Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

Don't think Mads, Mathieu and Pogi let him go.

Paris 2024 and Wollongongongong say hi.

 

[AmRacer]

Paris 2024 and Wollongongongong say hi.

They have learned from WC, of course. And Wout was the key in the ORR.
That's why they won't let him go.

 

[fenns]

Evenepoel didn't lose the 2022 Vuelta or the 2024 TdF podium today. He's simply one of the guys that can be the best of the rest behind Vingegaard and Pogacar.

Oh he'll always be a top 10 GC guy. But to be honest in terms of winning a GT he should be worried - with a few riders younger than him who already look on the verge of being generally superior to him on mountain stages. As a GT winning prospect he's regressing.

 

[Red Rick]

They have learned from WC, of course. And Wout was the key in the ORR.
That's why they won't let him go.

I saw AGR.

They didn't.

 

[AmRacer]

I saw AGR.

They didn't.

AGR, yeah Pogi was a little bit overconfident at what he could do. It's Ala's fault 😁

 

[Brullnux]

Right, tell everyone not named Vingegaard and Pogacar to stop riding GT's then.
Never understood why people always overreact.

The thing with Evenepoel though is that he actually has many other things he's (comparatively) better, and some things he's the best in the world in. So, unlike every other GC rider, focusing your year on getting at best 3rd in the Tour de France is much more of a waste.

He's not like a Froome who could only ever ride GTs, he's someone who in top form can genuinely challenge Pogacar in the Ardennes and all hilly one day races (bar Lombardia), win world title after world title, etc. If he focused on other GTs then I'd be less critical, but it's a waste of his ability and his talent to forgo winning more races to focus on a race that he will probably never win, unless neither of the top two are there or crash.

I actually like Remco a lot, and will always support him in one day races against Pogacar and VdP, but if I'm being harsh, I think be suffers a bit from Pidcock-syndrome, though a deluxe version where the delusion is being an elite rather than high class GC rider (Pidcock's is that he thinks he's a competent GC rider at all).

 

[KoopaCycling]

Again though, his GT prep does not harm his classics/early spring season.
Why do people want to shoerhorn him.

He can peak for spring then peak for summer, than see what's left in the tank for the fall.
Just like every other rider.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This was tough to watch.

 

[Brullnux]

Again though, his GT prep does not harm his classics/early spring season.
Why do people want to shoerhorn him.

He can peak for spring then peak for summer, than see what's left in the tank for the fall.
Just like every other rider.

Yeah, this is my issue. Imo he should peak for spring to the detriment of his summer, and then peak again in the autumn. What's the added value in peaking for summer? The value in autumn is world titles.

But also, his GT prep does harm his classics in their variety. He'd never adopt a VdP/Pogacar March and April peak, because it puts you in a bad way for summer unless your name is Pogacar. We have also seen Remco really obsess over GT weight, think that the best way to do GT training and prep is spring stage races. But I'd rather he went for Milano Sanremo and Flanders!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No training base from the winter, so you can do the high intensity work, get better for a while, but you're not gonna recover as well so instead of getting better during the TdF you're just gonna go downhill from where you start.

Couldn't they just shift winter base training to the spring? Then preparation for the Tour would be similar to preparation for the Giro with a normal winter, or am I missing something?

 

[Red Rick]

Couldn't they just shift winter base training to the spring? Then preparation for the Tour would be similar to preparation for the Giro with a normal winter, or am I missing something?

Nah I think he lost too much time for that. Also, you're coming back from a lower level than you were when you start training in the winter. Winter training is just more consistent and has more high intensity work than back in the day according to Matthieu Heijboer, the head of performance of Visma.

 

[Oldman]

Couldn't they just shift winter base training to the spring? Then preparation for the Tour would be similar to preparation for the Giro with a normal winter, or am I missing something?

He needs to shift to another team as #1 priority. At least he's had an ample demonstration of GC team strategy by the other contenders and can make an informed choice.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That's why they won't let him go.

"The people's favorite cycling claim since 2019"

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Again though, his GT prep does not harm his classics/early spring season.
Why do people want to shoerhorn him.

He can peak for spring then peak for summer, than see what's left in the tank for the fall.
Just like every other rider.

Except Pog...Pog is peaked for every day of the year. It's like he is in a constatant state of fitness orgasm, peaking, and peaking, and peaking. That guy is not edging any fitness.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

This was tough to watch.

It is rare to see that demoralizing of a ride. I felt sorry for him, and I don't ever feel sorry for him.

 

[peterfin]

So reading this it's been decided Remco is no longer a GT threat and we need to view him in terms of potential for one-day classics?

Because it is decided that he will have a bad winter every year?

 

[red_flanders]

It is rare to see that demoralizing of a ride. I felt sorry for him

Came here to say this. All that effort, training, and sacrifice. Must just feel terrible. Feel for the kid.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yeah as much of a Roglic fan as I am, I think I felt worse for Remco than I did good for Roglic. Just not where he wants to be or should be. It must be hard to carry the weight of his own and others’ expectations and do everything you can to deliver and just not be able to.

He’ll bounce back, but I’d rather see him go for MSR, Giro, LBL, IL, Worlds next year than rather than sign up for another beating at the Tour. Third is definitely a realistic option this year still and certainly next year if he doesn’t crash, but Giro win >> distant third in the Tour (and really just a historical footnote to Pogacar’s greatness) IMO.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

He needs to change something radically to come out of this GT rut he has been in. The guy is phenomenally good and it is not coming out in GT’s. Like many have hinted before me, I think the change that he needs will come with the change of teams. Everything gets a fresh start and it could be make the positive difference for the rest of his career. At Quickstep I am afraid he will stay in the rut. I don’t see him changing his direction and focus only on classics. He has the right ingredients for GT’s but lacks the team and the consistency. Of course the effect of the bad luck he has had has not helped at all. Still the change of teams will be the crucial step in his career he needs. He has to leave the QS nest he grew up in and challenge himself in a new environment with new teammates and new staff.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

No training base from the winter, so you can do the high intensity work, get better for a while, but you're not gonna recover as well so instead of getting better during the TdF you're just gonna go downhill from where you start.

Tbf he never reached the level of last year Tour at all this year. In 2024 he reached about 6.4 w/kg on every final climb in the Tour, this year he is just plateud at 6.0/6.05

 

[KoopaCycling]

People always want to close down Remco GT ambitions.
Meanwhile he was third just last year. Where is Carlos Rodriguez, where is Mas, where are so many others...

I get it. He can do other stuff really good as well.
But there is rly no need for him to pick and choose. He can do both.
It's how a cycling season has always been set up.

 

[Red Rick]

Tbf he never reached the level of last year Tour at all this year. In 2024 he reached about 6.4 w/kg on every final climb in the Tour, this year he is just plateud at 6.0/6.05

I'm pretty sure he said himself he was between 6.1 and 6.3 on all the Tour MTFs, so I think there's some overestimation going on there.

But races are so different you cannot 1:1 compare them. 6.3 on PdB last year isn't the same as 6.3 on Hautacam this year because circumstances are different.

 

[Oldman]

Except Pog...Pog is peaked for every day of the year. It's like he is in a constatant state of fitness orgasm, peaking, and peaking, and peaking. That guy is not edging any fitness.

Actually and even within this Tour you can see his peak and average efforts. JV has made it very easy on him based on his ability to surf the pack. Today's TT you saw full commitment, likely because it was so short and he felt his major competition for Stage 14 would do the same. He goes into some races below peak but has enough to strategically game the other guys. Last year's Giro was a case in point where he was serious until everyone gave up and let him go on every surge. It became a training camp.
Comparing him to early season Remco when fan fever was hottest is a great example. Remco was good but very underraced due to recovery training. That's exploitable and you may not see actual peak efforts out of either of those riders. When it happens; you know pretty quickly who has overcommitted.
MvP schooled Tadej in PR after Teddy crashed by making him work to get closer, then increasing the gap where he knew he could make the biggest difference at that late point in the race. He was much stronger than TP and used his fitness appropriately. He walks from cyclocross WC to Tour stage winner with the same ease as Pogacar.

Pogacar is definitely the most complete trained rider for this Tour. Is it all real? I don't know and few do.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

I'm pretty sure he said himself he was between 6.1 and 6.3 on all the Tour MTFs, so I think there's some overestimation going on there.

But races are so different you cannot 1:1 compare them. 6.3 on PdB last year isn't the same as 6.3 on Hautacam this year because circumstances are different.

Maybe there is some overestimation but if it's sistematic the bulk of the argument still stands, especially considering his best performance came in arguably the hardest stage in the Tour.
One of my friends told me he was really sweating, so maybe he suffered from the heat, but I doubt that's the full story

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Actually and even within this Tour you can see his peak and average efforts. JV has made it very easy on him based on his ability to surf the pack. Today's TT you saw full commitment, likely because it was so short and he felt his major competition for Stage 14 would do the same. He goes into some races below peak but has enough to strategically game the other guys. Last year's Giro was a case in point where he was serious until everyone gave up and let him go on every surge. It became a training camp.
Comparing him to early season Remco when fan fever was hottest is a great example. Remco was good but very underraced due to recovery training. That's exploitable and you may not see actual peak efforts out of either of those riders. When it happens; you know pretty quickly who has overcommitted.
MvP schooled Tadej in PR after Teddy crashed by making him work to get closer, then increasing the gap where he knew he could make the biggest difference at that late point in the race. He was much stronger than TP and used his fitness appropriately. He walks from cyclocross WC to Tour stage winner with the same ease as Pogacar.

Pogacar is definitely the most complete trained rider for this Tour. Is it all real? I don't know and few do.

I just made the post so I could use the words "orgasm" and "edging" in relation to Pog.