The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[kurtinsc]

Here is where you are being cute. First, I didn't say he made money driving folks to LAF. He makes money by driving them to ".com" site because he is an owner of a private held company that has ambitions to go public. His stake has been characterized as anything but small (in the press release announcing it), so I don't know where you draw that conclusion. How he makes money from that is pretty straightforward (ad revenue minus costs equal profits (he shares in those)).

Jerry Lewis was famous LONG BEFORE the MDA. His claim to fame isn't having survived MD. He's not a stockholder in MDA. He doesn't have side deals with company's that donate with or partner with MDA. The MDA doesn't use his name as part of its name. The bulk of Jerry's money is in residuals for his comedic career (movies, etc.). His fame and fortune does not rise or fall with his role as spokesman for the MDA.

LAF exists ONLY because of Lance. The LiveStrong brand exists ONLY because of Lance. It only has value because of what he did as a cyclist and his unretirement has been financially beneficial to both. LAF is not bigger than Lance. It is wholly dependent on him for its existence.

Trying to draw an analogy between the two is simply wrong IMO.

The conclusion of the ownership stake comes from a basic understanding of how businesses work.

A company with an estimated net value of over a billion dollars does not just go and give 10% of their stock to a guy (or a charity) for contributing to a new website, marketing, or the use of a domain name.

I could buy a 1% ownership stake... that would have a value of 10 million dollars. That MIGHT be within the realm of reason. 5% would be pushing it (50 million dollars).


You are correct that the Livestrong brand and the LAF exist only because of Lance. But they aren't owned by Lance in any way, and Lance in no way can get the money donated to the LAF or raised by the LAF. While he spearheaded the creation of the LAF, the LAF is not in any way dependent upon him any longer for their existenc (just like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is no longer dependent upon the Gates' for their existance... perhaps you like that comparison more.)

My whole point is that while Lance does profit from his association with the LAF... none of it in any way takes ANYTHING from the charity... or directly from anyone donating to the charity. I'd argue the charity profits 10 times as much from the relationship as Lance does. I don't see a lot his endorsements not being there if he were "just" a 7-time tour winner who recovered from cancer who didn't have a charity. I still think Trek, Nike, Michelob and all his other sponsors would be paying him as much... and the people at livestrong.com would be going to armstrong.com instead. If anything, he'd have gotten a bigger chunk from Demand out of the bargain.

If someone goes to livestrong.com... I don't see ANYWHERE they can actually spend money on anything. Yes, Demand makes money from the advertisements... but it's not like you're getting tricked into opening your wallet thinking that it's going to charity. And the LAF owns a "significant" portion of DemandMedia as well (according to the press release)... so they DO get funds from you visiting the .com site.

 

[kurtinsc]

Lance should not make a cent from his association with Livestrong.

$10 million dollars is 'significant money' - it is not a 'significant stake' in a company that was valued at $1 billion at the time.

I am sure the cancer community would say that $10 million is 'significant'.

He didn't get that stake from the livestrong name.

He got it from licensing the use of his image and name for marketing the site and providing content.

I think your view is that he's only making that money because of the LAF. My argument is that if he never started the charity and was just a 7 time TDF winner who survived a bout with cancer, you'd instead have a site called "armstrong.com" run by demand with the same content and Lance having both his stake and the LAF's stake in his pocket.

I don't see him taking money away from the LAF. I see him providing the LAF with more funds through his coattails.

And I hope Demand goes public soon. Companies are required to disclose their major stockholders (anyone with more then 5% equity).

I'd be willing to bet... well my entire net worth... that Armstrong wouldn't be listed.

 

[Digger]

He didn't get that stake from the livestrong name.

He got it from licensing the use of his image and name for marketing the site and providing content.

I think your view is that he's only making that money because of the LAF. My argument is that if he never started the charity and was just a 7 time TDF winner who survived a bout with cancer, you'd instead have a site called "armstrong.com" run by demand with the same content and Lance having both his stake and the LAF's stake in his pocket.

I don't see him taking money away from the LAF. I see him providing the LAF with more funds through his coattails.
And I hope Demand goes public soon. Companies are required to disclose their major stockholders (anyone with more then 5% equity).

I'd be willing to bet... well my entire net worth... that Armstrong wouldn't be listed.

And spreading cancer awareness in Aust last year, he got 2m for this amazing act. Don't you think that 2m would be better served going to the LAF?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

That's a fair enough post. I don't agree with alot of what you say, but fair engouh at the same time.

I don 't agree with you either, but that's why we keep coming back to the forum

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He didn't get that stake from the livestrong name.

He got it from licensing the use of his image and name for marketing the site and providing content.

I think your view is that he's only making that money because of the LAF. My argument is that if he never started the charity and was just a 7 time TDF winner who survived a bout with cancer, you'd instead have a site called "armstrong.com" run by demand with the same content and Lance having both his stake and the LAF's stake in his pocket.

I don't see him taking money away from the LAF. I see him providing the LAF with more funds through his coattails.

And I hope Demand goes public soon. Companies are required to disclose their major stockholders (anyone with more then 5% equity).

I'd be willing to bet... well my entire net worth... that Armstrong wouldn't be listed.

Lance does have a website called LanceArmstrong.com - it doesnt get visited that often.

Here is a graph of the 3 different sites.

Lances personal website is hard to see in that graph - it is the rather flat line along the bottom.

 

[patricknd]

i really am surprised how much i am begining to dislike the noise i hear from the Lance lovers and the Lance haters.

Both sides seem to know way TOOO much and devote way too much time to him.

amen to that

 

[Hugh Januss]

i really am surprised how much i am begining to dislike the noise i hear from the Lance lovers and the Lance haters.

Both sides seem to know way TOOO much and devote way too much time to him.

amen to that

The nicest thing about the written word is if it doesn't interest you it is very easy to ignore by simply not reading it.

 

[patricknd]

The nicest thing about the written word is if it doesn't interest you it is very easy to ignore by simply not reading it.

take your own advice, anus.

 

[Digger]

take your own advice, anus.

Did you come up with that all by yourself?

 

[Race Radio]

And I hope Demand goes public soon. Companies are required to disclose their major stockholders (anyone with more then 5% equity).

I'd be willing to bet... well my entire net worth... that Armstrong wouldn't be listed.

Dilution is a great thing. He may be less then 5% when they go public but how much is he now?

 

[elapid]

take your own advice, anus.

Sorry, patricknd, but you're an ass. All Hugh was saying if you don't want to read what the so-called LA haters and the LA lovers are writing, then don't visit this thread. Simple as that. Hugh does write on this thread and is therefore interested in the subject matter. If you are not interested in reading the to-ing and fro-ing, then don't visit the thread and don't feel the need to comment. Comments like yours are rude and disrespectful and serve no other purpose than to inflame.

 

[Winterfold]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

 

[BikeCentric]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

It could be any of those things, but quite simply it's just because Armstrong is one of the biggest douchebags on the planet.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

Had Cunego said something about LA and his recent sickness?

I had assumed it was to do with the Mantova case - but if Cunego made remarks about LA being sick then it may make sense.

 

[patricknd]

Sorry, patricknd, but you're an ass. All Hugh was saying if you don't want to read what the so-called LA haters and the LA lovers are writing, then don't visit this thread. Simple as that. Hugh does write on this thread and is therefore interested in the subject matter. If you are not interested in reading the to-ing and fro-ing, then don't visit the thread and don't feel the need to comment. Comments like yours are rude and disrespectful and serve no other purpose than to inflame.

he was free to keep his comments to himself. he responded with a snide remark to what i wrote and so i did likewise. if you don't like it, take your own advise and don't read our little discourse. you're free to ignore me, i suggest you do so.

 

[Digger]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

For me it's about Lampre scenario. Lance will defend the dopers to the hilt if they toe the line. If they voice disapproval like Cunego did last year, you are persona non grata to Lance. Omerta is safe.

 

[Winterfold]

I dont have any evidence about Cunego saying anything about LA with the ****s* and initially assumed it was to do with Mantova - but then when I saw he had dropped out and the timing was about right did wonder if there might be another explanation?

The tweet was 'Wondering what the Little Prince will say now..."

Give me diarolyte?

"I'll crush you little prince" is just priceless pantomime villain stuff, I dont know how the peloton didn't collapse in a heap ****ing themselves.

All part of the fun I guess.

*There's a lot of it about at the moment.

I guess it's that time of year when everyone is working hard at getting their weight down.

Or maybe it was all the Leffe, frites and mayo before the RVV...

 

[python]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

good point. only armstrong knows but if i recall correctly there was some kind of clash between the two during the last giro when armstrong, as was reported in the media said, 'i will crash you little man' or something when the liitle prince refused to bow to the old geezers demand for a road space...a vindictive *** he is and always will be.

 

[BikeCentric]

I dont have any evidence about Cunego saying anything about LA with the ****s* and initially assumed it was to do with Mantova - but then when I saw he had dropped out and the timing was about right did wonder if there might be another explanation?

The tweet was 'Wondering what the Little Prince will say now..."

Give me diarolyte?

"I'll crush you little prince" is just priceless pantomime villain stuff, I dont know how the peloton didn't collapse in a heap ****ing themselves.

All part of the fun I guess.

*There's a lot of it about at the moment.

I guess it's that time of year when everyone is working hard at getting their weight down.

Or maybe it was all the Leffe, frites and mayo before the RVV...

I totally forgot about that, you're right apparently LA got into a verbal altercation with Cunego while fighting for a wheel at the Giro last summer.

This makes more sense now and keeps with Armstrong's past bullying behavior. Essentially he is kicking Cunego while he's down - Cunego is under investigation for drugs via Lampre now so this is Lance's chance to stick the knife in. Also we know that Cunego tried to pretend that he was clean at the Giro last summer so it can be another example of Armstrong enforcing the Omerta i.e. "look at what happens to those who speak out."

I cannot wait untill Armstrong retires.

 

[kurtinsc]

Dilution is a great thing. He may be less then 5% when they go public but how much is he now?

The financial documents necessary prior to an IPO contain all major investors PRIOR to the sale of new stocks.

So let's say Demand gives the current owners 1000 shares of stock, divided by percentage of ownership. They then issue another 1000 shares to the IPO. Anyone who had more then 50 shares prior to the IPO would be public knowledge.

And while Lance COULD sell to someone else in the company prior to the IPO... it would be financially inept to do so. More then likely, the value of the stock would SOAR just after the IPO... and he could sell in the public market for a pretty ridiculous profit.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

good point. only armstrong knows but if i recall correctly there was some kind of clash between the two during the last giro when armstrong, as was reported in the media said, 'i will crash you little man' or something when the liitle prince refused to bow to the old geezers demand for a road space...a vindictive *** he is and always will be.

From Julian Deans blog of the Giro last year.

Story of the day goes to Lance, who at one point was having it out with Cunego as they were fighting for position mid-way through the race. Cunego goes by the nickname in Italy, 'The Prince'. All the Italians seem to have dorkie nicknames, such as the 'Dolphin' or 'Cricket'. Anyway, after squabbling back and forth to each other, in all his anger and frustration, Lance turned to Cunego and said, "I'll crush you, little Prince!". I had to laugh my arse off as it just sounded like something that had come straight out of a fairytale book.

 

[BroDeal]

he was free to keep his comments to himself. he responded with a snide remark to what i wrote and so i did likewise. if you don't like it, take your own advise and don't read our little discourse. you're free to ignore me, i suggest you do so.

Nah, it is entertaining to read what idiots like you write.

 

[horizon27]

I try to keep out of this in general, the guy is what he is and he is a big part of cycling whether we like it or not -

but why was he having a go at Cunego on twitter today? Is it just because Cunego dropped out of the Pais Vasco with the ****s and Cunego has been having a go at LA for having the ****s?

Or is it more to do with the Lampre/Mantova thing?

Armstrong is always picking on smallier guys.Like to see LA say the same things about Tom Boonen.

 

[patricknd]

Nah, it is entertaining to read what idiots like you write.

almost 4700 posts and still nothing of substance. gotta be a record.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm starting to think his "illnesses" are a ruse to explain a poor performance in the Tour.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/8606746.stm

His RadioShack team spokesman Philippe Maertens said: "Lance is not starting because of gastroenteritis."

Armstrong had indicated after stage one that six of his team's riders in France were struggling with a stomach bug.

The 38-year-old American, who was 27th in Sunday's one-day Tour of Flanders classic, managed to say on his twitter page: "Not so lucky I guess. Sicker than a dog now. This sucks."

Maertens added that Armstrong was suffering from diarrhoea, vomiting and a fever, and described his condition as "really bad".

Armstrong, who had already planned to miss the one-day Amstel Gold race in the Netherlands on 18 April, will head back to the United States as soon as he is able for recovery and to spend more time with his family.

Team sports director Alain Gallopin said "nothing has been decided" about his future race schedule.

"Maybe we will have to change his programme again. That's work for the coming days," said Gallopin.

"Lance was really keen on performing well, especially in the time trial of Wednesday afternoon.

"He showed his growing condition in the Tour of Flanders, where he came in with the first group sprinting for fifth place."

1. Claim illness.
2. Come back to event, slam a pint, perform quite well, claim growing condition;
3. Claim illness, preventing continued condition growth.