Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I feel like the effort he put into winning the last sprint had a major effect on how he fared the last climb. Once he got rid of the lactic acid the gap stabilized.

It was damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He had to sprint or Martinez takes GC right there. Which would mean he'd have to drop Martinez on the climb, which was never gonna happen. By taking the bonis he still had a chance of he was able to hang on and Martinez didn't win and take 10 boni seconds. But by doing the sprint he decreased his chances to be able to hang on, on the climb.

He raced to win, he didn't race for the podium. He gambled and lost. I respect that.

 

[Ripper]

I conclude that it was a good training week in preparation of the Ardennes classics. Looking forward to it!

And I think that was the whole point! Looked like it was meant to be a really hard block, including helping teammates, etc. If you are really, really focused on the GC (i.e. one of your season goals is the win the overall in this race), then I don't think you are burning matches leading out teammates. I think he did a good overall race. Still unsure about the body weight stuff and how much is BS, how much is truth and OK, and how much is just bonkers

 

[Netserk]

totally, he descended super well.

I don't think we saw him much on the Ixua descent, but by the time gaps he wasn't fast there.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And I think that was the whole point! Looked like it was meant to be a really hard block, including helping teammates, etc. If you are really, really focused on the GC (i.e. one of your season goals is the win the overall in this race), then I don't think you are burning matches leading out teammates. I think he did a good overall race. Still unsure about the body weight stuff and how much is BS, how much is truth and OK, and how much is just bonkers

These are from last years winter/spring. How much would you think is the difference in weight compared to now?

Spring 2021:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1309795273422639

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/qst_alphavinyl/status/1309795273422639

Fall 2020:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFrjEooHAld/

 

[limak_]

This is from last years winter/spring. How much would you think is the difference in weight?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1309795273422639

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/qst_alphavinyl/status/1309795273422639

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CFrjEooHAld/

That one is from the 28th of September 2020. So probably a week or two after he had been immobilised with his broken pelvis for a few weeks. No wonder he was that skinny then. It'd be extremely hard (if not impossible) to get down to the similair weight while keeping power (and endurance for a 3-week race) at a reasonable level.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That one is from the 28th of September 2020. So probably a week or two after he had been immobilised with his broken pelvis for a few weeks. No wonder he was that skinny then. It'd be extremely hard (if not impossible) to get down to the similair weight while keeping power (and endurance for a 3-week race) at a reasonable level.

Sorry the tweet didn't come through. Can't find it again. This is february 2021. Compare with Valencia this year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1358744324922572802

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/qst_alphavinyl/status/1358744324922572802

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think we saw him much on the Ixua descent, but by the time gaps he wasn't fast there.

Seems very obvious to me he's very aero and fast and powerfull on easy and shallow descents but it's the technical ones that can be a bit of an issue. I do think his descending problem isn't as bad as many seem to think.

 

[Big Doopie]

...So the big question for him and those training him at Quick Step is; is it possible to lose weight and maintain power?

and not hurt his recovery or his vulnerability to illness.

...Then we will be able to see what a top shape and ideally prepped Remco is able to do at 21 years old (which is another consideration, for he isn't 27 or even 25 yet). This is why I laugh a bit when I read people already writing him and his career off. It simply makes no logical sense.

i think he is actually 22 (February?). so just 22. but no matter. call this the Pog Effect. if you are not winning GTs at age 21 these days, then what good are you, lol!? imagine a different time when a 22-year-old did what Remco did just in Itzulia...? i'm not even talking about anything else he has done already. but fans would be going nuts about his potential in GTs.

but there has always been a group here that has suffered from RDS, Remco Derangement Syndrome. They appear to take great pleasure when he misses the mark and consistently change the goal posts. for Itzulia, they said he would never survive the queen stage, he would get crushed, ship minutes upon minutes. but when he loses only 24 seconds, he should give up stage racing...!? Huh, what!? it's a very odd fixation, but oh well...

did these same people know that G Thomas was going to win the TDF and finish second. When he was 22, did he climb with the best?

the other thing that no one has remarked is that he seemed to "strengthen" or at least "weaken less" over the course of the week. while he was dropped by at least a dozen or more riders on the steeper slopes on the first day, he came over the longest 10+% slope on the last day in much better place having dropped riders who had previously dropped him...

he also has clearly learned to pace himself better on climbs, though he has certainly not learned how to save energy during a race by limiting his attacks -- he attacked every single day, nuts, but damn exciting.

I still have doubts about the long climbs above 2000, simply because he has not done this competitively. but those climbs are not 10+%.

i also have major doubts about his team. if he ever gets in the leader's jersey, how does that team possibly defend it, without leaving him completely isolated in the mountains.

Opponents will know now that they have to drop him on the steep stuff, because if they do not wear him out, he is likely to take advantage of the first shallower gradient right after to demolish them.

i really do hope that being the top climber on 13+% slopes does not become a pre-requirement for GT success. That would mean that the bastardization of GT riding was complete.

 

[Red Rick]

He's a 4th season World Tour professional. He was 2nd in the Worlds ITT 3 years ago and won Clasica San Sebastian at the age of 19.

I think it's kind of strange to roll with the assumption he's not an early bloomer.

 

[Netserk]

When Contador was 22 he was 3rd in Itzulia after winning the ITT. That was between winning Setmana Catalana and getting 4th at Romandie with a stage win. He too had made a comeback after a long break.

 

[Bonimenier]

When Contador was 22 he was 3rd in Itzulia after winning the ITT. That was between winning Setmana Catalana and getting 4th at Romandie with a stage win. He too had made a comeback after a long break.

So you're saying Evenepoel is the next Contador?

 

[Ripper]

Well, he obviously needs to cut those 2-3 kilos in such a way that he maintains the watts he is generating at his current weight (that way he automatically goes faster), otherwise there would be no point, as the one gain would be offset by the other loss. So the big question for him and those training him at Quick Step is; is it possible to lose weight and maintain power? Secondly, in the past when he was lighter, for example at last year's Giro, he was underprepared and thus that is not the gauge to go by. At any rate, I bet it is possible, with the right preparation, for him to get down to last year's Giro weight and have significantly more power. This must be what Quick Step is betting on too for the Vuelta, which they have already said in so many words: "It will be a different Remco at the Vuelta." And considering that he started that Giro with 0 racing in his legs, it must be achievable. Then we will be able to see what a top shape and ideally prepped Remco is able to do at 21 years old (which is another consideration, for he isn't 27 or even 25 yet). This is why I laugh a bit when I read people already writing him and his career off. It simply makes no logical sense.

I can't speak for QS, but there is science out there to show that within certain parameters one can lose weight while maintaining power. And one does not necessarily need to put on weight to gain power. It could be that they are looking to gradually reduce weight over the course of the season without reducing any power ... Time will tell!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can't speak for QS, but there is science out there to show that within certain parameters one can lose weight while maintaining power. And one does not necessarily need to put on weight to gain power. It could be that they are looking to gradually reduce weight over the course of the season without reducing any power ... Time will tell!

The team said Remco ''matured'' a bit physically and easily took on muscle weight with the new training program which was intended to get him ready for the Ardennes. They also said ''by the time we get to the Vuelta, we'll see a completely different Remco'' refering to his training geared towards longer climbs and his weight.

 

[Bonimenier]

I really thought the TdF parcours should suit Evenepoel better than the Vuelta parcours, but looking deeper into the Vuelta this year, that's probably not true. Kind of atypical Vuelta course. Most of the mountain finishes have quite shallow gradients. Only stage 9 is a real murito finish, but he should be able to limit losses there as the climbs before that aren't the toughest.

 

[Ripper]

The team said Remco ''matured'' a bit physically and easily took on muscle weight with the new training program which was intended to get him ready for the Ardennes. They also said ''by the time we get to the Vuelta, we'll see a completely different Remco'' refering to his training geared towards longer climbs and his weight.

Again, this is sort of a similar story to Wout, who claimed that he put on muscle weight really easily as he was maturing. Who knows, seems like it could have been an easy thing to avoid but whatever.

 

[houtdffan]

So you're saying Evenepoel is the next Contador?

Not enough TT km for that these days

 

[Nostradumbass]

The TTT in the Vuelta will be a must see.

 

[red_flanders]

Again, this is sort of a similar story to Wout, who claimed that he put on muscle weight really easily as he was maturing. Who knows, seems like it could have been an easy thing to avoid but whatever.

It's not always that simple, I don't think. I put on 30 pounds between age 20 and 22, largely muscle. Went from a wiry 6' 2" 175 pound kid to a muscular 6' 2" 205 pound man in just over a year. Did nothing to enhance my weight. Some people just change during that time. Were I working with a professional coach, I'd guess it certainly could have been mitigated, but I seriously doubt it could have been stopped. Maturing happens.

 

[Prim]

It was damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He had to sprint or Martinez takes GC right there. Which would mean he'd have to drop Martinez on the climb, which was never gonna happen. By taking the bonis he still had a chance of he was able to hang on and Martinez didn't win and take 10 boni seconds. But by doing the sprint he decreased his chances to be able to hang on, on the climb.

He raced to win, he didn't race for the podium. He gambled and lost. I respect that.

Yeah, I agree, he was backed into a corner. It would have been interesting to see if he could have stayed with the front group it the bonus sprint hadn´t been there or if he had decided to not sprint though.

 

[Ripper]

It's not always that simple, I don't think. I put on 30 pounds between age 20 and 22, largely muscle. Went from a wiry 6' 2" 175 pound kid to a muscular 6' 2" 205 pound man in just over a year. Did nothing to enhance my weight. Some people just change during that time. Were I working with a professional coach, I'd guess it certainly could have been mitigated, but I seriously doubt it could have been stopped. Maturing happens.

Dammit just spend a month with your arms tied to your body

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The TTT in the Vuelta will be a must see.

It's one of the reasons i had hoped they'd put Van Wilder in the Vuelta as well. He's the same size as Evenepoel and also a great TTer. It would give both of them tactical options for GC.

 

[Netserk]

It's not always that simple, I don't think. I put on 30 pounds between age 20 and 22, largely muscle. Went from a wiry 6' 2" 175 pound kid to a muscular 6' 2" 205 pound man in just over a year. Did nothing to enhance my weight. Some people just change during that time. Were I working with a professional coach, I'd guess it certainly could have been mitigated, but I seriously doubt it could have been stopped. Maturing happens.

It's funny like that, I've had the same weight since I was 17 (under 140 lbs), with only brief periods above that. I'm unsure when exactly I stopped growing, I think either at 18 or 19. I think it's normal for most to have their weight creep upwards throughout their 20's, but professional athletes are of a different sort of course.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Remco needs to do the tour this year

May not be able to beat Pog, but he has a better chance there than the Vuelta.

More ITT kms, plus, some of the uphill finishes, especially the 2 Jura stages to Les Portes du Soleil and the stage to Les Gets are basically made for Remco. Nice shallow to moderate gradients, where he showed this week, he can drop Rog at least. Plenty of stages for him to make time at le Tour.

At la Vuelta, I expect Pog to crush him on the Muritos

But also a "Roubaix" cobbles stage. Where he could lose minutes.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Another problem is his team. While even the classics team is underperforming this year, the "stage" team is far too weak. Vervaeke, Vansevenant, Masnada, Serry, Devenyns, Cavagna..... they can speed up on less difficult climbs. But not in the final or on a difficult climb. Knox is too low a level, even on his terrain, the mountains. The only one who will be able to help Evenepoel in the future, in a final climb, is Van Wilder. Van Wilder can even become the leader in major stage races in a few years.

 

[Salvarani]

Another problem is his team. While even the classics team is underperforming this year, the "stage" team is far too weak. Vervaeke, Vansevenant, Masnada, Serry, Devenyns, Cavagna..... they can speed up on less difficult climbs. But not in the final or on a difficult climb. Knox is too low a level, even on his terrain, the mountains. The only one who will be able to help Evenepoel in the future, in a final climb, is Van Wilder. Van Wilder can even become the leader in major stage races in a few years.

When the team is not performing it becomes evidently clear how weak their squad as a whole is both when it comes to classics and the supporting cast for the stage-races, especially compared to a few other teams. Mainly because of a smaller budget. I guess some things gotta give if they want to be able to hold on to the likes of Alaphilippe, Asgreen, Remco, Jakobsen and so on . They have seemed to manage with their stars winning races and many of the other riders chipping in with wins as well, but many of them seems to be out of form right now. Lets see if they will be better in the Ardennes.