The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[kurtinsc]

Why couldn't they strip him from the record books? Just declare no winner? Strip him of the record for most Tour victories in a row?

Obviously way premature to be discussing this, but it seems there are options beyond naming the second place finisher as the winner. Curious if they would go after the money.

It would be inconsistent with what they did with Riis, but I suppose they could.

The fact that they haven't done anything like that before makes me think it unlikely. If they take it away, I tend to think they'll name someone else the winner. It would seem odd though to say "Lance can't have the win because he doped... so we're going to give it to Ulrich, Zulle, Belloki, Basso and Kloden instead."

That would be like taking the single season homerun record away from barry bonds for steroid use... and giving it to Sammy Sosa or Mark McGuire.

 

[Berzin]

It would be inconsistent with what they did with Riis, but I suppose they could.

The fact that they haven't done anything like that before makes me think it unlikely. If they take it away, I tend to think they'll name someone else the winner. It would seem odd though to say "Lance can't have the win because he doped... so we're going to give it to Ulrich, Zulle, Belloki, Basso and Kloden instead."

That would be like taking the single season homerun record away from barry bonds for steroid use... and giving it to Sammy Sosa or Mark McGuire.

Exactly why they would probably leave those years blank and declare no overall winner.

How this compares to the Riis situation isn't relevant because he voluntarily confessed.

 

[kurtinsc]

Exactly why they would probably leave those years blank and declare no overall winner.

How this compares to the Riis situation isn't relevant because he voluntarily confessed.

Why not take away the 2nds for Ulrich or Basso? Why didn't the Vuelta take away Valverde's win?

Look... I'm not saying they shouldn't do what you say... I'm saying there isn't a bit of evidence that they will. There are a lot of cases with a lot in common with what might happen to Lance (although involving riders with a bit less prestige)... and the Tour hasn't don't anything.

You're giving the ASO WAAAAY too much credit in terms of how they handle doping offenses.

 

[hrotha]

It wouldn't be consistent to strip Armstrong of his titles, but if this blows up I wouldn't expect anyone to be consistent. If they think that'll help them survive the PR nuclear fallout, they'll do it.

 

[9000ft]

Berzin's quote doesn't have anything to do with any of those others riders. It has to do with his hatered of LA. He could care less if another rider who was no more or no less dishonest than LA about whether or not they used PEDs was declared the winner of the tour as long as LA goes down.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Berzin's quote doesn't have anything to do with any of those others riders. It has to do with his hatered of LA. He could care less if another rider who was no more or no less dishonest than LA about whether or not they used PEDs was declared the winner of the tour as long as LA goes down.

Your not wrong but lance is so manipulative and is a dragger into doping and others are dragged. He is poison. Other riders you can half like because they seem half genuine people even though they dope. They do it but they don't like it.

 

[joeyrobbo]

If (and it's a big if) Lance did get his 7 victories taken away.. Fat Jan would be a 4 time TDF GC winner!

Kloden would have his one victory, as would Zulle, Beloki and Basso..

 

[flicker]

Your not wrong but lance is so manipulative and is a dragger into doping and others are dragged. He is poison. Other riders you can half like because they seem half genuine people even though they dope. They do it but they don't like it.

Are you one of the posters who insinuates that Lance is the provider of and forces the whole peloton to dope? I always get the feeling on this forum that many people here believe this. Hence white devil satan hatred.
While Lance may not be perfect as a person, I do know that athletes are imperfect in many ways thus I do not hold Lance or any other person as role models in my life.
I do not put him on a pedestal I just enjoy the show. I have been watching his Tour exploits on DVD and I quite enjoy them.
Last weekend Lances' organization was involved in the sponsorship of a childs bike race honoring a son of a mother who was lost to Leukemia at 7 years old.
My child participated crashed got up and won the race.
If you would like more details feel free to contact me.

 

[eleven]

Your not wrong but lance is so manipulative and is a dragger into doping and others are dragged. He is poison. Other riders you can half like because they seem half genuine people even though they dope. They do it but they don't like it.

I guess I'll never understand where this uber-inflated sense Armstrong's power and the evil attributed to his nature comes from. I can only surmise that it stems from spending far too much time allowing this forum to dictate one's understanding.

 

[flicker]

Berzin, you are so silly:


Quote:
Originally Posted by flicker
Floyd Landis as well, a pillar of virtue, Floyd.
As opposed to the pillar of virtue that is your hero Lance Armstrong, eh?

While Floyd has many victories he lost credibility in how he fought his doping pos. His treatment of LeMond WADA, the labs, the French officials were irehensible.
I hold Floyd responsable for the removal of Phonak from the peloton. Many riders lost their jobs. Did the teamates of Floyd compensated for their hard work that they did for Floyd?
His actions lately have caused more destruction to our sport.
Sorry I do not compare Floyd to Lance.

 

[9000ft]

I guess I'll never understand where this uber-inflated sense Armstrong's power and the evil attributed to his nature comes from. I can only surmise that it stems from spending far too much time allowing this forum to dictate one's understanding.

I don't understand it either. I mean, we're talking about a bike racer in a sport that is in the business of entertainment. Big bucks, pretty girls, sponsors messages everywhere you look, you know, that sort of thing.

The whole pathological hatred of LA that some who post here is really quite fascinating to me, but I can't hate (or love) LA anymore than I could hate (or love) a good guy or bad guy in pro wrestling.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I don't understand it either. I mean, we're talking about a bike racer in a sport that is in the business of entertainment. Big bucks, pretty girls, sponsors messages everywhere you look, you know, that sort of thing.

The whole pathological hatred of LA that some who post here is really quite fascinating to me, but I can't hate (or love) LA anymore than I could hate (or love) a good guy or bad guy in pro wrestling.

Exactly.

The comparison to pro wrestling is quite apt, and I've made it before.

I find it pathetic that so many get so worked up with respect to admiring or hating LA. He is poison? Give me a break.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't understand it either. I mean, we're talking about a bike racer in a sport that is in the business of entertainment. Big bucks, pretty girls, sponsors messages everywhere you look, you know, that sort of thing.

The whole pathological hatred of LA that some who post here is really quite fascinating to me, but I can't hate (or love) LA anymore than I could hate (or love) a good guy or bad guy in pro wrestling.

Ding ding: There is the difference between you and many here.
Cycling fans don't look at it as 'entertainment' - this is a sport and to me the best sport there is. Your view is from a rider - in this case Armstrong - not the sport.

I guess I'll never understand where this uber-inflated sense Armstrong's power and the evil attributed to his nature comes from. I can only surmise that it stems from spending far too much time allowing this forum to dictate one's understanding.

No-one said evil - but ignoring your strawman - ask away, I will happily help you understand how Armstrong sucks all the air for his own benefit from the sport.

As an aperitif - which rider has amassed more than $100million from the sport then gives generously to the sporting authorities that do doping controls?
Which athlete has the luxury of having an investigation started to see if an investigation is required to investigate finding EPO in a sample?
The answer is the same athlete who has the head of the UCI willing to lie about how tests were conducted.

(PS if you're think Valverde that would be wrong)

 

[eleven]

No-one said evil - but ignoring your strawman - ask away,

Eh, no one here has called Armstrong evil? I could use the search function, but I think the results would be rather overwhelming.

As an aperitif - which rider has amassed more than $100million from the sport then gives generously to the sporting authorities that do doping controls?

So your complaint is that Armstrong made more money than the next guy? Why the heck do you care if he made $100 or $100 million? He hired the right people and got the right endorsements and made a fortune. Good on him. The same goes for all pro athletes who properly manage their own brand.

Which athlete has the luxury of having an investigation started to see if an investigation is required to investigate finding EPO in a sample?
The answer is the same athlete who has the head of the UCI willing to lie about how tests were conducted.

Any rider could get an investigation started in that instance. That Armstrong did so isn't indication of his uber-power or his alleged evil nature. It's an indication that he has surrounded himself with smart people.

 

[Mellow Velo]

In theory, Armstrong could only have his 2003/4/5 wins taken off him, no?
Surely the time statute has run out on the others.
In anycase, it won't happen, regardless of what dug up dirt, sticks.

Besides, we'd have OPs Ullrich and Basso, plus the Freiburg Phantom replacing him on the roll of winners. Nice.


PS.
Shows we are in the middle of the Tour's big, black newshole; two weeks of nothingness, as all these fine athletes get time off to "prepare".
This thread is the pits, but it's about the only one that is ticking over.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

So your complaint is that Armstrong made more money than the next guy? Why the heck do you care if he made $100 or $100 million? He hired the right people and got the right endorsements and made a fortune. Good on him. The same goes for all pro athletes who properly manage their own brand.

What animals do you sacrifice at the altar to Mammon?

The ability to make money is your guide to goodness? Did you flunk outta Sunday School to earn your MBA?

While you're at it, why don't you praise the good men and women managers of Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros, General Motors and.....oh... Bernie Madoff, Richard Fuld.

Yeah. Good. On. Them. Sheesh.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Eh, no one here has called Armstrong evil? I could use the search function, but I think the results would be rather overwhelming.

Then search it!
I just did, there are only 2 pages - people like 'Carboncrank', 'Flicker' & now yourself are the main ones using that term - again as a strawman as it was not used to portray Armstrong.

So your complaint is that Armstrong made more money than the next guy? Why the heck do you care if he made $100 or $100 million? He hired the right people and got the right endorsements and made a fortune. Good on him. The same goes for all pro athletes who properly manage their own brand.

Wow did I say that - i haven't even started drinking yet....

As an aperitif - which rider has amassed more than $100million from the sport then gives generously to the sporting authorities that do doping controls?

.....ah, I didn't say that, phew.
I have no problem with anyone including Lance making money from contracts or endorsements (but he should not have any personal gain from Livestrong.com in IMO) - so these leaves the part of that sentence you ignored.

Any rider could get an investigation started in that instance. That Armstrong did so isn't indication of his uber-power or his alleged evil nature. It's an indication that he has surrounded himself with smart people.

"Evil nature"? - see 1st paragraph.

Yes - and any rider should. 'Surrounded himself by smart people'? or pay off dumb people?

 

[Race Radio]

Eh, no one here has called Armstrong evil? I could use the search function, but I think the results would be rather overwhelming.

So your complaint is that Armstrong made more money than the next guy? Why the heck do you care if he made $100 or $100 million? He hired the right people and got the right endorsements and made a fortune. Good on him. The same goes for all pro athletes who properly manage their own brand.

Any rider could get an investigation started in that instance. That Armstrong did so isn't indication of his uber-power or his alleged evil nature. It's an indication that he has surrounded himself with smart people.

A post straight from the handbook

 

[hrotha]

I for one believe Armstrong is positively evil.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I was thinking the same thing. If LA isn't racing, what will become of the LA thread? What will all the LA posters (including me) do without our favorite lightning rod? Talk about racing? Who could possibly take the place of LA as a subject for good juicy gossip and inspiration for foaming flame fests?

I suppose he'll probably stay involved in some sort of capacity or another with Radio Shack, but that just won't be the same. Good for maybe a quarter of the posts per day generated on the OLAT. It will take forever to reach the magical 1000 post landmark if that is what happens.

I don't know what the forum members will do, but, boy, am I ever looking forward to it.

 

[Tom T.]

He'll still be around, probably involved with RS.......if they even bother to stay in business.

 

[Tom T.]

Interesting tweet yesterday from Lance: "Last hard ride before the TdF. Test on the Col de la Madone. Record time? No. Close to it? Yes. I'm ready.
3:40 AM Jun 28th via UberTwitter"

Sounds like Tom Danielson.

 

[Oldman]

I don't know what the forum members will do, but, boy, am I ever looking forward to it.

Those deeply committed LA fans could flirt with a real life for a change.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Those deeply committed LA fans could flirt with a real life for a change.

I don't want to veer this thread off into the God Zone, but that's what happens when you view a man as a messianic figure. We're all pretty fallible, and his efforts to sell himself as something greater than that is his undoing. I believe the word is 'hubris'.

Now his worshippers have to try and make sense of it.

 

[ckfrancis]

what to do

what will all of you haters and lovers do next year. how to fill the void.

girlfriends? looks like there is a need here.

maybe we could channel this massive amount of love/hate energy into a solution for the gulf.