The Real Football Thread

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Kind of untrue. Spurs play an attractive brand of football with young players, more of whom are homegrown, cheap, and/or English than those of most (other?) superclubs. I'd be happy to see them win, and so would almost every serious football supporter I know. (Also, the prospect of irritating whingey Arsenal fans is a hilariously satisfying one. I'm not sure which is less likely at the moment, (some sections of) them arranging a 'protest' that isn't a pathetic and risibly puerile joke, or (some sections of) them arranging some smug St Totteringham's day celebration). Doesn't mean Leicester aren't everyone's second team, though, because they are.

See, the thing is that the vast majority of Hammers dislike Spuds more than the Ars-enal. After more than four decades of disliking them, and despite the fact that two ex-Ajax players now play for them, I just can't bring myself to ever pull for them.

The Lesta 'second team' thing has only happened this season. Traditionally, the Hammers were always many people's 'second team', because we always tried to play the game right, and never won fark-all apart from two FA cups (since I've been a Hammer). [/quote]

While I really shouldn't, given the team I support (and who I'm not naming, because I don't want limitless hatred), I actually really like West Ham - especially after they got rid of that fat **** and replaced him with a manager I really like.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

While I really shouldn't, given the team I support (and who I'm not naming, because I don't want limitless hatred), I actually really like West Ham - especially after they got rid of that fat **** and replaced him with a manager I really like.

Can only be Millwall, or what the rest of the league calls Chavscum.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

While I really shouldn't, given the team I support (and who I'm not naming, because I don't want limitless hatred), I actually really like West Ham - especially after they got rid of that fat **** and replaced him with a manager I really like.

Can only be Millwall, or what the rest of the league calls Chavscum.

Accusing me of supporting Millwall, a hooligan firm which pretends to be a football team, is quite possibly the worst insult I can imagine.

 

[Singer01]

they only went and f'ing did it.

 

[Brullnux]

Yes. Yes. Yes. YYYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

Accusing me of supporting Millwall, a hooligan firm which pretends to be a football team, is quite possibly the worst insult I can imagine.

I apologize for the insult and withdraw it unreservedly.

I share the all-round delight of all uncommitted fans at Lesta's fantastic achievement, as does CNN Int., which has been milking this story for all its long mileage. Above all, Spurs were a disgrace tonight. We expect shameless violence and over-acting from Chel$ki, but blow me if Spurs weren't far worse tonight. Clattenburg deserves to be dropped from the Prem list for his disgraceful dereliction of duty, which should have seen at least two, if not even three or four Spurs players sent off. At least the two worst offenses, both of which he missed - Dembele's eye poke and Lamela's deliberate standing on Fabregas's hand - are on tape so that the FA can still deal with them. Seriously, Spurs finishing with 11 men was an absolute travesty.

 

[Brullnux]

Tbh I expected nothing different from Spurs, they tend to lose their mind a bit when they're in trouble. In the game they drew (against WBA yeah? How have I forgotten) and needed to win during stoppage time they began time wasting. Like actually spending 30 seconds at throw ins when they needed to score to keep their title hopes alive. So glad Leicester won. Zero Titoli finally has his big trophy - and it's one that will be remembered more than any of Jose's.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

Tbh I expected nothing different from Spurs, they tend to lose their mind a bit when they're in trouble. In the game they drew (against WBA yeah? How have I forgotten) and needed to win during stoppage time they began time wasting. Like actually spending 30 seconds at throw ins when they needed to score to keep their title hopes alive. So glad Leicester won. Zero Titoli finally has his big trophy - and it's one that will be remembered more than any of Jose's.

chuffed for Ranieri, and rather poetic that it was chelski who gave it to him in the end - really didn't like the way they shafted him.

can't comment on the Spurs game as I didn't see it, but sounds like the age factor came into it in not keeping their heads. Wouldn't surprise me if they completely drop their bundle and end up 3rd

As to amster... upton park is the only ground I've been nervous at - not that I've been to milwall, mind. Had to hide in a near by curry house as the locals were in full nutter mode by the tube station that night. Good curry though, kept our heads down and headed for the tube after it was fairly clear. Still saw some action on the platform though. Very disappointing as I'd never really minded the spammers. Worked with one and had a good friendship with him

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Tbh I expected nothing different from Spurs, they tend to lose their mind a bit when they're in trouble. In the game they drew (against WBA yeah? How have I forgotten) and needed to win during stoppage time they began time wasting. Like actually spending 30 seconds at throw ins when they needed to score to keep their title hopes alive. So glad Leicester won. Zero Titoli finally has his big trophy - and it's one that will be remembered more than any of Jose's.

chuffed for Ranieri, and rather poetic that it was chelski who gave it to him in the end - really didn't like the way they shafted him.

can't comment on the Spurs game as I didn't see it, but sounds like the age factor came into it in not keeping their heads. Wouldn't surprise me if they completely drop their bundle and end up 3rd

As to amster... upton park is the only ground I've been nervous at - not that I've been to milwall, mind. Had to hide in a near by curry house as the locals were in full nutter mode by the tube station that night. Good curry though, kept our heads down and headed for the tube after it was fairly clear. Still saw some action on the platform though. Very disappointing as I'd never really minded the spammers. Worked with one and had a good friendship with him

I guess Spurs could finish 3rd, but Arsenal and City are hardly reputed for their mental resilience. Spurs and Arsenal will surely both win their final games (Newcastle and Villa, respectively): even if Arsenal beat City and Southampton beat Spurs, Spurs will still take second - unless of course Arsenal overturns -14 goal difference. This has been a terrible season for Arsenal, all things considered, however, and not just because of their inability to challenge for a league they should have won. Much as I appreciate Leicester and Spurs, it's hard to see them going too far in next year's European Cup. While the success of City this season has alleviated this concern to some extent, Italy are still coming up very strongly behind England in terms of UEFA coefficient. Another disappointing season in Europe next year for England and a better one for Juve could see Serie A overtake the Premier League. What finishing place in the EPL would that eliminate from qualification? Why, fourth!

 

[jsem94]

Aupa Atleti! Pep leaving Bayern with three straight UCL semi losses, shows his consistency in a way, but if I were a fan I'd rather have us winning the title once and dropping out of the group stage twice. That one win would compensate for the other early exits.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

Fantastic performance?!? Atletico played an anti football type game. Bayern bossed the match from the start. Obviously that missed penalty was the deciding factor, but they deserved to move on more than Atletico did.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

Fantastic performance?!? Atletico played an anti football type game. Bayern bossed the match from the start. Obviously that missed penalty was the deciding factor, but they deserved to move on more than Atletico did.

It's wrong to call Atleti anti-football. It's actually the closest thing to total-football you'll see on a pitch these days.

 

[jsem94]

If by total-football you mean the Ajax team of the late 60s-early 70s and the corresponding Dutch national team, then Atleti are almost its opposite. But I love both. Atleti are very much shape oriented and knowing the role they have. You don't see Griezmann or Koke wander all over the pitch like Neeskens and Cruyff did. Occasionally a centerback might move forward on the ball, to bring an extra man into midfield, but it's rare. The interchanging of positions might then happen between a center back and a central midfielder. Or one of their wide midfielders might find themselves interchanging with a central midfielder in their system. But it's nothing systemic, they don't seek out to wander all over the pitch freely.

And it's not anti-football. It's very much football. Maybe just not beautiful football. But I find beauty in the ugly and gritty personally. Simeone is like mafia boss on the sidelines, slapping his own staff and bending the rules to his own will. It's pure entertainment, as much for the antics as for the football.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Tbh I expected nothing different from Spurs, they tend to lose their mind a bit when they're in trouble. In the game they drew (against WBA yeah? How have I forgotten) and needed to win during stoppage time they began time wasting. Like actually spending 30 seconds at throw ins when they needed to score to keep their title hopes alive. So glad Leicester won. Zero Titoli finally has his big trophy - and it's one that will be remembered more than any of Jose's.

chuffed for Ranieri, and rather poetic that it was chelski who gave it to him in the end - really didn't like the way they shafted him.

can't comment on the Spurs game as I didn't see it, but sounds like the age factor came into it in not keeping their heads. Wouldn't surprise me if they completely drop their bundle and end up 3rd

As to amster... upton park is the only ground I've been nervous at - not that I've been to milwall, mind. Had to hide in a near by curry house as the locals were in full nutter mode by the tube station that night. Good curry though, kept our heads down and headed for the tube after it was fairly clear. Still saw some action on the platform though. Very disappointing as I'd never really minded the spammers. Worked with one and had a good friendship with him

I guess Spurs could finish 3rd, but Arsenal and City are hardly reputed for their mental resilience. Spurs and Arsenal will surely both win their final games (Newcastle and Villa, respectively): even if Arsenal beat City and Southampton beat Spurs, Spurs will still take second - unless of course Arsenal overturns -14 goal difference. This has been a terrible season for Arsenal, all things considered, however, and not just because of their inability to challenge for a league they should have won. Much as I appreciate Leicester and Spurs, it's hard to see them going too far in next year's European Cup. While the success of City this season has alleviated this concern to some extent, Italy are still coming up very strongly behind England in terms of UEFA coefficient. Another disappointing season in Europe next year for England and a better one for Juve could see Serie A overtake the Premier League. What finishing place in the EPL would that eliminate from qualification? Why, fourth!

I wouldn't put it past Spurs to drop both their remaining games, especially with the repercutions of reviews of the chelski match and some more players missing. Add in that the barcodes will likely be up for a relegation scrap and a depleted spurs not really fighting for anything now... who knows what will happen.
Arsenil have been same-same this year really - consistently finishing 3rd/4th for the past 10years with about the same points they'll finish with this year.
I'd also wager that both Spurs and Leicester will be competitive in Europe - seen one article on the beeb saying the foxes will even do well (might have been Murphy on that one, but don't quote me). Spurs have better depth and european experience so should fare better. Their last CL outing went fairly well - or should I say Bale's outing fared well
Next year's european season for the premier league should be okay - I'd expect citeh under Pep to be right up there, l'arse n spurs into the knockouts, and leicester to do a decent job in the groups

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

Idiots? If you say so.

I for one can't ignore the fact that pep was given a blank check to buy whoever he wants. He's got pretty much the best player in the bundesliga at every position. It's like playing a game of chess but one of the sides has 8 queens replacing the 8 pawns.

Even against atletico he went into it with a massive resources advantage. Is there anyone on the Bayern starting 11 who wouldn't waltz into the attletico one? Even some of their bench would.

To lose a game like that is a failure in my opinion.

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

And on the rare occasions that pep played against someone his own size in the champions league, his team got humiliated.

 

[Billie]

Re:

If by total-football you mean the Ajax team of the late 60s-early 70s and the corresponding Dutch national team, then Atleti are almost its opposite. But I love both. Atleti are very much shape oriented and knowing the role they have. You don't see Griezmann or Koke wander all over the pitch like Neeskens and Cruyff did. Occasionally a centerback might move forward on the ball, to bring an extra man into midfield, but it's rare. The interchanging of positions might then happen between a center back and a central midfielder. Or one of their wide midfielders might find themselves interchanging with a central midfielder in their system. But it's nothing systemic, they don't seek out to wander all over the pitch freely.

If you read how Rinus Michels described total football Atletico are the team closest to playing that kind of football. All 11 players are completely in unison as they both defend and attack collectively as one unit. They have a lot of interchangebility aswell mainly defensively.

Bayern are close aswel but Pep plays more to how Cruyff describes total football.

 

[jsem94]

I stand corrected then.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

If by total-football you mean the Ajax team of the late 60s-early 70s and the corresponding Dutch national team, then Atleti are almost its opposite. But I love both. Atleti are very much shape oriented and knowing the role they have. You don't see Griezmann or Koke wander all over the pitch like Neeskens and Cruyff did. Occasionally a centerback might move forward on the ball, to bring an extra man into midfield, but it's rare. The interchanging of positions might then happen between a center back and a central midfielder. Or one of their wide midfielders might find themselves interchanging with a central midfielder in their system. But it's nothing systemic, they don't seek out to wander all over the pitch freely.

If you read how Rinus Michels described total football Atletico are the team closest to playing that kind of football. All 11 players are completely in unison as they both defend and attack collectively as one unit. They have a lot of interchangebility aswell mainly defensively.

Bayern are close aswel but Pep plays more to how Cruyff describes total football.

Thankfully Pep is out. Three straight years losing in semifinal stage of the Champions League is tiresome. It's not a disaster, but they've progressively gotten worse in Europe over the last couple years, and I don't mean by results (winners in 2013, SF in 14, 15, 16) but the way they play. They aren't finishing like we are used to seeing Bayern finish. Atletico have solid players that know their positions and what they are capable of. Muller missing the penalty which would have given them 2-0 was huge, obviously. You'd think he would be automatic at the penalty spot and he is usually cool as a cucumber. Look at the stats too. Bayern dominated in every facet of the game. This reminds me of the run Chelsea had a few years ago.

 

[jsem94]

Boring again. I think Real will win but I hope Atleti will.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

Idiots? If you say so.

I for one can't ignore the fact that pep was given a blank check to buy whoever he wants. He's got pretty much the best player in the bundesliga at every position. It's like playing a game of chess but one of the sides has 8 queens replacing the 8 pawns.

Even against atletico he went into it with a massive resources advantage. Is there anyone on the Bayern starting 11 who wouldn't waltz into the attletico one? Even some of their bench would.

To lose a game like that is a failure in my opinion.

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

And on the rare occasions that pep played against someone his own size in the champions league, his team got humiliated.

champion team vs team of champions again...
just seen leicester do the same. No reason that can't happen in CL...
or LaLiga - been great having the usual big 2 turn into 3

 

[jsem94]

Dilly ding dilly dong! Some unbelievable scenes last night. I'm still in shock.

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

Quite some game tonight in München. Fantastic performance by both sides. In the end Bayern only have themselves to blame - score that penalty and you have decisive tactical advantage. Müller missed and Bayern payed the price. Atletico should be the favourite for the final regardless of the opponent, unless their aggression boils over, which could become an issue if their opponent is Real.

Downside of todays result is that some idiots still can think Guardiola failed at Bayern. Knock-out football have always been the achilles heel of Pep's teams at both Barcelona and Bayern. For some reason his teams have lacked the necessary intensity in away legs. Given their style of play, when intensity is not there, his teams become predictable and vulnerable. As a result he won less CL trophies in Barca than their general level would have suggested, and none at all at Bayern.

What Guardiola achieved was the consolidation of Bayern as the elite of the elite in Europe. That was in no way certain even after their treble season under Heynckes. The Bayern side knocked out today is in many ways better and more versatile than that treble winning one from three years ago. The failure to win CL in no way means he failed as a Bayern coach in general. Now its interesting to see where Bayern go from here under Ancelotti.

The fact that it was Atletico who knocked Bayern out is also a kind of poetic justice, given the arrogant and idiotic remarks from Rummenigge earlier this year.

Idiots? If you say so.

I for one can't ignore the fact that pep was given a blank check to buy whoever he wants. He's got pretty much the best player in the bundesliga at every position. It's like playing a game of chess but one of the sides has 8 queens replacing the 8 pawns.

Even against atletico he went into it with a massive resources advantage. Is there anyone on the Bayern starting 11 who wouldn't waltz into the attletico one? Even some of their bench would.

To lose a game like that is a failure in my opinion.

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

And on the rare occasions that pep played against someone his own size in the champions league, his team got humiliated.

champion team vs team of champions again...
just seen leicester do the same. No reason that can't happen in CL...
or LaLiga - been great having the usual big 2 turn into 3

Leicester are the exception and won't be of the norm. The same as what Montpellier achieved in 2012. Before this season no team below the 4th highest wage spend has won the Premiership.

The lads at Soccernomics and their studies over time have shown league finishes correlate with wage spend.

 

[gooner]

You look at that City v Arsenal game and it isn't hard to see why Premiership sides struggle in the Champions League.

Two average sides.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Leicester are the exception and won't be of the norm. The same as what Montpellier achieved in 2012. Before this season no team below the 4th highest wage spend has won the Premiership.

The lads at Soccernomics and their studies over time have shown league finishes correlate with wage spend.

entire season is a bit out of whack then... although I'd wager that 'normal business' will resume next season

2015/16 wage spend (league pos*):
1 Chelsea - 215m (9th)
2 ManU - 203m (5th)
3 Citeh - 193m (4th)
4 Arsenal - 192m (3rd)
5 Liverpool - 152m (8th)
6 Tottenham - 110m (2nd)
7 Newcastle - 75m (18th)
8 Everton - 74m (12th)
9 Stoke - 72m (10th)
10 Sunderland - 71m (17th)
11 WHam -69m (7th)
12 Villa - 65m (20th)
...
14 Southampton - 59m (6th)
...
17 Leicester - 48m (1st)

* as at today (9/5) prior to spammer/manc game