Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

agreed. but i don't think "slaying the badger" will ever be out of his system. it is who he is. in fact, he even said that he was still disappointed to be second...

True, but seeing how he rose in the sport, to then realize he is a couple of notches below Primoz and Tadej, with all the weight of Belgium on his shoulders to become the first Tour winner since Merckx and Van Impe, seems to have spooked him a bit. Now he needs to get out of that being spooked.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I actually think he underestimates himself on the last climb, because he was .5 sec. up on Primoz at the first time check, then -8 at the second, which means he shipped time on the descent and technical part of the course. He then finished just 5 sec. down at the finish. This seems to indicate that he actually gained a couple of secs. on the final cobbled climb.

What second time check? There was only one. The GPS said -8 seconds at one point (just before the second last bend) but that was clearly a mistake.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes, it is very dangerous to eat too much on that climb.

There was an errr.... a food supply zone at the foot of the climb. Yes. That's it

 

[Extinction]

What second time check? There was only one. The GPS said -8 seconds at one point (just before the second last bend) but that was clearly a mistake.

Ah, well, it seemed like a second time check, although I thought the -8 was well before hitting the final climb.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Can you give me a link for that?

Its also what I've always heard. Doing a FTP (threshold test) an hour is usually not something you'd do to yourself, so most just go ahead and go 20 min max instead. I've done that a few times and thats not pleasent either, but its better than sitting there and killing yourself for an hour. Pretty easy to do as fitness bikes in Denmark at least more or less all have the ability to see the watts, and its pretty fun comparing that stuff to previous efforts, your friends, pros etc.

 

[kingjr]

Its also what I've always heard. Doing a FTP (threshold test) an hour is usually not something you'd do to yourself, so most just go ahead and go 20 min max instead. I've done that a few times and thats not pleasent either, but its better than sitting there and killing yourself for an hour. Pretty easy to do as fitness bikes in Denmark at least more or less all have the ability to see the watts, and its pretty fun comparing that stuff to previous efforts, your friends, pros etc.

I guess what I'm asking is: what exactly does "max" and "all out" mean. I mean, MvdP went all out in the sprint yesterday, but he could have sustained that for 20 seconds at the most; after that, his legs would have just shut down.

 

[Extinction]

I guess what I'm asking is: what exactly does "max" and "all out" mean. I mean, MvdP went all out in the sprint yesterday, but he could have sustained that for 20 seconds at the most; after that, his legs would have just shut down.

Anaerobic threshold is the highest exercise intensity that you can sustain for a prolonged period without lactate substantially building in the muscles. I used to gauge it at 80% of max heartrate. So if max heartrate is say 200, then you should be able to hold 160 for an hour without accumulating too much lactate.

 

[kingjr]

Anerobic threashold is the highest exercise intensity that you can sustain for a prolonged period without lactate substantially building in the muscles. I used to gauge it at 80% of max heartrate. So if max heartrate is say 200, then you should be able to hold 160 for an hour without accumulating too much lactate.

Right, I got it now, merci!

 

[hayneplane]

Really good ride today in a technical course. Beast of a ride from Roglic to deny him.

 

[Extinction]

Right, I got it now, merci!

Prego!

 

[Big Doopie]

So which jersey does he have to wear or does he get to choose?

the haters should chime in now on how he should wear the climbers jersey as it may be the only time he gets to in his entire career…

did Spilak ever wear a climbers jersey? That’s the real question.

 

[topt]

True, but seeing how he rose in the sport, to then realize he is a couple of notches below Primoz and Tadej, with all the weight of Belgium on his shoulders to become the first Tour winner since Merckx and Van Impe, seems to have spooked him a bit. Now he needs to get out of that being spooked.

he is a couple of notches below many other riders, not just Pog and Rog
BTW why are both options in the poll NO ? belgian Spilak is as close as we can get

 

[Extinction]

he is a couple of notches below many other riders, not just Pog and Rog

Well, we will certainly see at the end of Basque Country how he stands. He smoked all but Roglic in the TT. Again, last year should be considered a wash out. There aren't many with his experience, fortune and age that can claim to be better. Wait and see before giving the final verdict.

We are also in the Tadej era which has upped the bar exceptionally. Many of those who are notches above him, but will never become champions, have much further developed careers, have multiple GTs already under their belts, which change a rider mentally and physically. He is still just a pup who needs to mature.

 

[topt]

Well, we will certainly see at the end of Basque Country how he stands. He smoked all but Roglic in the TT. Again last year should be considered a wash out. There aren't many with his experience, fortune and age that can claim to be better. Wait and see before giving the final verdict.

this year so far was not better than last year; still exactly the same Remco, great at some things, very average at others.
Todays result was expected as is expected that Vlasov,Yates, Martinez,.... will smoke him on any steep hill.

 

[Extinction]

this year so far was not better than last year; still exactly the same Remco, great at some things, very average at others.
Todays result was expected as is expected that Vlasov,Yates, Martinez,.... will smoke him on any steep hill.

How so? What did he do before the Giro, recovering from a horrific accident, not one race. Then the races he is doing this year for the first time are WT. Look, I'm not convinced either way, but just say let's see. His career, so young and coming into the sport with just 3 years in the saddle, went off the rails at Lombardia. Perhaps Vlasov, Yates, Martinez will indeed smoke him on any steep hill, for now. I'm more of a longue duree analysist. And I imagine LeFevre feels much the same or he is a stupid man.

 

[Ancalagon]

Today’s result did not teach me anything new about Remco.
On the other hand, if he matches Vlasov, Vingegaard, Martinez and Yates when the road goes uphill, I would reconsider what I think about his limits and it would mean a serious upgrade in my perception of him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Great TT today and i noticed Remco was rather respectful in regards to Roglič in post interviews today. Kudos to that.

All in all i feel that Rogla is a suitable role model. Both coming from different sports in previous careers, making first dents in pro cycling by excelling in ITT. Over next lets say 3 years Remco needs to progress in regards to climbing. Basically the same path Rogla took.

As for current race. On the last day he will likely strugle. Beyond that plenty of opportunity for Remco to challenge Rogla.

Looking forward to that.

 

[Extinction]

Today’s result did not teach me anything new about Remco.
On the other hand, if he matches Vlasov, Vingegaard, Martinez and Yates when the road goes uphill, I would reconsider what I think about his limits and it would mean a serious upgrade in my perception of him.

It would be a necessary step forward.

 

[RunningRouleur]

I think he needs to go for broke on one of these stages and attack early. INEOS might cooperate with him. Jumbo hasn't brought their full TDF squad to control breaks. If Remco can gain a minute or two it could be a big enough cushion for the final stage.
No sense riding for a top ten here. He's Remco and he's clearly on some really good form based on his TT.

 

[tobydawq]

Anerobic threashold is the highest exercise intensity that you can sustain for a prolonged period without lactate substantially building in the muscles. I used to gauge it at 80% of max heartrate. So if max heartrate is say 200, then you should be able to hold 160 for an hour without accumulating too much lactate.

I once tried the worst possible way to estimate that threshold. A 3 minute effort where you at all times had to push as hard in the pedals as possible. Start with an all-out sprint and just see the intensity fall down until you have no anaerobic energy left at all and the power curve flattens completely. Then rethink all your life choices during the last minute, collapse and be dizzy the rest of the day. Ugh.

 

[RunningRouleur]

I tend to pinpoint the anaerobic threshold (FTP) at 88-91 percent of max HR, though it varies. I held 93 percent of max HR for 68 minutes once in a half marathon.
Aerobic threshold, which is more like "tempo" or "sweet spot" in cycling, is closer to 80-85 percent max HR. That's like "marathon pace" for runners or a wattage that could be held for 90-180 minutes for cyclists.
This is basically what you do when you're pulling in a breakaway in a 3-5-hour flattish stage. Then you go back in the wheels and let your power and HR drop for a sec, then pull again. If you are solo going for a long raid, you ride at 90-100 percent of this wattage on flats (you need to do more power on climbs) depending on how long you have to be off the front. Remco is really good at this, incidentally.
Also, this is the pace ridden on most of the longer climbs for the top GC riders. For example, you might have a Grand Tour queen stage with a 30-minute climb, a 45-minute climb, then a 30-minute climb. Unless there is a battle plan, the domestiques are only going to be able to ride the first two climbs at what is a tempo effort for their team leaders (say 5.2-5.8 w/kg) and then the GC riders will race the final climb at closer to their FTP (6+ w/kg) with only a couple domestiques left. Remco hasn't shown the ability to excel in these monster repeated efforts, even though his one-off efforts are probably right up there with the Slovenians.
Most of the climbs in Itzulia are shorter and will be ridden closer to 95-110 percent of FTP, I would imagine. Repeating those efforts is the challenge for Remco.

 

[peterfin]

If you are solo going for a long raid, you ride at 90-100 percent of this wattage on flats (you need to do more power on climbs) depending on how long you have to be off the front. Remco is really good at this, incidentally.
Also, this is the pace ridden on most of the longer climbs for the top GC riders. For example, you might have a Grand Tour queen stage with a 30-minute climb, a 45-minute climb, then a 30-minute climb. Unless there is a battle plan, the domestiques are only going to be able to ride the first two climbs at what is a tempo effort for their team leaders (say 5.2-5.8 w/kg) and then the GC riders will race the final climb at closer to their FTP (6+ w/kg) with only a couple domestiques left. Remco hasn't shown the ability to excel in these monster repeated efforts, even though his one-off efforts are probably right up there with the Slovenians.
Most of the climbs in Itzulia are shorter and will be ridden closer to 95-110 percent of FTP, I would imagine. Repeating those efforts is the challenge for Remco.

So considering that a pro cyclist is really good at riding for hours at 90% of his FTP on the flats and that, during a race lasting 4-5 hours, a one-off climb of 30-45 min close to 100% FTP is neither a problem, what process could make it difficult for him to ride two climbs of 30-45 min at 90% FTP followed by a final climb of 30-45 min close to 100% FTP? The only thing I can think of is that in races, pacing is not that easy on climbs vs flats, especially during a hectic final climb, so actual FTP will be +100% many times while dropping to 80-90% at other times. I assume that some ("the mountain goats") can recover better from these power bursts than others. If that is the issue, "dieseling" up the climb close to 100% maybe the best one can do to limit the damage although you will likely lose 15-45 seconds in the final as others can draft along and spare energy a bit unless you have a good domestic that can keep the pace.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think he needs to go for broke on one of these stages and attack early. INEOS might cooperate with him. Jumbo hasn't brought their full TDF squad to control breaks. If Remco can gain a minute or two it could be a big enough cushion for the final stage.
No sense riding for a top ten here. He's Remco and he's clearly on some really good form based on his TT.

No. He'll have to attack when all decent domestiques are done for. No use wrecking himself against a bunch of domestiques for dozens of miles for a 35s lead. Rival teams would just keep him dangling and then the GC leaders could reel him in and drop him in the final. At least, if he wants to go for GC. If he just wants a stage, and he's out of GC, then he could go early.

 

[Big Doopie]

Man, he really sucks at being a good teammate.

 

[Red Rick]

No. He'll have to attack when all decent domestiques are done for. No use wrecking himself against a bunch of domestiques for dozens of miles for a 35s lead. Rival teams would just keep him dangling and then the GC leaders could reel him in and drop him in the final. At least, if he wants to go for GC. If he just wants a stage, and he's out of GC, then he could go early.

The terrain is really bad for an organised chase especially for domestiques. That's the good part. I think the bad part is it's also a lot harder than what Evenepoel usually does his solos on.

But I also don't really expect nobody to be straight on his wheel if he tries to go.