The Real Football Thread

[Red Rick]

Weird how England were better most of the match but still barely created much from open play.

This WC Mbappe has a least delivered, during the last WC he was outperformed by his teammates Varane, Kante and mabye even Griezman, while Giroud wasn't far behind him, and still got all the media hype.

He got pocketed hard today though.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Weird how England were better most of the match but still barely created much from open play.


He got pocketed hard today though.

Oh yeah, Griezman was way more important today, the really managed to shut down him and Theo Hernandez on the left and Dembele was almost invisible on the right for the game. At least Giroud was there to score when the chance came.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh yeah, Griezman was way more important today, the really managed to shut down him and Theo Hernandez on the left and Dembele was almost invisible on the right for the game. At least Giroud was there to score when the chance came.

Yeah that's why France are the massive favorites now. They don't have one star player to drag them through it. If one fails, another steps up.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah that's why France are the massive favorites now. They don't have one star player to drag them through it. If one fails, another steps up.

My impression is that Griezmann is actually the most important player. He often drops back and acts like a playmaker, he's the link between the central middlefield, wingers and strikers.
I guess their central middlefield might be their biggest weakness, without Kante and Pogba (who is actually decent when he has the former as a babysitter).
Of the teams left only Croatia probably has the middlefield players to try to dominate the mid field and beat them that way. Yes they lack a to forward, but I have more faith in them that I have in Argentina...

 

[Red Rick]

My impression is that Griezmann is actually the most important player. He often drops back and acts like a playmaker, he's the link between the central middlefield, wingers and strikers.
I guess their central middlefield might be their biggest weakness, without Kante and Pogba (who is actually decent when he has the former as a babysitter).
Of the teams left only Croatia probably has the middlefield players to try to dominate the mid field and beat them that way. Yes they lack a to forward, but I have more faith in them that I have in Argentina...

Yeah Griezmann was monstrous today. And yes that also includes the hair dye job.

I think other teams will have more trouble containing Mbappe, but then Morocoo will probably just give him 0 space to run into by playing a back 9

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah Griezmann was monstrous today. And yes that also includes the hair dye job.

I think other teams will have more trouble containing Mbappe, but then Morocoo will probably just give him 0 space to run into by playing a back 9

Yeah and against him defending further back is probably a lot smarter than having your defenders up high near the middle of the field, because the guy can outrun everyone.
I mean he can dribble a bit, but his main weapon is his speed, so there is a bit of a question about his longevity as a top player.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah and against him defending further back is probably a lot smarter than having your defenders up high near the middle of the field, because the guy can outrun everyone.
I mean he can dribble a bit, but his main weapon is his speed, so there is a bit of a question about his longevity as a top player.

Speed doesn't decline that quickly anymore for top athletes these days.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Speed doesn't decline that quickly anymore for top athletes these days.

Yeah, but that discussion probably belongs in a different subforum...

 

[Red Rick]

These are words that I have never spoken before

Spoiler

Go France

 

[BullsFan22]

Croatia didn’t play well. Sure they had 62% possession but they couldn’t muster a second shot on goal until late in the game, and it was obviously way too late. Messi has been coddled too much this tournament. FIFA clearly wants to see him go all the way.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Croatia has been really poor in attack the entire tournament, when up against good opponents. Two goalless draws in group stage, two penalty shootout wins in knock-out rounds after 1:1 draws. Yesterday, the most surprising was how they collapsed after the first goal - it was the last thing to expect from a side of such experience.

 

[Red Rick]

The penalties Argentina keep getting are insane. This one and the Poland one are some of the most ridiculous ones that I've never seen given before.

Just run into the keeper and get a penalty. In general the "just run into a player and get free kick" thing needs to die in football

 

[tobydawq]

I was very disappointed with yesterday's match. I have a very strong dislike for Messi and I can't stand how people are praising that he finally shows that he is a ***. There's nothing nice about that.

I'm with Red Rick. Go France!

 

[BigCoward]

I was very disappointed with yesterday's match. I have a very strong dislike for Messi and I can't stand how people are praising that he finally shows that he is a ***. There's nothing nice about that.

I'm with Red Rick. Go France!

He's the lesser of two evils in the current discussion.

 

[Berflamand]

I was very disappointed with yesterday's match. I have a very strong dislike for Messi and I can't stand how people are praising that he finally shows that he is a ***. There's nothing nice about that.

I'm with Red Rick. Go France!

Why do you (and others here apparently) have a very strong dislike for Messi?

I agree that his behaviour during and after the game vs the Netherlands was nothing to be proud of or to praise but apart from that his career has been truly extraordinary. He is footballing magic and has been doing impossible stuff consistently for over 15 years. He's 35 and still producing magical moments like his assist for the third goal yesterday.

I just don't understand how anybody can be strongly opposed to him when you love the football game.

 

[Red Rick]

Why do you (and others here apparently) have a very strong dislike for Messi?

I agree that his behaviour during and after the game vs the Netherlands was nothing to be proud of or to praise but apart from that his career has been truly extraordinary. He is footballing magic and has been doing impossible stuff consistently for over 15 years. He's 35 and still producing magical moments like his assist for the third goal yesterday.

I just don't understand how anybody can be strongly opposed to him when you love the football game.

There's more to football than just Messi. He's basically snow white at this point, instead of 7 dwarves he has 10 dirty douchebags with him on the pitch.

 

[Põhja Konn]

The penalties Argentina keep getting are insane. This one and the Poland one are some of the most ridiculous ones that I've never seen given before.

Just run into the keeper and get a penalty. In general the "just run into a player and get free kick" thing needs to die in football

Classic case of people seeing what they want to see fuelled by pre-existing biases. The underlined situation very rarely happen as black and white as you put it and as long as we accept dirty tricks in defensive side as normal part of the game, it is completely hypocritical to cry about the tiniest bits of gamesmanship in attack as scourge that the game needs to get rid of.

 

[Red Rick]

Classic case of people seeing what they want to see fuelled by pre-existing biases. The underlined situation very rarely happen as black and white as you put it and as long as we accept dirty tricks in defensive side as normal part of the game, it is completely hypocritical to cry about the tiniest bits of gamesmanship in attack as scourge that the game needs to get rid of.

If by tiniest bit of gamesmanship you mean "manipulating the referee should not be a main objective in football" okay.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Classic case of people seeing what they want to see fuelled by pre-existing biases. The underlined situation very rarely happen as black and white as you put it and as long as we accept dirty tricks in defensive side as normal part of the game, it is completely hypocritical to cry about the tiniest bits of gamesmanship in attack as scourge that the game needs to get rid of.

I mean, there's a difference between dirty tricks and just making it a bit more physical. At the same time we should also not encourage dirty tricks by attackers.
Like a bit of shoulder to shoulder conract when trying to get the ball is different that a bodycheck while running at someone at full speed. Shoulder to shoulder contact while both guys are in the air trying to catch a ball is fine, one guy still being on the floor and pushing the other one who is already in the Air away is clearly a foul because the other guy can't do anything about it (I remember Hummels doing that to Varane at a WC before scoring a goal years ago and nobody said anything).

Things get really dirty in the minor leagues where cameras aren't around all the time. The amount of dirty tricks and clear cut fouls that people get away with in those is remarkable.

 

[Põhja Konn]

If by tiniest bit of gamesmanship you mean "manipulating the referee should not be a main objective in football" okay.

It has never been the main objective, but has been an inevitable part of the game ever since the concept of a foul was created. My point is that this manipulation comes from all sides, but people only cry about it when attacking player does it. The whole idea of eradicating diving and soft fouls is just so riddled with hypocrisy and contradictions, that it is impossible to accomplish. In the Premier League they have gone the farthest with this and the result is a complete chaos with refereeing where nobody understands anymore what is actually allowed and what not.

To bring a cycling analogy, the way the diving issue is widely approached to is akin to every sticky bottle being seen as egregiously over the top as the one that got Nibali ejected from 2015 Vuelta. Not the smartest way in my book.

 

[Berflamand]

There's more to football than just Messi. He's basically snow white at this point, instead of 7 dwarves he has 10 dirty douchebags with him on the pitch.

Of course there's more to football than just Messi but you can't deny he's been a very big part of it for the past 15 years. But ok, if you're dismissing him now as being snow white, there's no point in arguing this any further.

 

[Red Rick]

It has never been the main objective, but has been an inevitable part of the game ever since the concept of a foul was created. My point is that this manipulation comes from all sides, but people only cry about it when attacking player does it. The whole idea of eradicating diving and soft fouls is just so riddled with hypocrisy and contradictions, that it is impossible to accomplish. In the Premier League they have gone the farthest with this and the result is a complete chaos with refereeing where nobody understands anymore what is actually allowed and what not.

To bring a cycling analogy, the way the diving issue is widely approached to is akin to every sticky bottle being seen as egregiously over the top as the one that got Nibali ejected from 2015 Vuelta. Not the smartest way in my book.

Manipulation comes from all sides, but the grey areas are just so convenient to *** games up systematically under the excuse of "VAR didn't intervene cause it wasn't clear and obvious" or "ref is just incompetent yo"

Not to mention there's so many clear cases where rules straight up aren't followed, starting with the fact that clear red cards are rarely ever given in the first half of a game

 

[Red Rick]

Of course there's more to football than just Messi but you can't deny he's been a very big part of it for the past 15 years. But ok, if you're dismissing him now as being snow white, there's no point in arguing this any further.

It's just an analogy bruv.

This is the World Cup. There's like a hundred stories, it's a team sport, biggest sports event in the world, and most of what I'm seeing get pushed is the coronation of Messi as GOAT because they beat Croatia.

 

[Berflamand]

It's just an analogy bruv.

This is the World Cup. There's like a hundred stories, it's a team sport, biggest sports event in the world, and most of what I'm seeing get pushed is the coronation of Messi as GOAT because they beat Croatia.

I was just asking why some people here have such a strong dislike for Messi but if I understand you correctly it's not so much Messi himself but more the over the top media attention for the GOAT story (which I can understand)?

The GOAT story is pointless anyway as he's been the GOAT ever since at least 2012.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I'm delighted for Argentina especially Alvarez and the Dutch got what they deserved. Mind games before, Van *** and co being as physical as they could and then that *** Dumfries trying to put the Argentinians off their penalties and rightly getting a red card. I don't thin I've ever seen that before in a shootout.. And Croatia's racist fans are win the way home I'm enjoying this World Cup.