The Official Lance Hating Thread

[BigBoat]

THE BEST ONE!


http://www.maximumawesome.com/dave/lancearmstrong.htm

 

[rapistwit]

Funny, because you share much of the FB philosophy.

Really? I'm a fanboy? And there's a philosophy to it?
If so, I guess there's also a philosophy with the Armstrong haters too-
Minimize all transgressions of other riders while exaggerating Armstrong's.
If all you can do is say someone is a FB you must not have a counter argument.
The whole point I have been trying to make is that Lance hatred is disproportionate considering most (if not all) of the professional peleton is juiced.

 

[franciep10]

Sorry Franciep10. My apologies. Didn't mean to clump you to anything.

Doperman could have chased Floyd, Tyler or even Basso in the TOC and I'd probably have said the same thing though. It is kind of sad.

no prob Alpe


also you guys need to read this it is hilarious , trust me read it
http://cyclingforums.com/t357155.html

 

[franciep10]

Really? I'm a fanboy? And there's a philosophy to it?
If so, I guess there's also a philosophy with the Armstrong haters too-
Minimize all transgressions of other riders while exaggerating Armstrong's.
If all you can do is say someone is a FB you must not have a counter argument.
The whole point I have been trying to make is that Lance hatred is disproportionate considering most (if not all) of the professional peleton is juiced.

trust me you're not gonna win this just move along

 

[Condorman]

Is this why Lance won't wear white socks?

 

[rhubroma]

i like lance.. do i know he doped in 99 yes.. do i think he may have in other years, quite possibly..

but ignoring the drugs and looking at just the racing.. do i think he had some amazing tussles with pantani that i enjoyed, yes, do i think he whupped fat ullrichs ***.. yes.. do i think moto/disco at full strength climbing mountains was one of the most impressive things ive seen in cycling, yes, (and it was nice to see shades of that the other day from liquigas, however bad an idea it was.. there is nothing like one team, taking control and leading from the front)

im just always confused why a doped american is more unpopular than a fat doped german.. maybe we are letting our european, anti-american feelings cloud our judgement.. bush and blair for instance, i hate them both equally, i dont let the fact that bush was an egotistical, cheating, money laundering, war mongering american cloud my judgement.. i treat him and blair just the same..

All fine points Dimspace. Everyone is entitled to like or not an athlete for his athetic gestures. Pantani was fantastic to watch, even though he was doped. If I had to eliminate every rider who was doped as a requisite for liking them, I'd have to choos another sport to watch like tiddlywinks . And I certainly have been blown away by Lance's phenominal Tour feats, even though I had nearly prayed to the Almighty (and I don't even have faith) that someone would beat the *******!

In other words, I have made a distinction between athletic prowess, personality and style. On the later two acounts, Lance has always been a most unsupportable character. Had he risked more during his career and done other events besides the Tour to win them, even at the expense of the French race, I'd have appreciated his generosity. But the man has no generosity, has been a completely ungenerous athlete. Then the Simeoni affair was the cherry on the pie and demonstrated to me that the Texan is a most unlikable fellow, a cycling version of Bush the international policy maker. Horrendous!

This and the fact that all his major competition, plus so many ex-teammates have paid the price for their doping, but Lance has not (hum, I wonder why? Is it because the guy is an industry maker and the UCI won't shoot itself in the foot by nailing him?) makes the hypocracy surrounding the persona and his career disgusting. The frankness with which he has gotten away with it is shameful.

As far as anti-Americanism goes, it comes with the territory I suppose. Frankly on some issues the phenomenon is entirely justified. And if some Americans don't like it, perhaps they should clean up their own yards rather than use it as an alibi to deride the French or other Euros. Besides there has been plenty of anti-Europeanism coming out of the US, for example when French wines have been refused or when French fries have been called Freedom Fries instead. It's this kind of narrow mindedness and unwillingness to even contemplate any form of criticism that challenges the superpower's propaganda or the so called American way of life, while at the same time having little consideration for foreign culture and believing that those doing the criticism are simply envious of America (as if only the US had a valid "way to live"), that has made the American idea/l not seem so nice to many people around the globe. But this is America's problem not the rest of the world's. Of course in Europe there is a much stronger culture of self-criticism among individual states and, naturally, criticism between the EU nations. So your placing Bush and Blair in the same basket doesn't surprise. On the other hand, many Americans mistake criticism coming out of Europe toward US foreign, economic, and military policy for anti-Americanism, when in fact it has nothing to do with the US people at large, but Washington.

I think Lance has, for many of those who are not his fans in Europe, in some way been viewed as cycling's incarnation of many of the above mentioned points. In other ways, of course, he hasn't. For example he has been truely charmed by France, Italy and Spain, but I don't think he has ever understood one damn thing about their cultures. Or if he has, he is incapable of rendering himself friendly toward them.

 

[rapistwit]

trust me you're not gonna win this just move along

Win what? Just trying to make a point.

 

[elapid]

Minimize all transgressions of other riders while exaggerating Armstrong's. If all you can do is say someone is a FB you must not have a counter argument. The whole point I have been trying to make is that Lance hatred is disproportionate considering most (if not all) of the professional peleton is juiced.

Maybe I shouldn't be entering this argument, but Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping. It started in 1999 with the so-called "Tour of Redemption". Instead of cleaning up cycling, Lance, as the winner of the TdF and leader of the pack, embraced the omerta and never spoke or acted against drugs. In fact, at the start of the 2000 TdF, he said "I'm sick of the myth of widespread doping." Even worse, he swears at outspoken non-dopers such as Bassons, chases down Simeoni for daring to speak out about his doctor (Ferrari) and doping, isolates Frankie Andreau for telling the truth about himself having taken EPO, and offers his full support to friends guilty of doping but silent (Basso, Hamilton, Flandis). He controlled the press room by excluding all reporters that dared to ask difficult questions. So, Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping, but what he does (or rather, not do) against doping and what squandered potential he had to make it much better. In failing to live up to his potential in this regard, he has destroyed the magic of cycling to many fans by destroying our innocence. We no longer marvel at a wonderful stage and a great battle, because our response to such feats are now "I wonder what drugs he is taking?". And that is just sad. Thanks for nothing Lance!

 

[tifosa]

Armstrong is no more manipulative than the internet trolls who bash or praise. They are each fulfilling their personal agendas.

 

[BikeCentric]

Maybe I shouldn't be entering this argument, but Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping. It started in 1999 with the so-called "Tour of Redemption". Instead of cleaning up cycling, Lance, as the winner of the TdF and leader of the pack, embraced the omerta and never spoke or acted against drugs. In fact, at the start of the 2000 TdF, he said "I'm sick of the myth of widespread doping." Even worse, he swears at outspoken non-dopers such as Bassons, chases down Simeoni for daring to speak out about his doctor (Ferrari) and doping, isolates Frankie Andreau for telling the truth about himself having taken EPO, and offers his full support to friends guilty of doping but silent (Basso, Hamilton, Flandis). He controlled the press room by excluding all reporters that dared to ask difficult questions. So, Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping, but what he does (or rather, not do) against doping and what squandered potential he had to make it much better. In failing to live up to his potential in this regard, he has destroyed the magic of cycling to many fans by destroying our innocence. We no longer marvel at a wonderful stage and a great battle, because our response to such feats are now "I wonder what drugs he is taking?". And that is just sad. Thanks for nothing Lance!

+100

Very well said.

 

[rapistwit]

Maybe I shouldn't be entering this argument, but Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping. It started in 1999 with the so-called "Tour of Redemption". Instead of cleaning up cycling, Lance, as the winner of the TdF and leader of the pack, embraced the omerta and never spoke or acted against drugs. In fact, at the start of the 2000 TdF, he said "I'm sick of the myth of widespread doping." Even worse, he swears at outspoken non-dopers such as Bassons, chases down Simeoni for daring to speak out about his doctor (Ferrari) and doping, isolates Frankie Andreau for telling the truth about himself having taken EPO, and offers his full support to friends guilty of doping but silent (Basso, Hamilton, Flandis). He controlled the press room by excluding all reporters that dared to ask difficult questions. So, Lance hatred is not disproportionate because it is not just about doping, but what he does (or rather, not do) against doping and what squandered potential he had to make it much better. In failing to live up to his potential in this regard, he has destroyed the magic of cycling to many fans by destroying our innocence. We no longer marvel at a wonderful stage and a great battle, because our response to such feats are now "I wonder what drugs he is taking?". And that is just sad. Thanks for nothing Lance!

There are two ways to look at that. Armstrong, rightly or wrongly, is under a hell of lot more scrutiny than any other cyclist.
And to claim Armsrong brought down cycling is silly. Doping didn't start in 1999.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

 

[nobody]

There are two ways to look at that. Armstrong, rightly or wrongly, is under a hell of lot more scrutiny than any other cyclist.
And to claim Armsrong brought down cycling is silly. Doping didn't start in 1999.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Of course doping didn't start in 1999 but with Festina there was a possibility to change some things, and to left the big team doping culture who was born with EPO.
Just have a look at what was done by the French and how they have done well. They did it so it was possible.

If you don't race you will never win. If you don't try you will never achieve it.

 

[BikeCentric]

And to claim Armsrong brought down cycling is silly. Doping didn't start in 1999.

LOL who claimed that? In all the Lance hatred in this thread no one has even come close to claiming anything like "Armstrong brought down cycling" or "doping started in 1999." Come on buddy, if you're going to troll at least be skilled about it. Deliberate misinterpretation of peoples' posts is a childs game.

 

[rapistwit]

LOL who claimed that? In all the Lance hatred in this thread no one has even come close to claiming anything like "Armstrong brought down cycling" or "doping started in 1999." Come on buddy, if you're going to troll at least be skilled about it. Deliberate misinterpretation of peoples' posts is a childs game.

Try reading posts before you comment. Elapid wrote

In failing to live up to his potential in this regard, he has destroyed the magic of cycling to many fans by destroying our innocence. We no longer marvel at a wonderful stage and a great battle, because our response to such feats are now "I wonder what drugs he is taking?". And that is just sad. Thanks for nothing Lance!

 

[pmcg76]

There are two ways to look at that. Armstrong, rightly or wrongly, is under a hell of lot more scrutiny than any other cyclist.
And to claim Armsrong brought down cycling is silly. Doping didn't start in 1999.

Ok, I dont think anybody is saying Lance started doping or brought the sport down. In 1999, there was a chance to break the 'law of silence' that existed in the peloton as it was obvious doping was widespread after Festina affair in 98.

Lance by his actions or inactions reinforced this 'law of silence' by pleading ignorance about doping and bullying C.Bassons. His Tour victory elevated him to global superstar overnight and if he had spoken openly about doping in cycling, it could have helped smash the 'Law of silence' forever. Instead, cycling reverted to the dope fuelled disaster it had been before.

I would love to hear your take on his incident with Filippo Simeoni in 2004 which was much worse and with your obvious wide knowledge of cycling, can find a comparable incident in cycling history.

 

[rapistwit]

Of course doping didn't start in 1999 but with Festina there was a possibility to change some things, and to left the big team doping culture who was born with EPO.
Just have a look at what was done by the French and how they have done well. They did it so it was possible.

If you don't race you will never win. If you don't try you will never achieve it.

I guess you're not getting the comment. Elapid accused Armstrong of destoying cycling in the eyes of many because of his alleged doping. Lance didn't bring the doping culture to cycling and cycling had been badly tarnished prior to his Tour wins.
So being angry at him for supposedly cheating is one thing but to blame him for cyclings current sad state of affairs is another all together.

 

[rapistwit]

There are two ways to look at that. Armstrong, rightly or wrongly, is under a hell of lot more scrutiny than any other cyclist.
And to claim Armsrong brought down cycling is silly. Doping didn't start in 1999.

Ok, I dont think anybody is saying Lance started doping or brought the sport down. In 1999, there was a chance to break the 'law of silence' that existed in the peloton as it was obvious doping was widespread after Festina affair in 98.

Lance by his actions or inactions reinforced this 'law of silence' by pleading ignorance about doping and bullying C.Bassons. His Tour victory elevated him to global superstar overnight and if he had spoken openly about doping in cycling, it could have helped smash the 'Law of silence' forever. Instead, cycling reverted to the dope fuelled disaster it had been before.

I would love to hear your take on his incident with Filippo Simeoni in 2004 which was much worse and with your obvious wide knowledge of cycling, can find a comparable incident in cycling history.

Its all a catch 22. No one doping is going to admit it (unless caught red handed, under oath or able to make a buck off a tell all book). Do any of you think any serious contender is going to throw up his arms and say "hell yes I have been doing it for years"? They all are going to defend their position. As wrong as that may be, that's all armstrong is doing.
My guess is that all the top riders know everyone is doping so they can rationalize their behavior.
The Simeoni affair seems a little too vindictive but it doesn't raise my hackles too much. I would be more sympathetic if he didn't act like a two year old and return his national jersey.

 

[pmcg76]

The Simeoni affair seems a little too vindictive but it doesn't raise my hackles too much. I would be more sympathetic if he didn't act like a two year old and return his national jersey.

Not talking about Simeoni returning the jersey, 2004 Tour de France, Lance chasing Simeoni down for no obvious reason. What was that about? Forget about what happened this year

Hear what you are saying about no other champions speaking out but the point is, Lance was so much bigger than any other champions and became richer than any other champions, he transcended the sport, average Joe knows Lance but no other cyclists, he was a global superstar, even now there are those that claim Lance is the saviour of cycling, bigger crowds, increased media presence, saving races(Tour of Gila) etc.

If there was one guy who could have had a positive affect on changing the 'Law of silence' and helped change the direcion of the sport, it was Lance. That is why I single him out above other champions, he was/is bigger than other champions, surely it comprehensible to dislike him for not doing something when lesser lights like Bassons, J.C.Robin were speaking out.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

+100

Very well said.

+200.

(This text necessary to reach 10 character minimum)

 

[rapistwit]

Not talking about Simeoni returning the jersey, 2004 Tour de France, Lance chasing Simeoni down for no obvious reason. What was that about? Forget about what happened this year

Hear what you are saying about no other champions speaking out but the point is, Lance was so much bigger than any other champions and became richer than any other champions, he transcended the sport, average Joe knows Lance but no other cyclists, he was a global superstar, even now there are those that claim Lance is the saviour of cycling, bigger crowds, increased media presence, saving races(Tour of Gila) etc.

If there was one guy who could have had a positive affect on changing the 'Law of silence' and helped change the direcion of the sport, it was Lance. That is why I single him out above other champions, he was/is bigger than other champions, surely it comprehensible to dislike him for not doing something when lesser lights like Bassons, J.C.Robin were speaking out.

I remember him chasing him down a meaningless break until Simeoni returned to the peleton. And that it had to do with Simeoni-Ferrari doping scandal and Armstrong calling him a liar. It was something I didn't really care that much about, just a personal feud.

 

[BigBoat]

Simeoni still dopes too!

Lance is a complete *** for going off on his mouth about being clean all these years. He's gone out of his way to say it... Ullrich always just said "no comment" and Basso avoided it quite a bit too.

If he'd been clean who knows, he might not have ever even been in the Tour. He sure as hell would not have finished one of them as high as the pace was in his day (and again is now I think.) At best his V02 max talent gives him 50-75 places, and thats his VERY BEST. AS I said it probably is a DNF unless you get a Tour like last year which had less blood dopers in the race minus Trek-Astana. He's not nearly as talented as some guys have been thats for sure.

And the cancer thing... Who has not F-ing heard of cancer? "Cancer awareness" give me an ****ing break! Google "I hate Lance Armstrong" and you get a crapload of cancer patients/ renal dialysis patients that hate the ***!

Lance is a *** and deserves to be taken down... He was a delinquent as a kid and virtually had no parent unless you include that crazy who's had 5 husbands (maybe more??), turned criminal. All the riders at the top are criminals. The sport is dominated by whomever dopes to the max.

Lance is using the sport and its media as a bunch of tools. Cycling is a joke and face it, most in America take it as big F-ing joke >>> something to honk or run off the road.

 

[ElChingon]

Google "I hate Lance Armstrong" and you get a crapload of cancer patients/ renal dialysis patients that hate the ***!

I had to look it up and WOW that's a ton of hits for that! OUCH!

and virtually had no parent unless you include that crazy who's had 5 husbands (maybe more??),

I've always wondered about that. Shows a bad pattern and Lance is replicating it which means he is so close that he is under the same mentality regarding relationships. Truly sad, lets hope his kids don't spend too much time with him so Kristen (sp?) can correct that or take it out of um.

 

[pmcg76]

I remember him chasing him down a meaningless break until Simeoni returned to the peleton. And that it had to do with Simeoni-Ferrari doping scandal and Armstrong calling him a liar. It was something I didn't really care that much about, just a personal feud.

A minor feud you might think but for many including myself this was the incident that showed Lance was a complete d**k and led to many cycling fans disliking him.

Sorry to rake over old coals, but a recap:

Simeoni was testifying against the doctor most closely associated with doping in cyling, a case that had started in 1999 before Lance was even associated with Dr.Ferrari. Simeoni had admitted to doping, served his ban and was testifying to the role of Ferrari in doping cyclists. Lance only got involved when his associtaion with Ferrari became public in 2002. He called Simeoni a liar twice even though he didnt know Simeoni personally, the Italian threatened to sue but very little was known about the affair until the Tour incident.

Firstly, the leader/winner of the Tour chasing down a lowly rider to ensure he doesnt win is considered less than savoury. Its just not part of cycling etiquette, like Jan waiting on Lance etc, perhaps someone can think of a similar incident.

Chasing him down because he was helping to bring down a doping doctor was/is completely wrong in the eyes of fans who want a clean sport. When asked afterward Lance said he was "protecting the interests of the peloton" whatever that meant, unless it meant protecting those who wished to dope.

On any level, what Lance done was just wrong and reason enough on its own to dislike him, maybe for you it was a minor affair of no interest but for the majority of cycling fans, it illustrated what kind of Lance truly is and more justifies any hatred of Lance.

 

[franciep10]

Cycling is a joke and face it, most in America take it as big F-ing joke >>> something to honk or run off the road.

Since you are clearly not a fan of cycling then why do you post here, let me answer my own question because you like to talk about doping, I have hardly ever heard you talking about actual cycling unless it's about doping talk. I don't want to call you a troll but what are you trying to do.

 

[BikeCentric]

Chasing him down because he was helping to bring down a doping doctor was/is completely wrong in the eyes of fans who want a clean sport. When asked afterward Lance said he was "protecting the interests of the peloton" whatever that meant, unless it meant protecting those who wished to dope.

Pharmstrong also stated at the time that "Simeoni and people like him want to destroy cycling." This implies that anyone who speaks out against doping "wants to destroy cycling." Of course anyone with half a brain realizes that doping itself is what is destroying cycling and ruining the credibility of the sport. With this quote, Armstrong publicly declared his loyalty to the old order of doping and became a very public enforcer of Omerta. This is yet another reason why people hate the *******.

Keep the hate flowing people - we're getting up on 200 replies. Remember, hatred can make you a faster bike rider! For example:

"I love the mountains, but the moment of exertion fills me with deep hatred. So I try to shorten the suffering." -Marco Pantani

My hatred for Pharmstrong helps to fuel my interval sessions.