The Real Football Thread

[Brullnux]

Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

I agree. Would add Ramos but he seems to have calmed down now from when looked like getting sent off every time he stepped on the pitch. He's been calming down while Pique has been getting worse.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

I agree. Would add Ramos but he seems to have calmed down now from when looked like getting sent off every time he stepped on the pitch. He's been calming down while Pique has been getting worse.

Agree with that. I'd also include Pepe for all he has done but he seems to be better at controlling himself these days. The reason I say Suárez and Busquets are the worst possible kind is because of heir tired theatrics. I feel like I'm being made a fool of everytime I see one of them dive as if they had just been shotgunned. The Portuguese league has it too, probably more than any other, but these two take it to a whole nother level of drama. Not to mention Suárez should have been banned for life for his compulsive biting. One time's odd, the second leaves you stupefied, do it three times and you're out for good.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

''Unfortunate track record''. Euphemisms are all pretty until they cloud reality. He's outrageously rotten. Pepe and Ramos are dirty in an agressive and savage kind of way, they're nowhere near the ridiculous divers the likes of Busquets, Suárez, Dani Alves or even Mascherano are. You really just need to watch the Classicos. The drama comes mostly from one side. Puyol is the only respectable human being to come out of that school in ages.

I really struggle to find someone worse than Busquets. Again, you'll never hear me defend Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo... they're dirty too, but in a different way. I wouldn't bat an eye had Pepe been banned for life too, what he did to Casquero was atrocious, but Suárez's bitegate was more bizarre and WTF-worthy, made worse by the fact that he did it not once, not twice, but thrice already without being properly punished.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

''Unfortunate track record''. Euphemisms are all pretty until they cloud reality. He's outrageously rotten. Pepe and Ramos are dirty in an agressive and savage kind of way, they're nowhere near the ridiculous divers the likes of Busquets, Suárez, Dani Alves or even Mascherano are. You really just need to watch the Classicos. The drama comes mostly from one side. Puyol is the only respectable human being to come out of that school in ages.

I really struggle to find someone worse than Busquets. Again, you'll never hear me defend Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo... they're dirty too, but in a different way. I wouldn't bat an eye had Pepe been banned for life too, what he did to Casquero was atrocious, but Suárez's bitegate was more bizarre and WTF-worthy, made worse by the fact that he did it not once, not twice, but thrice already without being properly punished.

In what ways is play-acting any worse than all other dirty tricks used in a football game? And if it isn't, why single out one small part of those dark arts as something that condition our view of some players, clubs and countries?

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

''Unfortunate track record''. Euphemisms are all pretty until they cloud reality. He's outrageously rotten. Pepe and Ramos are dirty in an agressive and savage kind of way, they're nowhere near the ridiculous divers the likes of Busquets, Suárez, Dani Alves or even Mascherano are. You really just need to watch the Classicos. The drama comes mostly from one side. Puyol is the only respectable human being to come out of that school in ages.

I really struggle to find someone worse than Busquets. Again, you'll never hear me defend Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo... they're dirty too, but in a different way. I wouldn't bat an eye had Pepe been banned for life too, what he did to Casquero was atrocious, but Suárez's bitegate was more bizarre and WTF-worthy, made worse by the fact that he did it not once, not twice, but thrice already without being properly punished.

In what ways is play-acting any worse than all other dirty tricks used in a football game? And if it isn't, why single out one small part of those dark arts as something that condition our view of some players, clubs and countries?

Not 'play-acting' per se, but blatant, exaggerated theatrics. To the second sentence: I shouldn't let the fact that certain players are cheaters condition my opinion of them? Don't know what you mean about clubs and countries, though, I singled out none.

 

[Brullnux]

Suarez should've been banned for life after bite number 3. One is weird, two is really messed up but three is just horrible. And as an Italy fan what what he did slightly annoyed me at the time too...

Pepe and Ramos are terrible too, Pepe more so IMO. Busqeuts is the king of diving though, never liked him whatsoever.

Anyway, PSG vs City is turning out to be a comedy off errors, entertaining as it may be. Real could be victims of a major upset too. To think, a just over a week ago my Real-supporting friend was boasting about what an easy draw he had...

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

As a Liverpool fan, I respect Suarez's talents and any Liverpool fan would be crazy not to be thankful for his services while with the club, but he's had too many incidents. He's got some issues that he probably hasn't resolved. A handball at the world cup (believe it or not, this is the one that people will go easy on him for), three BITING(!!!) incidents, racially abusing a player, numerous dives (ok, that's been an epidemic problem in football), cheap fouls...He's a very talented player, very skilled, but he's got attitude issues. But yes, I do agree with you about Ramos and Pepe. Pepe is worse though.

 

[jsem94]

Points from this evening:
-Zlatan missing so much, hurts to see.
-Fernando... wtf?
-KDB bossing, showing he's one of the finest attacking mids/wingers in the world.
-David Luiz STILL shouldn't be a center back
-Verratti is a huge miss

-Marcelo's dive... wtf.
-Marcelo's positional sense, the amount of times they probed that side on the counter attack. Marcelo 0/10.
-Draxler. What a player.

 

[sniper]

Re:

...
-Draxler. What a player.

yes, and showing it quite consistently now on the highest platform, not just in insignificant league games.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Suárez is such a disgrace. And so's Busquets. Two most disgusting players in European football.

You evidently don't watch much football. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of far dirtier players running around in Europe's top leagues. As far as the top two in Spain go, Suarez certainly has his unfortunate track record, and was perhaps lucky to have still been on the pitch when he scored. But Ramos and Pepe are old masters at really being filthy. Pepe in particular was always the lowest scum - he dies every time he goes to ground, usually clutching his face, always trying to get his opponent sent off. In a filthy class of his own.

''Unfortunate track record''. Euphemisms are all pretty until they cloud reality. He's outrageously rotten. Pepe and Ramos are dirty in an agressive and savage kind of way, they're nowhere near the ridiculous divers the likes of Busquets, Suárez, Dani Alves or even Mascherano are. You really just need to watch the Classicos. The drama comes mostly from one side. Puyol is the only respectable human being to come out of that school in ages.

I really struggle to find someone worse than Busquets. Again, you'll never hear me defend Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo... they're dirty too, but in a different way. I wouldn't bat an eye had Pepe been banned for life too, what he did to Casquero was atrocious, but Suárez's bitegate was more bizarre and WTF-worthy, made worse by the fact that he did it not once, not twice, but thrice already without being properly punished.

In what ways is play-acting any worse than all other dirty tricks used in a football game? And if it isn't, why single out one small part of those dark arts as something that condition our view of some players, clubs and countries?

Not 'play-acting' per se, but blatant, exaggerated theatrics. To the second sentence: I shouldn't let the fact that certain players are cheaters condition my opinion of them? Don't know what you mean about clubs and countries, though, I singled out none.

Ever since the debate over diving and its influence to football started I have held the opinion that it is far less of a problem than made out to be by the press (spcecially the English-speaking part of it). Moreover the debate over diving started at the time when the actual big problem in the game was growing tendency of managers cynically scapegoating referees. That was the topic that needed discussing over and actions taken, instead we have got endless babbling and posturing over a complete pseudo-problem of diving, or more broadly, play-acting for the best part of last ten years.

To answer your question, play-acting, when grossly over exaggerated, is an embarrassing thing to see, and understandably can influence one's opinion on certain players or clubs. Still when compared to actual issues the game is having, it is too insignificant a thing to base such sweeping statements on like you did with Busquets. The part about clubs and countries was not directly connected with your post, it was more a hint towards a general and still widespread stereotypes about diving among football fans and pundits.

Suarez understandably stands apart due to his repeated biting incidents. Man has had serious problems with self control. But when talking about dirty players, I nominate Roy Keane. The man broke the leg of Alf Inge Haaland in a fully premeditated move. No amount of diving can match the disgraceful malice shown by him that day.

 

[Brullnux]

Did you see Marcelo yesterday? That and constantly arguing with the referee are the reasons I struggle to watch football anymore.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re:

Did you see Marcelo yesterday? That and constantly arguing with the referee are the reasons I struggle to watch football anymore.

Diving in football is like wheelsucking in cycling - most of time normal part of the sport, but can be absolutely infuriating on some extreme occasions. But no way can it be a reason to stop following the sport altogether.

The attitude of both, players and managers,towards the referees, is a real problem, which needs serious actions to be taken. Basically, things have gone so bad, that harrassing of the refs is already treated as normal part of the game. This is one of those serious and actually important issues, that has been completely overshadowed by the pointless debate over diving.

I'm no fan of diving and play-acting, but the over-the-top attention it gets, and specially the hypocritical posturing often accompaning the debate, is far more annoying to me, than the act of diving itself.

 

[Brullnux]

I also follie rugby a lot and while there are other problems there, the way the players redirect the referee is something football should take example from. Very little to no arguing back, and if you do you get sent back 10 metres, and embarrassed. I can't imagine how many times footballers swear at referees, and usually the manager gets sent off when they do it, but the player doesn't get anything. In the Premiership final, the captain of one of the teams said under his breath "*** useless", the referee heard it and sent him off. 10 week ban.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Did you see Marcelo yesterday? That and constantly arguing with the referee are the reasons I struggle to watch football anymore.

Diving in football is like wheelsucking in cycling - most of time normal part of the sport, but can be absolutely infuriating on some extreme occasions. But no way can it be a reason to stop following the sport altogether.

The attitude of both, players and managers,towards the referees, is a real problem, which needs serious actions to be taken. Basically, things have gone so bad, that harrassing of the refs is already treated as normal part of the game. This is one of those serious and actually important issues, that has been completely overshadowed by the pointless debate over diving.

I'm no fan of diving and play-acting, but the over-the-top attention it gets, and specially the hypocritical posturing often accompaning the debate, is far more annoying to me, than the act of diving itself.

No it is more like drafting cars, stick bottle

 

[kingjr]

Wheelsucking is parking the bus and scoring from a counter attack.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Did you see Marcelo yesterday? That and constantly arguing with the referee are the reasons I struggle to watch football anymore.

Diving in football is like wheelsucking in cycling - most of time normal part of the sport, but can be absolutely infuriating on some extreme occasions. But no way can it be a reason to stop following the sport altogether.

The attitude of both, players and managers,towards the referees, is a real problem, which needs serious actions to be taken. Basically, things have gone so bad, that harrassing of the refs is already treated as normal part of the game. This is one of those serious and actually important issues, that has been completely overshadowed by the pointless debate over diving.

I'm no fan of diving and play-acting, but the over-the-top attention it gets, and specially the hypocritical posturing often accompanying the debate, is far more annoying to me, than the act of diving itself.

I love the gatherings around refs for the player's little whinging sessions - the call has been made... no ref on the planet is going to go, "hey guys, you're right. Here's my new decision." Idiots the lot of them as it won't change a thing

however, the diving and tricking refs with it still actually works.
The ref gets one look at full speed and has to make his call right there on the spot. Seriously feel for the refs (okay, not Polly and his numeracy issues)
I'm sure we've all been watching a game and cried "penalty" when there wasn't one, or been ripped off by one that was awarded when it shouldn't have been. All depends on whether your team is on the receiving end as to whether it sucks or not. Italians will love Fabio Grosso, while Aussies will hate him for the dive over Lucas Neill in Germany

 

[jsem94]

Re:

Wheelsucking is parking the bus and scoring from a counter attack.

This. It's completely legal and an acceptable part of the sport, but it may be frustrating to the viewers and to the other team(s).

Diving isn't allowed, while wheelsucking is, so it's not a fair comparison at all.

 

[jsem94]

So disappointed in Zlatan tonight. And Blanc too. Setting up his side in a 3-5-2 without ever having played that system, and they just couldn't move the ball around, no intensity.

De Bruyne again scoring, making the difference. He and Silva looked great.

CR7 impresses again. Of course it's him that gets the hattrick when his team needs it. This wasn't just a useless hattrick against Vallecano or Malmö, this actually meant something. The best player so far this calendar year probably.

 

[sniper]

Re:

...
CR7 impresses again. Of course it's him that gets the hattrick when his team needs it. This wasn't just a useless hattrick against Vallecano or Malmö, this actually meant something. The best player so far this calendar year probably.

to be fair, it's not really "of course".
Ronaldo's reputation in the (not so distant) past was that he didn't reach his maximum level in the bigger/est games.
Admittedly, he has managed to shed that reputation, for which he deserves credit.

i didn't see the game though. Anybody know what happened to Draxler? Was he invisible?

 

[gooner]

I love Ibra as a player but this is another game at this stage in the competition where he has failed to perform.

This isn't to knock the quality he has but in terms of the publicity and hype he gets, he has to be judged to this standard.

This all comes from his mouth and the bravado image whereas other players are too quiet for their own good. I hear more about Ibra than Iniesta for instance, who has done in it multiple big games where he has been the decisive factor.

I see Ibra as an excellent player but not in the elite players of the game I have seen in my time watching the game.

 

[sniper]

I love Ibra as a player but this is another game at this stage in the competition where he has failed to perform.

This isn't to knock the quality he has but in terms of the publicity and hype he gets, he has to be judged to this standard.

This all comes from his mouth and the bravado image whereas other players are too quiet for their own good. I hear more about Ibra than Iniesta for instance, who has done in it multiple big games where he has been the decisive factor.

I see Ibra as an excellent player but not in the elite players of the game I have seen in my time watching the game.

in terms of geniality, technical skill, and improvisation, imo he's up there with the best. (and he really was considered a huge talent when Ajax bought him)
in terms of consistency and the overall impact he has on his team's performances, i agree he's not elite.

 

[del1962]

Doesn't Ibra have a remarkable record in terms of league titles with different clubs, that to me points to a player who performs regularly week in week out, but perhaps in the really big games he does not stand out, while some players perform better on the bigger stage

 

[jsem94]

Re: Re:

...
CR7 impresses again. Of course it's him that gets the hattrick when his team needs it. This wasn't just a useless hattrick against Vallecano or Malmö, this actually meant something. The best player so far this calendar year probably.

to be fair, it's not really "of course".
Ronaldo's reputation in the (not so distant) past was that he didn't reach his maximum level in the bigger/est games.
Admittedly, he has managed to shed that reputation, for which he deserves credit.

i didn't see the game though. Anybody know what happened to Draxler? Was he invisible?

By of course, I mean, it's obvious that when people start doubting him something triggers inside him and he feels a fire inside him causing him to perform like this. I have been one of those doubters, and he has shut me up over the past two months or so.

About Draxler: he got injured early on and subbed off.

This all comes from his mouth and the bravado image whereas other players are too quiet for their own good. I hear more about Ibra than Iniesta for instance, who has done in it multiple big games where he has been the decisive factor.

It isn't that he hasn't performed in big games. He has, and I could list many examples, but in the CL I guess he hasn't performed to his full potential. Iniesta is another beast though. They are incomparable. Iniesta is one of the all time greats, Zlatan isn't. I actually think it's debatable if he's even Sweden's greatest ever player. I'd personally put him at third (behind Liedholm and Nordahl). I think he will never go on to win the CL now, it's over.

 

[jsem94]

Woah! Aupa Atléti! They deserved this victory. Barcelona's defense is all over the place, Jordi Alba getting caught off position, Pique and Mascherano too. Godin intimidating Suarez, creating some hilarity. It was amazing to watch. I love Simeone. (As an Interista, PLX PLX come back to Inter as a coach this time at some point in the future).

Neuer in a poor run of form lately, making mistakes... but wow what a player Vidal is.