i felt it is their personal prerogative to speak up or remain silent.

so i thank you again for speaking up.