The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[Bagster]

Radioshack bikes to carry names of cancer survivors (because the ones who didn't survive aren't worthy for rememberance? )

http://road.cc/content/news/17148-trek-and-livestrong-team-i-ride-cancer-initiative

Buy a special edition Trek Unity frame/bike and $500 goes directly to Arm.. sorry... Livestrong.

Shall we have a sweepstake on how long it takes for a person to be discovered not having anything to do with cancer but paying for their name to go on the bikes?

edited by mod

 

[progressor]

1. I did study Armstrong's profiles. Only a nut job conspiracy theorist like yourself would claim a "spike". Want to contrast his with other top contenders? Oh thats right most of them didn't publish theirs.

2. A "zombie fanboy"...hmm I guess in your Socratic world that isn't calling people names?

3. Like most hateboyz you make the stupid inference that only Armstrong's team were on the dope, so giving him an unfair advantage.

4. "Shepherd his bloated Carcass up Ventoux"?? And you say I'm the one who needs to get his facts straight? If I remember correctly he finished just behind the two best climbers in the world, rode away from Frank, Wiggo, Nibaldi etc etc. (who must be really down that a bloated carcass beat them!) To refer to him as a "bloated carcass" ( a very emotive un-Socratic description I might add) Is a blatant put down of some very good riders who were not able to "ride the coat-tails" of the lead riders up Ventoux.

edited by mod

Nicely said, but some of these people are warped beyond any help on anything regarding armstrong,even to the most trivial detail.

Example

Problem there lies in the fact that he is 39 years old ...

Can't argue with people who've got all the facts sorted exactly the way they want them to be.

Interesting many of them admit they were fanboys when LA was the dominant rider - and now seem to be ardent AC fanboys when he holds the same status.

 

[elapid]

1. I did study Armstrong's profiles. Only a nut job conspiracy theorist like yourself would claim a "spike". Want to contrast his with other top contenders? Oh thats right most of them didn't publish theirs.

2. A "zombie fanboy"...hmm I guess in your Socratic world that isn't calling people names?

3. Like most hateboyz you make the stupid inference that only Armstrong's team were on the dope, so giving him an unfair advantage.

4. "Shepherd his bloated Carcass up Ventoux"?? And you say I'm the one who needs to get his facts straight? If I remember correctly he finished just behind the two best climbers in the world, rode away from Frank, Wiggo, Nibaldi etc etc. (who must be really down that a bloated carcass beat them!) To refer to him as a "bloated carcass" ( a very emotive un-Socratic description I might add) Is a blatant put down of some very good riders who were not able to "ride the coat-tails" of the lead riders up Ventoux.

I suggest that you take pause and reflect on the utter stupidity of your post. In a Socratic way of course

OK, I am usually quite tolerant but his blood profile in week 3 of a GT was highly questionable. It fell within the limits of the biological passport, but packed cell volume and reticulocytes do not increase after two and a bit weeks of hard racing. LA's equivalent results from the Giro show what any non-doped cyclist's blood profile should look like after this amount of racing. Labelling anyone who is suspicious of his blood work as a "nut job" is offensive, because it just proves how intolerant you are of people who are able to think for themselves and develop opinions on the available evidence. You are doing the very same thing that you state that you despise in the "hateboyz".

While I agree with you that others were not posting their blood results, no other rider is so concerned with the PR image or had something to prove. The fact that his association with Caitlin's doping program and his claimed transparency was such a failure, and that he pulled his blood profile from his website were very damning.

I very much doubt anyone on this forum think only LA or Astana were doping. If you spent anytime in the Clinic, you would realize how jaded everyone is regarding doping in the peloton. We all know that it is rife and discuss it ad nauseum. It is delusional to think that any other posters on this forum think only one person or one team dopes, and again shows how inappropriately myopic and intolerant you are.

So LA was so close to Contador and Andy Schleck, but rode away from the likes of Frank Schleck etc on Mont Ventoux? I am the first to admit that LA did a great job in last year's TdF. Regardless of age and the number of years out of the sport, to achieve 3rd in the TdF is a great achievement. But please be consistent: LA was 3 seconds behind AC and Andy on the Mont Ventoux stage, and LA was 2 seconds in front of Frank Schleck. This is hardly riding away from his competitors.

Practice what you preach, Bagster. Tolerance and the ability to recognize both the good and bad in any person is a good thing. To claim that you do this, and label the so-called haters with your vitriol is hypocritical.

 

[Race Radio]

1. I did study Armstrong's profiles. Only a nut job conspiracy theorist like yourself would claim a "spike". Want to contrast his with other top contenders? Oh thats right most of them didn't publish theirs.

It was not "Nutjob Conspiracy theorist" it was these guys

Jakob Mørkeberg has written 10 peer-reviewed papers on blood doping within the past three years, and has completed a Master’s thesis entitled Autologous Blood Doping. He was awarded a PhD for his dissertation Detection of Autologous Blood Transfusions via Analyses of Peripheral Blood Samples. One of his major goals as an anti-doping researcher is to find a method to detect such transfusions in sporting competitions such as the Tour de France.

He was involved in the running of the CSC and Astana anti-doping programmes until the end of 2008.

Bo Belhage is a chief anaestesiologist at Bispebjerg Hospital and has written 53 publications; of these, 41 are peer-reviewed, two peer-reviewed in press (pending) and 10 book chapters. He is a Doctor of Medical Science, an Associated Research Professor, and was also involved in the running of the CSC and Astana anti-doping programmes. He has been involved in science for 21 years.

The "Nutjob Conspiracy theorist" are those that blame every Armstrong positive on a vast French Conspiracy.

 

[SpeedWay]

Bagster. Although the pontification of your "hateboyz" is, as always priceless, you are upsetting the moderator causing the "hateboyz" gems to be deleted. Study one of the "Parents guide for anti-arguing with kids" books so you can elicit responses from the kids that won't be deleted. The soapbox speech you received from elapid was good for a few laughs but the posts from the more dominating and manipulating kids are always comedy gold. Great post though.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

People: stay with arguing the facts. Discuss the topic and NOT the users.

Susan

 

[frenchfry]

It was not "Nutjob Conspiracy theorist" it was these guys

Jakob Mørkeberg has written 10 peer-reviewed papers on blood doping within the past three years, and has completed a Master’s thesis entitled Autologous Blood Doping. He was awarded a PhD for his dissertation Detection of Autologous Blood Transfusions via Analyses of Peripheral Blood Samples. One of his major goals as an anti-doping researcher is to find a method to detect such transfusions in sporting competitions such as the Tour de France.

He was involved in the running of the CSC and Astana anti-doping programmes until the end of 2008.

Bo Belhage is a chief anaestesiologist at Bispebjerg Hospital and has written 53 publications; of these, 41 are peer-reviewed, two peer-reviewed in press (pending) and 10 book chapters. He is a Doctor of Medical Science, an Associated Research Professor, and was also involved in the running of the CSC and Astana anti-doping programmes. He has been involved in science for 21 years.

The "Nutjob Conspiracy theorist" are those that blame every Armstrong positive on a vast French Conspiracy.

Looks impressive, but how do we know these guys didn't finish last in their class?

For now I will put my trust in Twitter, thank you very much.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Nicely said, but some of these people are warped beyond any help on anything regarding armstrong,even to the most trivial detail.

Example

Originally Posted by Hugh Januss
Problem there lies in the fact that he is 39 years old ...

Can't argue with people who've got all the facts sorted exactly the way they want them to be.

Interesting many of them admit they were fanboys when LA was the dominant rider - and now seem to be ardent AC fanboys when he holds the same status.

You mean you don't believe he is really that old?
I was an Armstrong fan (not fanboy like you, I have never tried to purchase his used underwear online, unlike yourself) until I really read up on him.

 

[trompe le monde]

Looks impressive, but how do we know these guys didn't finish last in their class?

For now I will put my trust in Twitter, thank you very much.

Uh, most educational institutions don't hand out PhDs to those 'finishing last in their class'. To be more precise, you won't even get an opportunity to actually write a PhD proposal worth being rejected by a doctoral commission if you finish 'last in the class'.

The advancement from a BA, to a Masters degree to a PhD is a process in which those stragglers at the dumb end of the bell curve are effectively weeded out. Once you get the opportunity to defend a PhD, 'being last in the class' no longer applies, so it's actually a pretty stupid metric to gauge whether or not the people considered actually know what they are talking about.

You could make the point that Twitter is a more reliable source for factual information - who needs peer reviews? - but then again I'd reckon that those who believe it to be so most likely were 'the last of their class' to begin with.

 

[Publicus]

Uh, most educational institutions don't hand out PhDs to those 'finishing last in their class'. To be more precise, you won't even get an opportunity to actually write a PhD proposal worth being rejected by a doctoral commission if you finish 'last in the class'.

The advancement from a BA, to a Masters degree to a PhD is a process in which those stragglers at the dumb end of the bell curve are effectively weeded out. Once you get the opportunity to defend a PhD, 'being last in the class' no longer applies, so it's actually a pretty stupid metric to gauge whether or not the people considered actually know what they are talking about.

Actually, you could make the point that Twitter is a more reliable source for factual information - who needs peer reviews? - but then again I'd reckon that those who believe it to be so most likely were 'the last of their class' to begin with.

Frenchfry's tongue was firmly in cheek when s/he wrote that post. At least that's the way I took it.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

It's by no means certain that he doped last year. There is a possible natural explanation for his values that this blogger looks into... something to do with the 100 day Retic turnover restarting.

http://www.localcyclist.com/2009/09...-passport-part-two-of-a-tale-of-two-cyclists/

 

[trompe le monde]

Frenchfry's tongue was firmly in cheek when s/he wrote that post. At least that's the way I took it.

Really? Okay, then disregard what I wrote if that's the case.

 

[thehog]

1. I did study Armstrong's profiles. Only a nut job conspiracy theorist like yourself would claim a "spike". Want to contrast his with other top contenders? Oh thats right most of them didn't publish theirs.

Huh? But they did. CycleSport magazine compared them by using an overlay and the spike on Armstrong's was a strong cause for concern.

 

[Publicus]

I'm with you on that. The only reason I ever really noticed is because he and his camp were so vocal about how he dropped weight. It doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think he's gained any either, but he hasn't dropped what they said he did...whatever.

About your other point, I know what you mean. He looked sharp in Flanders and less than mediocre in every other race. I honestly think it's because he is bored just going through the motions in preparation for the Tour, but in Flanders he was actually having fun. In Cali we'll see him be the domestique for Levi and maybe test his legs a little bit in the mountain or in a break. By July, we'll see the same spike we saw in Flanders.

I'll be interested to see how he does at the Tour of California. He really has to show something there IMO.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Huh? But they did. CycleSport magazine compared them by using an overlay and the spike on Armstrong's was a strong cause for concern.

If you're talking about the spike before the tour, there is always a red blood cell increase in the week before the tour starts as they stop doing hard training and fully recover. Wiggins said he did virtually no riding at all in the week before last years tour. That is common.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

I'll be interested to see how he does at the Tour of California. He really has to show something there IMO.

He said in an interview after the Flanders that his form is not important and won't be of interest to other riders until June, and even then it won't matter a great deal. That's what he is claiming.

 

[ErmOkk]

Why does he have to show something? Did he ever show something in the past before the tour? For now it's sufficient to show his belly to keep the discussions going .

 

[thehog]

He said in an interview after the Flanders that his form is not important and won't be of interest to other riders until June, and even then it won't matter a great deal. That's what he is claiming.

Didn't someone once post a TommyD formula? Should this be applied to Armstrong at Gila? ToC?

 

[Publicus]

Why does he have to show something? Did he ever show something in the past before the tour? For now it's sufficient to show his belly to keep the discussions going .

I guess he doesn't.

What I meant is that if he is seriously to be considered by the media, his fans, or more importantly himself to be a contender for the TdF, then he needs to show some improvement. He's currently on track to race fewer kilometers pre-Tour and with less stellar results.

It certainly looks like he is very lean (save the belly breathing photos), so it should all start to fall into place over the next few weeks. Ideally, he would show something (not saying win) in Tour of California and then a few weeks later at the Tour de Suisse (again, not win). Just that he's able to compete with is own self-identified peers. Again, if he wants to be seen as a credible GT contender, which is what he's claimed.

 

[simmspin]

Change of direction...found this via twitter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0z1amMacHQ

There is no way that he could be descibed as fat - no real way to work out how old the video is, but probably from the past week given the Mellow Johnny's shirt - HOWEVER....it has to be said that he sounds really bored and unmotivated which is pretty much how his year seems to be playing out on the bike...

In his defence, it's not the most upbeat of topics to discuss, that may be why...

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

I guess he doesn't.

What I meant is that if he is seriously to be considered by the media, his fans, or more importantly himself to be a contender for the TdF, then he needs to show some improvement. He's currently on track to race fewer kilometers pre-Tour and with less stellar results.

It certainly looks like he is very lean (save the belly breathing photos), so it should all start to fall into place over the next few weeks. Ideally, he would show something (not saying win) in Tour of California and then a few weeks later at the Tour de Suisse (again, not win). Just that he's able to compete with is own self-identified peers. Again, if he wants to be seen as a credible GT contender, which is what he's claimed.

I know what you're saying, but most of his fans will only watch the TdF anyway, and it never mattered before what he did in pre-Tour races. I'd like to see him turn it up a bit as well, but if he doesn't I can't really see this changing the Tour hype - which is going to be less than last year in any event.

 

[flicker]

I know what you're saying, but most of his fans will only watch the TdF anyway, and it never mattered before what he did in pre-Tour races. I'd like to see him turn it up a bit as well, but if he doesn't I can't really see this changing the Tour hype - which is going to be less than last year in any event.

what do you mean, I watch the Leadville100?

 

[altark123]

Change of direction...found this via twitter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0z1amMacHQ

There is no way that he could be descibed as fat - no real way to work out how old the video is, but probably from the past week given the Mellow Johnny's shirt - HOWEVER....it has to be said that he sounds really bored and unmotivated which is pretty much how his year seems to be playing out on the bike...

In his defence, it's not the most upbeat of topics to discuss, that may be why...

Yeah, the only thing I think we can take from this is that he is lean and in shape apparently not matter how much others would like to claim he is "bloated" or looks "like my local club". On the upbeat/bored I don't think we can tell much at all from that video.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Interesting, that the record continues to go round and round.
The haters refuting with facts and evidence, while the fanboys pour out the hate and scorn.

He raced in the latter half of the Giro, so he needs to find some legs in Cali.
There's only so much worth in hanging on the back of the peloton.
It would be ridiculous, not to say miraculous, to hope to ride competitively at Tour speeds, without properly testing race fitness.

 

[frenchfry]

Yeah, the only thing I think we can take from this is that he is lean and in shape apparently not matter how much others would like to claim he is "bloated" or looks "like my local club". On the upbeat/bored I don't think we can tell much at all from that video.

We also learn that he is still using cancer as a marketing tool.

Or does Trek donate all their profits to fund cancer initiatives?

I'm guessing Lance is making enough off this great idea to fill up his private jet a few times.