The Real Football Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Well it's not exactly unheard of that the guy who gets the ball first gets rewarded. I don't think Kane's kick was much worse than Dumfries, so he would also have committed a foul if the latter had touched the ball first.

But if that view makes me a blind Englishman, so be it.

I don't think there's a foul either way in that. It's a contact sport, it was just a collision. Nobody was making a challenge, one guy was trying to shoot and the other trying to block. If defenders aren't allowed to try to block the ball, then they need to clarify that in the rules.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So it's either diving bloodbags or England

Just kill me.

Aren't these the same thing?

 

[del1962]

Karma for Koeman after 1993

 

[Tim Cahill]

Thought we were just about better

Harsh pen I thought, wasn't a dive from Kane but he kindof kicked his foot, I'd be irritated to go out to that. Then again;

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The goal should have been disallowed since Dumfries didn't touch the ball.

England actually played well in parts of the match, but Spain should still prevail on Sunday.

In the same way as France should have prevailed against Argentina on paper, though, you never know when it comes down to just one match. Southgate's miraculous voodoo that enables all the good teams to end up on the other side of the draw and seems to be a magnet for cheap penalties at crucial times has been powerful throughout his reign and it doesn't show signs of abating.

I will view it as a net negative for football as a spectacle if Spain don't prevail, because they've been about the only team (other than breath of fresh air underdogs like Austria and Romania) to play a positive game, and remembering the spate of teams all playing absolutely horrendous game-killing stifling styles after 2004 trying to mimic Greece's success, but the Spanish team do have vulnerability at the back (admittedly Carvajal being back will fix a lot of that problem, as against France, Yamal's lack of tracking back and trying to play Navas as a fullback really left them overstretched at times, and England have players who can wreak havoc in that space), and after some absolutely miserable performances to get this far it does look like, at least in fits and bursts, England are starting to click, even if they're not firing on all cylinders yet and are running out of time to do so.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Please tell me that commentary is real.

Nah unfortunately not, the Scots like to do a lot of alternative commentaries, usually on England games once they've been knocked out of their current tournament.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Please tell me that commentary is real.

 

[Gigs_98]

So I did this weird thing of rooting for the Netherlands today and can't say I had a good time.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So I did this weird thing of rooting for the Netherlands today and can't say I had a good time.

This is a bad ploy any time after about 1996.

 

[gunara]

So what is England going to do with Southgate after this Euro?

 

[Gigs_98]

So what is England going to do with Southgate after this Euro?

100% they'll keep him even though I think that's a mistake. But you're not getting fired after getting your team to consecutive euro finals. Man, I really don't have a big problem with England winning a big trophy, but this team being the one to end the drought just feels wrong.

 

[Põhja Konn]

I don't think there's a foul either way in that. It's a contact sport, it was just a collision. Nobody was making a challenge, one guy was trying to shoot and the other trying to block. If defenders aren't allowed to try to block the ball, then they need to clarify that in the rules.

Why should this be looked at solely from defenders viewpoint ? Dumfries made desperate attempt to block the shot, swinging his foot studs first in the general direction of the ball . He was late there, didn't control his motion completely and in the end made contact with Kanes foot instead of the ball. He bares much more responsibility for this contact than Kane who was concentrated on getting the shot towards goal, as such ref and VAR had every reason to give the penalty. The justification for giving the penalty far outweigh the arguments for not giving it as the latter relies solely on absolving the defender of any responsibility for the contact. In the end, that would just feel like artificially made up reason just to avoid giving a penalty in a major game.

 

[Tim Cahill]

So what is England going to do with Southgate after this Euro?

I believe he plans to go regardless of the result

Of course his football isn't good to watch, if I didn't live here I probably wouldn't like us either, but as someone who has seen some real arseholes like Terry, Gerard, Becks put on the shirt, I would say his best achievement is creating a group of lads that people aren't ashamed of.

Scenes like this for example would not have happened 10 years ago;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809659744950288488

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why should this be looked at solely from defenders viewpoint ? Dumfries made desperate attempt to block the shot, swinging his foot studs first in the general direction of the ball . He was late there, didn't control his motion completely and in the end made contact with Kanes foot instead of the ball. He bares much more responsibility for this contact than Kane who was concentrated on getting the shot towards goal, as such ref and VAR had every reason to give the penalty. The justification for giving the penalty far outweigh the arguments for not giving it as the latter relies solely on absolving the defender of any responsibility for the contact. In the end, that would just feel like artificially made up reason just to avoid giving a penalty in a major game.

The rules already completely neuter the defender and enable the game to be turned into an absolute mess of dives and endless stop-start. Neutering defenders hasn't made the game more flowing and attacking, it's had the exact opposite effect. We already have enough decisions given where forwards leave their leg trailing or dangle it out in a completely unnatural position in order to initiate contact with defenders in order to go down and the defender is powerless to prevent it even though the attacker, by initiating contact by putting their leg in an unnatural position (remember the handball rules), is technically the one that fouled the defender. Dumfries wasn't trying to tackle Kane, he wasn't even trying to make contact with the ball. He was trying to charge down a shot. Any contact between Dumfries and Kane was incidental, not a foul. For the record, I don't agree with the ease with which they give goalkeepers free kicks when anybody challenges them for the ball either. In this instance, for added measure, Kane goes down like he's been shot, not because he's hurt, and not even because he's diving, but because he wants to keep the game stopped long enough for VAR to look at it.

They even had a referee as an expert on British TV (and you can expect them to obviously be rather generous to the England side) watching it live and she was astounded that it was even looked at by VAR, let alone given as a penalty. Besides, they already have artificially made up reasons to avoid giving penalties in major games, just look at all the pushing and shirt pulling at every single set piece.

 

[BullsFan22]

England have somehow made it to the final, after they should have been knocked out by Slovakia and probably by Switzerland as well. Didn’t watch today’s game, but the Dutch choking in a big game is not a surprise.

They’ll probably beat Spain somehow, bringing down the Spanish down a couple levels and lulling them to sleep.

 

[gunara]

100% they'll keep him even though I think that's a mistake. But you're not getting fired after getting your team to consecutive euro finals. Man, I really don't have a big problem with England winning a big trophy, but this team being the one to end the drought just feels wrong.

If England win this, this team will be good enough for history. I think only generations who watch them first hand will know how horrendous the footbal actually is. In the future people will only look back at the names, and mostly are more than big enough. It's the team that got beaten by Italy that I felt really wrong.

I believe he plans to go regardless of the result

Better for everyone. He has probably had the best years of his life.

 

[Gigs_98]

There is a controversy about whether that's a penalty? That looked absolutely clear cut to me. It's completely indifferent if he wanted to play the ball or not. You jump into another player like that without making contact with the ball means it's a nailed on foul. Also can't believe people think Kane wasn't really hurt. Have you people ever played football? That hurts like hell.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There is a controversy about whether that's a penalty? That looked absolutely clear cut to me. It's completely indifferent if he wanted to play the ball or not. You jump into another player like that without making contact with the ball means it's a nailed on foul. Also can't believe people think Kane wasn't really hurt. Have you people ever played football? That hurts like hell.

I can't believe somebody that has watched Harry Kane before think he is anything other than one of the most egregious divers in Europe. He springs back to his feet and takes the penalty with no sign of wear and tear, plays on for an hour with no ill effects, then does an interview after the game where he says his foot "is hanging off". It may have hurt in the moment, but he stays down way longer because he's trying to keep the game stopped long enough for VAR to intervene.

Not to mention that the ball hit Saka's hand just before. It was incidental and accidental, and I'd have felt just as aggrieved if it was chalked off for that as I do that a penalty was given for two feet brushing against each other when Kane kicks Dumfries' leg as much as vice versa - but it is worth noting Belgium saw a goal ruled out for a similar handball in the buildup earlier in the tournament.

England were, however, the better team, shaded the match, and of the two teams on the pitch they deserve to make the final more, even if I sympathize with and agree with the Dutch frustrations about the refereeing that got them there - but that's two straight semi-finals where they've been given an extremely soft penalty that's made the difference. Southgate's miracle luck rolls on unabated. They probably beat Spain now, which would be a travesty of football on balance of the tournament, but at the same time, as I mentioned before, Argentina outplayed France in the World Cup final. It was the only time in the whole tournament that Argentina were a better team than France, and they had fumbled their way to the final playing anti-futebol and relying on soft or cheated penalties, but by hook or by crook they got there. It's all just a little bit of history repeating.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Kane jumped into Dumfries moer than the other way around. But good to see we're back to 'have you ever played football"

Also hand ball leading into the attack.

To me it's actually the other way around. The fact that people think this isn't one just allows this sport to continue to be a disgrace.

The player who is late to the ball usually carries the most responsibility for the contact, not the other way around. Dumfries was late to the situation, could no longer get between the goal and Kane. As a consequence he had to put in a high risk desperate challenge with which he failed to reach the ball. Any contact with opposing player in this context is an obvious defensive foul.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

You know, there are actually too few penalties in football because the rules magically change in the penalty box. In the midfield, this would be called 99% of the time.

 

[Gigs_98]

Kane jumped into Dumfries moer than the other way around. But good to see we're back to 'have you ever played football"

Also hand ball leading into the attack.

To me it's actually the other way around. The fact that people think this isn't one just allows this sport to continue to be a disgrace.

We heve both referees and English pundits calling that penalty *** lol

The handball is a seperate discussion but the rest...just genuinely cannot believe people would blame Kane for being hurt there. Just like I genuinely cannot believe people just ignore the fact that Kane hit the ball and Dumfries did not. That's always been the rule. You cannot launch yourself into another player in hope to touch the ball and expect it not to be a foul as a consequence. I feel like everybody has agreed about this for my entire life just for people to be outraged by it since yesterday evening.

 

[Gigs_98]

It hits the shoe. Player has long history of simulation and diving. He gets up andbis completely fine as soon as the ref signals for the VAR

I dont know how anyone watches football and falls for that crap

Fair enough, it's only really a foul if there is a foot inside that shoe which is pretty hard to tell.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Darwin Nunez is in big trouble, absolutely classic scenes in the stands!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811282625522225174

 

[BullsFan22]

Let’s face it, the refereeing at this tournament hasn’t been great. I don’t think it was a penalty, but I also think Netherlands had the ability to do more in this game. Slovakia looked more dangerous for longer periods of time in their round of 16 game against England than the Dutch.

The Dutch couldn’t do it with players like Bergkamp, Davids, Seedorf, Stam, De Boer, Van Der Sad, Overmars, Van Nistelrooy, Robben, Van Persie, Van Bronckhorst, Cafu, and others.

This team is clearly not as good as those of 10-25 years ago.

I do think they have a team that’s capable of beating England and quite possibly Spain, but they have a hard time getting over the finish line.

We’ll see how they improve before the 2026 World Cup and beyond.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Let’s face it, the refereeing at this tournament hasn’t been great. I don’t think it was a penalty, but I also think Netherlands had the ability to do more in this game. Slovakia looked more dangerous for longer periods of time in their round of 16 game against England than the Dutch.

The Dutch couldn’t do it with players like Bergkamp, Davids, Seedorf, Stam, De Boer, Van Der Sad, Overmars, Van Nistelrooy, Robben, Van Persie, Van Bronckhorst, Cafu, and others.

This team is clearly not as good as those of 10-25 years ago.

I do think they have a team that’s capable of beating England and quite possibly Spain, but they have a hard time getting over the finish line.

We’ll see how they improve before the 2026 World Cup and beyond.

A different coach is what they need asap!