Dutch team won't be much better, hopefully we get pumped and give that hack coach of ours the flick.
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Dalglish sacked.
Andy Carroll for England
As far as the Dutch team goes, Anita could well play left back instead of Pieters, about whom there are question marks. Agree that he will play De Jong and Lothar, though to do that and to put out the potentially strongest team, he will have to abandon Holland's cherished 4-3-3.
Or, he will decide not to even try and play van Persie and Huntelaar together. Of course, I'd like to see Holland do well, but at the same time I've had more than enough of how Bert has them play, despite the 'success' of coming second at the WC, and would be happy to see the back of him.
Andy Carroll for England
As far as the Dutch team goes, Anita could well play left back instead of Pieters, about whom there are question marks. Agree that he will play De Jong and Lothar, though to do that and to put out the potentially strongest team, he will have to abandon Holland's cherished 4-3-3.
Or, he will decide not to even try and play van Persie and Huntelaar together. Of course, I'd like to see Holland do well, but at the same time I've had more than enough of how Bert has them play, despite the 'success' of coming second at the WC, and would be happy to see the back of him.
Pieters won't play at the Euros, he's injured. Willems (PSV) can play there, but is very inexperencied. Anita has played his best matches for Ajax in midfield, at left back he was pretty poor imo. Last option is Schaars, who plays for Sporting, also in midfield. Or Bouma, but he's central defender and too old now (better: too bad).
The back line indeed is the weakest point. Van Bommel will play in midfield, probably with Nigel de Jong to compensate for the back four. Then it's interesting. For the other four positions there are Huntelaar, Van Persie, Robben, Afellay, Van der Vaart, Sneijder and Kuyt. Normally Kuyt won't play but the coach seems to like him. Also everybody in Holland is begging to let both Huntelaar (topscorer Bundesliga) ánd Van Persie (topscorer Premier League) play. But most people fear he'll choose betwoon the two and then it's more likely Van Persie will start. I think Van Persie, Robben and Sneijder will always be in the line up. Two years ago the attack was that three + Kuyt.
Van Marwijk does like Afellay, too, but he's just back from an injury. The coach has said several times he considers Afellay as one of the key players. So it's interesting to see which choises he'll make in the preparation and finally in the group stage.
The back line indeed is the weakest point. Van Bommel will play in midfield, probably with Nigel de Jong to compensate for the back four. Then it's interesting. For the other four positions there are Huntelaar, Van Persie, Robben, Afellay, Van der Vaart, Sneijder and Kuyt. Normally Kuyt won't play but the coach seems to like him. Also everybody in Holland is begging to let both Huntelaar (topscorer Bundesliga) ánd Van Persie (topscorer Premier League) play. But most people fear he'll choose betwoon the two and then it's more likely Van Persie will start. I think Van Persie, Robben and Sneijder will always be in the line up. Two years ago the attack was that three + Kuyt.
Van Marwijk does like Afellay, too, but he's just back from an injury. The coach has said several times he considers Afellay as one of the key players. So it's interesting to see which choises he'll make in the preparation and finally in the group stage.
Gooner - a guy on my Dutch board who claims to be a personal friend of Van Persie's has posted that Robin has reached agreement with the **** on a new four year deal.
fwiw
fwiw
gooner said:
If I'd been on about City the word wouldn't have got asterisked out!
The word I wrote was A r s e .
gooner said:Nice one for that. I was wondering. I was`nt sure. That word filter wrecks my head at times.
Delighted if that is true and we can get on with our summer. Please hopefully Wenger finally wakes up now and spends big money on the right signings and get back challenging for trophies and shut up Nasri once and for all after his cheap shots yesterday at Arsenal.
Na$ri is scum, him leaving arsenal pleased me.
CRISTIANO SAYS, "YOU CAN'T COMPARE A FERRARI AND A PORSCHE"
"I'm better than Messi and Real Madrid is better than Barça"
http://www.marca.com/2012/05/18/en/football/real_madrid/1337357909.html
"I'm better than Messi and Real Madrid is better than Barça"
http://www.marca.com/2012/05/18/en/football/real_madrid/1337357909.html
The Scottish Cup Final tomorrow. Hearts V Hibs. The first time since 1896 (yes 1896!) both Edinburgh teams have been in the final. I know most will mock Scottish football but this game is massive for us Edinburghers The bragging rights for life ride on this one C'mon the Jam Tarts
The bragging rights for life ride on this one C'mon the Jam Tarts
Question to people who follow Premier League, Serie A, La Liga etc. ...
Did they have many incidents of pyrotechnics and vandalism in the stadiums recently? I feel like in the Bundesliga it has gotten really out of hand. Quite a few times this season games had to be interrupted because huge clouds of smoke were coming from the ranks where some "fans" had set of pyrotechnics.
Then there is all kinds of fan violence. They attack buses from fans of other clubs, one player of Bayer Leverkusen got his nose broken when visiting a disco in Cologne. Angry fans storm the field. Happy fans storm the field before the game is even over. Players hit the referee and call him names that I cannot repeat on a family forum.
I have no idea where this is coming from all of a sudden when for a long time the Bundesliga fans have been quite peaceful in my opinion. Is it just a German phenomenon or is do you also see an increase in fan violence and vandalism in other european top leagues?
Did they have many incidents of pyrotechnics and vandalism in the stadiums recently? I feel like in the Bundesliga it has gotten really out of hand. Quite a few times this season games had to be interrupted because huge clouds of smoke were coming from the ranks where some "fans" had set of pyrotechnics.
Then there is all kinds of fan violence. They attack buses from fans of other clubs, one player of Bayer Leverkusen got his nose broken when visiting a disco in Cologne. Angry fans storm the field. Happy fans storm the field before the game is even over. Players hit the referee and call him names that I cannot repeat on a family forum.
I have no idea where this is coming from all of a sudden when for a long time the Bundesliga fans have been quite peaceful in my opinion. Is it just a German phenomenon or is do you also see an increase in fan violence and vandalism in other european top leagues?
DominicDecoco said:
Will be tomorrow when the JT's take the Cup home
But alas in general no Scottish football is in a very bad state
ferryman said:Will be tomorrow when the JT's take the Cup home
What is rangers situation with money? I believe they were having some problems.
Zam_Olyas said:
Rangers are in Administration with huge debts threatening their existence. They have just been bought by a group fronted by Charles Green (ex Sheff Utd chairman) but it remains to be seen if they will survive or emerge as a NewCo.
ferryman said:I know most will mock Scottish football but this game is massive for us Edinburghers
This might be a bit off-topic, but I absolutely love Scottish football for sentimental reasons.
I remember sitting in school (Whishing it was over) eager to hurry home and fire up the MS-DOS prompt, and start my Rangers save in Champions Manager-2. The match-engine was so simple back then, but just the mere fact you were in charge of making Richard Gough captain and had to remember to put A. Mikhailichenko on the left-wing and where in control of shopping the transfer-market where a wondrous thing for me back then!
I remember that for some reason I always bought Anders Limpar to strengthen the midfield in that edition. Just as Tomáš Skuhravý ALWAYS where brought in from Genoa. Skuhravý and Mark Hateley where pure dynamite together up-front.
Amazing that so many years after I still play the series from time to time. Although now a days I am way more obsessed with trying to emulating tiki taka and get 100 passes out of Xavi every game without exception.
Good luck on the derby. I will absolutely cross my fingers for Hearts then!
Christian said:
England has never had much history with pyrotechnics. I've seen a few flares, but mainly the people around the guy just tell him to stop being a fool. Hitting the referee rarely happens - players can be idiots, but they're not that thick (usually). The only times I've ever seen a player actually use force of a ref is after being sent off, when it doesn't change anything (on the day). Foul language against refs by players is appalling and everywhere. Any given game with Wayne Rooney, and you'll be able to lipread "F*** off" from him a few times.
Of course in England, we've had problems with fan violence, but it's a lot better now. Most of the violence you see is at derby games - Millwall v West Ham is a notorious one, Cardiff - Swansea. My girlfriend's seen heavy police presence and a few scuffles at the Steel City (Sheffield) and Tyne-Wear (Newcastle - Sunderland) derbies.
You don't get the same kind of "firms" (fans who travel to away games mostly for the purpose of having fights with similar groups outside the ground and in the town) as you used to. Those who look for trouble can find it, but those who want to avoid it can also do so. One of the ways we deal with potential dangerous clashes is by putting them as a 12:30 kick-off. That way, there's far less time for the fans to get boozed up before the game.
Footballers and nightclubs are a potent mix. There's a gossip story every few weeks or so about some 21-year-old getting in a bit of trouble because some geezer thinks he's gonna look big in front of his mates if he punches a millionaire. Of course, young millionaires have more than a few hangers on, so things get out of hand pretty quickly. Most footballers will just go to the expensive clubs in the VIP rooms to avoid hassle - if they're famous enough to be recognised, they're rich enough to avoid it.
With regards to pitch invasions, they are traditional at the end of the season, especially at home, after a particularly significant win. Avoiding relegation, winning the league, gaining promotion and getting into Europe unexpectedly are examples of reasons why you get fans storming the pitch. Rarely ever any trouble though, fans and players all just happy to win.
The bad behaviour comes and goes in cycles. Fan rowdiness breeds fan rowdiness. In one group of supporters, everyone wants to be the big man, so it's a game of one-up-manship within the fans. Then you have the fact that each set of supporters wants to be the best group of fans, so you have one-up-manship between the different clubs fans. Then after it gets a bit too bad, clubs start doing family initiatives, reducing the numbers of cheap seats, breaking up groups of fans that have sat together for years. As the club gentrifies like this, it starts to feel like it's losing its identity after a while. So, they find ways of essentially reversing the policies they put in place to begin with, and the cycle begins anew.
Like someone said in Serie A it's much worse.Christian said:
But from a Holland view: for us Germany is kind of example of how it should be. Here in Holland the fans must be separated or they'll get into fights. The view is in Germany all fans can walk next to eatch other without anything happening (can be wrong). Here it's not allowed to have away support with Ajax-Feyenoord and Feyenoord-Ajax in fear of riots. And in some 'dangerous' matches (classified as high-risk matches) you must have a clubcard so you can be identified. And for away supporters there's a so called 'bus-combi', you can't travel with your own car but you must go to the stadium or an other place to travel by bus.
I believe in Spain there's only a few away support, so not many problems there I think. In England everything is improved, but there's lots of police around the stadium during the match.
Thanks for all the interesting responses. I must say I enjoy watching football on TV but I very much dislike the general atmosphere in the stadiums. Granted I have not been to many big matches so I don't have much experience to draw from, but my few visits have been enough to really turn me off.
Last September for example I went to see the Champions Leage match between Marseille and Dortmund. I got the cheapest tickets, which was in the "Virage Nord", the most notorious part of the stadium apparently. But before and during the game you were mostly supposed to participate in insulting chants towards the fans of the other team. Usually calling them gay and so on. I have an aversion of chanting anything in large groups, let alone calling people gay which I assume is seen as an insult among these people. It was odd though because people were also impressed by the performances that the other fans did. But then they would go back to calling them gay and so on. Someone told me they were surprised that the fans of Dortmund got placed so closely to the Virage Nord, "if this was the fans of PSG, you would see all kinds of objects flying their way".
Most people were drunk or high, the general atmosphere was quite agressive. Luckily Marseille won 3-0 and there were no controversial decisions in the game, I wouldn't want to know how the atmosphere would have been in that case. After the goals people freak out and there is a giant moshpit, but since it's on ranks and not on flat ground it's freakishly dangerous. During one of these moshpits my friend got his nacklace ripped from his neck and almost got strangled. On the way home I saw the buses of the Dortmund fans, each one escorted by two police vans.
And I'd like to reiterate that this was a very uncontroversial game with half the stadium empty due to renovations and with a very good outcome for the home team. I think it's just sad to see that this kind of group mentality attracts so many people, even if all the group does is insult others, get drunk and do moshpits. If I had kids I wouldn't take them to a game, not even to the safe areas where there is seating, the general atmosphere is just way too hateful and agressive.
I have been to MLB, MLS and NFL games and the atmosphere is completely different. Baseball is completely peaceful and NFL and MLS are a little crazier and people are more drunk but still it all seems like one big party and not some kind of a war between fans. I feel like people really go there to see the sport and to celebrate the sport, rather than get their heads smashed in. Maybe it has to do with the very strict alcohol rules in the US or maybe also with the fact that not many fans can afford to fly across a continent just to see their team play. Maybe it also has to do with the fact that a lot of teams come and go quite quickly so there is no time for a fan "culture" (as they like to call it in Germany) to grow. But when I think about all the hate and violence the word "culture" seems grossly inappropriate!
Last September for example I went to see the Champions Leage match between Marseille and Dortmund. I got the cheapest tickets, which was in the "Virage Nord", the most notorious part of the stadium apparently. But before and during the game you were mostly supposed to participate in insulting chants towards the fans of the other team. Usually calling them gay and so on. I have an aversion of chanting anything in large groups, let alone calling people gay which I assume is seen as an insult among these people. It was odd though because people were also impressed by the performances that the other fans did. But then they would go back to calling them gay and so on. Someone told me they were surprised that the fans of Dortmund got placed so closely to the Virage Nord, "if this was the fans of PSG, you would see all kinds of objects flying their way".
Most people were drunk or high, the general atmosphere was quite agressive. Luckily Marseille won 3-0 and there were no controversial decisions in the game, I wouldn't want to know how the atmosphere would have been in that case. After the goals people freak out and there is a giant moshpit, but since it's on ranks and not on flat ground it's freakishly dangerous. During one of these moshpits my friend got his nacklace ripped from his neck and almost got strangled. On the way home I saw the buses of the Dortmund fans, each one escorted by two police vans.
And I'd like to reiterate that this was a very uncontroversial game with half the stadium empty due to renovations and with a very good outcome for the home team. I think it's just sad to see that this kind of group mentality attracts so many people, even if all the group does is insult others, get drunk and do moshpits. If I had kids I wouldn't take them to a game, not even to the safe areas where there is seating, the general atmosphere is just way too hateful and agressive.
I have been to MLB, MLS and NFL games and the atmosphere is completely different. Baseball is completely peaceful and NFL and MLS are a little crazier and people are more drunk but still it all seems like one big party and not some kind of a war between fans. I feel like people really go there to see the sport and to celebrate the sport, rather than get their heads smashed in. Maybe it has to do with the very strict alcohol rules in the US or maybe also with the fact that not many fans can afford to fly across a continent just to see their team play. Maybe it also has to do with the fact that a lot of teams come and go quite quickly so there is no time for a fan "culture" (as they like to call it in Germany) to grow. But when I think about all the hate and violence the word "culture" seems grossly inappropriate!
Jakob747 said:This might be a bit off-topic, but I absolutely love Scottish football for sentimental reasons.
I remember sitting in school (Whishing it was over) eager to hurry home and fire up the MS-DOS prompt, and start my Rangers save in Champions Manager-2. The match-engine was so simple back then, but just the mere fact you were in charge of making Richard Gough captain and had to remember to put A. Mikhailichenko on the left-wing and where in control of shopping the transfer-market where a wondrous thing for me back then!
I remember that for some reason I always bought Anders Limpar to strengthen the midfield in that edition. Just as Tomáš Skuhravý ALWAYS where brought in from Genoa. Skuhravý and Mark Hateley where pure dynamite together up-front.
Amazing that so many years after I still play the series from time to time. Although now a days I am way more obsessed with trying to emulating tiki taka and get 100 passes out of Xavi every game without exception.
Good luck on the derby. I will absolutely cross my fingers for Hearts then!
Thanks for the support
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