Teams & Riders The official Primož Roglič is the new Rominger thread

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Rogla the sprinter after the stage:

“It was too tough a climb for a sprinter,” Roglic joked. “I didn't have my very best day, but in the end I can't be dissatisfied with the result. I am still good in the rankings and I am very happy about that. Of course you'd rather not waste time, but it is what it is. The team was again very strong and very impressive. They all ride at a high level. I want to apologize to Sepp, because he certainly could have won the stage. But I also want to thank him for the support in the last kilometers. Without him I would have lost more time. Now we will first enjoy the rest day and then we will focus on the time trial. We will continue to give everything to win the Vuelta. Everything is still possible in the third week. ”


He even apologizes to Kuss :D
 
Rogla the sprinter after the stage:

“It was too tough a climb for a sprinter,” Roglic joked. “I didn't have my very best day, but in the end I can't be dissatisfied with the result. I am still good in the rankings and I am very happy about that. Of course you'd rather not waste time, but it is what it is. The team was again very strong and very impressive. They all ride at a high level. I want to apologize to Sepp, because he certainly could have won the stage. But I also want to thank him for the support in the last kilometers. Without him I would have lost more time. Now we will first enjoy the rest day and then we will focus on the time trial. We will continue to give everything to win the Vuelta. Everything is still possible in the third week. ”


He even apologizes to Kuss :D

Prue Class that lad!
 
Oct 2, 2020
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So he wins the Vuelta's stage 13 ITT but some observers still think he underperformed. As I was watching, I thought he didn't look so great on the flat part (by Roglic standards) but exceeded expectations on the climb. Overall, using the Roglic TT grading scale of 1 to 10, I would give him a 7.5 on this one. Very good, but not thermonuclear.
 
You could tell that was the tactic. Starting slower, gaining later and especially on the climb. I think it was the right tactic, he won the stage afterall, but I don't think the team wa expecting gap to be so small. They probably thought Carthy and Carapaz will be somewhere around Martin or Mas.

They probably had the same tactic in the Tour TT as well, but that fell down the drain when Pogačar was so much quicker on the flat already. And he had to go quicker than expected so he exploded on the climb in the end (like Carapaz today). If he went with his own pace he would probabla finish around Dumoulin or even a couple of second ahead. The problem was Pogačar would already have a minute on him before the climb even started.

And I do get the feeling that Roglič did not focus on the TT as much during the off season but more on the climbing. His climbing performances before the Dauphine crash (and even in the Tour) were out of this world, but the TT is a bit worse than last year. Still, he rode two international TTs this year, Won one and finished top 5 in the other. Not a disaster.
 
Oct 2, 2020
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You could tell that was the tactic. Starting slower, gaining later and especially on the climb. I think it was the right tactic, he won the stage afterall, but I don't think the team wa expecting gap to be so small. They probably thought Carthy and Carapaz will be somewhere around Martin or Mas.

They probably had the same tactic in the Tour TT as well, but that fell down the drain when Pogačar was so much quicker on the flat already. And he had to go quicker than expected so he exploded on the climb in the end (like Carapaz today). If he went with his own pace he would probabla finish around Dumoulin or even a couple of second ahead. The problem was Pogačar would already have a minute on him before the climb even started.

And I do get the feeling that Roglič did not focus on the TT as much during the off season but more on the climbing. His climbing performances before the Dauphine crash (and even in the Tour) were out of this world, but the TT is a bit worse than last year. Still, he rode two international TTs this year, Won one and finished top 5 in the other. Not a disaster.
Great points. I also think the Dauphine crash was really a bad one--probably reset (set back) his form for the Tour. I wonder whether, without the Dauphine crash, Rog may have taken more time on Pogi before the final ITT, and maybe the finishing times on that stage would have been even closer. We'll never know.
 
You could tell that was the tactic. Starting slower, gaining later and especially on the climb. I think it was the right tactic, he won the stage afterall, but I don't think the team wa expecting gap to be so small. They probably thought Carthy and Carapaz will be somewhere around Martin or Mas.

They probably had the same tactic in the Tour TT as well, but that fell down the drain when Pogačar was so much quicker on the flat already. And he had to go quicker than expected so he exploded on the climb in the end (like Carapaz today). If he went with his own pace he would probabla finish around Dumoulin or even a couple of second ahead. The problem was Pogačar would already have a minute on him before the climb even started.

And I do get the feeling that Roglič did not focus on the TT as much during the off season but more on the climbing. His climbing performances before the Dauphine crash (and even in the Tour) were out of this world, but the TT is a bit worse than last year. Still, he rode two international TTs this year, Won one and finished top 5 in the other. Not a disaster.
Roglic tactically did to Carapaz what Pogacar did to him: induce him to overcommit on the flat while still keeping reserves. We can't know exactly what the follow cars communicate but it's a common tactic if you know how well the trailing competitor is doing. It works particularly well into a headwind as the strength differentials get exaggerated. Primoz and his crew would know how he felt and stay within himself while Carapaz may respond as though it were an all-out effort. Ineos staff play a big part in this so it's not just on the rider.
IMHO Primoz didn't need to win it; just put enough time into Carthy and Carapaz to force them to be aggressive in the last week. That he did win it was pure bonus and scores some psych points.
Notice that JV's guys pretty much mailed in their effort (except Gesink!!!?) to be fresh for tomorrow.
 
Roglic tactically did to Carapaz what Pogacar did to him: induce him to overcommit on the flat while still keeping reserves. We can't know exactly what the follow cars communicate but it's a common tactic if you know how well the trailing competitor is doing. It works particularly well into a headwind as the strength differentials get exaggerated. Primoz and his crew would know how he felt and stay within himself while Carapaz may respond as though it were an all-out effort. Ineos staff play a big part in this so it's not just on the rider.
IMHO Primoz didn't need to win it; just put enough time into Carthy and Carapaz to force them to be aggressive in the last week. That he did win it was pure bonus and scores some psych points.
Notice that JV's guys pretty much mailed in their effort (except Gesink!!!?) to be fresh for tomorrow.
Bennett and Kuss were only 3 minutes down which is probably full gas or close to that for them.
 
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Okay, he won so that looks good, but wouldn't you expect a peak Roglic to beat Will Barta by more than one second on a stage like that?
Looking at his face and posture on the finish he had plenty to spare on the climb. Again, he's racing against Carapaz and Carthy and knows exactly their pace. Barta isn't on his radar. There is another long stage tomorrow and the rest of the Vuelta to finish so he could gauge the damage done to competitors easily and not hobble himself. That's how GT's get won.
 
Roglic tactically did to Carapaz what Pogacar did to him: induce him to overcommit on the flat while still keeping reserves.
Not at all comparable. Roglic was considered to be the better ITT'er and had a 1 minute lead. Every sensible human being expected that Pogacar was going to blow up on the climb, considering he had never shown anything close to being worldclass on flat ITT's and was now putting down one of the best times on the flat section.
 
Looking at his face and posture on the finish he had plenty to spare on the climb. Again, he's racing against Carapaz and Carthy and knows exactly their pace. Barta isn't on his radar. There is another long stage tomorrow and the rest of the Vuelta to finish so he could gauge the damage done to competitors easily and not hobble himself. That's how GT's get won.
I don't think he gets quite as much information during the race as you seem to believe. It's true, he seemed more within himself than in the Tour but it wasn't exactly the cream of the crop he was facing.

I'm questioning whether this performance was that much better physically than the one in the Tour. I certainly don't think Barta would have cracked the top 5 there.

Edit: And yes, I am aware of the difference between the parcours.
 
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I don't think he gets quite as much information during the race as you seem to believe. It's true, he seemed more within himself than in the Tour but it wasn't exactly the cream of the crop he was facing.

I'm questioning whether this performance was that much better physically than the one in the Tour. I certainly don't think Barta would have cracked the top 5 there.

Edit: And yes, I am aware of the difference between the parcours.
Pure numbers wise, adjusted for duration and descents in the PDBF ITT, probably not?

His climb was definitely better than in the Tour. And I think in his climbing and overall level in the Tour was considerably higher as well, so all in absolute terms it's worse but in relative terms it's considerably better.
 
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Barta has probably been targeting this stage all race. A bit like when Chad Haga won the TT at the 2018 Giro.
Maybe but it's after a rest day. Also, Barta has been hanging on quite a while in the mountains, so it's not quite the same. Also, Oliveira was only ten seconds behind, and he has never before been that close to winning an ITT in a Grand Tour. He does have one other third place in the Tour but on that occasion he was beaten by Dumoulin with more than a minute and a half.
 
Maybe but it's after a rest day. Also, Barta has been hanging on quite a while in the mountains, so it's not quite the same. Also, Oliveira was only ten seconds behind, and he has never before been that close to winning an ITT in a Grand Tour. He does have one other third place in the Tour but on that occasion he was beaten by Dumoulin with more than a minute and a half.
Don't think many here claim Roglic is a better TTer than Dumoulin. A top shape Dumoulin can probably go a minute faster here.
 
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Don't think many here claim Roglic is a better TTer than Dumoulin. A top shape Dumoulin can probably go a minute faster here.
Yeah, probably. But still, is Oliveira as good now as he has been?

It's difficult to assess, really, I'm not just being a pain in the butt for the lol of it. But I definitely don't think any bags can be considered closed and zipped.
 
Yeah, probably. But still, is Oliveira as good now as he has been?

It's difficult to assess, really, I'm not just being a pain in the butt for the lol of it. But I definitely don't think any bags can be considered closed and zipped.
Not totally, but a regular 3rd Vuelta week would look super exciting right now, but on this route Roglic shouldn normally be the heavy favorite.
 
I don't think he gets quite as much information during the race as you seem to believe. It's true, he seemed more within himself than in the Tour but it wasn't exactly the cream of the crop he was facing.

I'm questioning whether this performance was that much better physically than the one in the Tour. I certainly don't think Barta would have cracked the top 5 there.

Edit: And yes, I am aware of the difference between the parcours.
While I didn't define communication it can be as simple as honking the horn in the follow car. Primoz would know his pulse/watts and what more he could do if he wanted. And your observation on competition is spot on and his effort is for this race and what's to follow. That's why I think he gauged his effort on the rider in front of him and the one behind as much as his team could help him with the ongoing stats.
 
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