Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[groogster]

Columbians are already smaller/lighter by design (8cm shorter on average than an average belgian)...

Maybe that statement of yours could fill in the natural born climbers category that i mentioned

Shorter, lighter, easier to pull their weight on those steep high mountains. Their bodies are naturaly born to be top climbers. On the other hand Belgiums and Dutch are more like natural born sprinters and rolleurs

 

[Riek s]

Maybe that statement of yours could fill in the natural born climbers category that i mentioned

Shorter, lighter, easier to pull their weight on those steep high mountains. Their bodies are naturaly born to be top climbers. On the other hand Belgiums and Dutch are more like natural born sprinters and rolleurs

True, but Remco is 171cm, he would make a good average Columbian

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If Almeida is on good form I doubt that Evenepoel could gain him more than 40/50 seconds in a 30k iTT (imo he will gain around 1.5 seconds per KM on Almeida)

Say 45 seconds in 31k, or even if it's less. There is also the TTT. If QS puts the squad together that they should be putting together (Evenepoel, Van Wilder, Masnada, Alaphilippe, Cavagna...), they will definitely take more than 15s out of UAE in 23k.

 

[frisenfruitig]

This whole "natural born climber" debate seems kinda pointless considering the best climbers these days are white guys who weren't born or are used to living at high altitude more often than not. Some people are born with a lot of fast twitch muscle fibers compared to slow twitch, some people react well to high altitude, others can't handle it as well. I don't believe there is much more to it.

There are so many columbians etc. who were basically born in the mountains yet that doesn't seem to help much against Vingegaard or Pogacar.

 

[Red Rick]

This whole "natural born climber" debate seems kinda pointless considering the best climbers these days are white guys who weren't born or are used to living at high altitude more often than not. Some people are born with a lot of fast twitch muscle fibers compared to slow twitch, some people react well to high altitude, others can't handle it as well. I don't believe there is much more to it.

There are so many columbians etc. who were basically born in the mountains yet that doesn't seem to help much against Vingegaard or Pogacar.

It's more of a body type thing than a being born at altitude thing, and average height in Europe, especially northern Europe, is a basically bigger than idea for climbers, so the population to pick from would be smaller.

The 2nd part is natural selection in junior races.

 

[Netserk]

How many watts you can push in a TT position is different to how many you can push on low gradients, which is also different compared to crawling murs. Leipheimer was also short and a lightweight, but that didn't make him a "natural" climber.

 

[groogster]

It's more of a body type thing than a being born at altitude thing, and average height in Europe, especially northern Europe, is a basically bigger than idea for climbers, so the population to pick from would be smaller.

The 2nd part is natural selection in junior races.

It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?

 

[Oldermanish]

It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?

You're right that you can improve your performance by specific training and careers change with that in mind. When you talk about riders from Columbia and Ecuador; they don't have many training options unless they move to a coastal town. It's a glamorous profession for them and it has the same attraction as NBA basketball has for every gifted, tall kid worldwide. Glory and money draw the best from those environments. A Peruvian friend noted that kids there are catching the bug.
Being born at altitude also likely minimizes the option to train as a power sprinter unless you live high, train low. Pros go to altitude to lessen the effect but not necessarily to train for strength. They are all data addicts and the best way to see what tolerances you possess for a 30 km climb above 6,000' is to do it. The news is not always good and career goals will reflect that. Training to go above 7,000' is a whole different deal, too. It was considered borderline doping when the concept of sleeping in pressurized environments became possible. It is expensive to create those living situations and the UCI was pressured to "regulate" an almost unregulatable training aid. Probably not an issue anymore.
I have no doubt that Egan and Nairo could be great Criterium riders if they trained extensively at lower levels. They are snappy riders that seem to recover from attacks well. Uran and others maybe not so much.

There is also the reality (and common knowledge) that a training camp can separate the riders from prying eyes and inquisitive minds of doping regulators. Those camps are a time-honored tradition like Winter camps on remote islands among cheaters and pushes the topic to the other side of the forum.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

moun

It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?

"why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude ?" Not only to improve their performance in the mountain stages. Also not climbers, domestiques, TT-specialists do training camps at altitude. And. A marathon runner also do training camps at high altitude. It is even clearer that it is not about climbing better.

Of course, a climber and GT-rider can also train climbing at high altitude.
That is quite easy, because training at altitude (in themountains) usually means that there are also climbs on which you can train.

 

[Red Rick]

It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?

You only need a few weeks to get teh benefits of altitude camps, while all the racing is done in relatively low altitude, high oxygen environments. Between the two I don't doub selective pressure on performing at sea level is more important than selective pressure in performing at super high altitude.

 

[Riek s]

How many watts you can push in a TT position is different to how many you can push on low gradients, which is also different compared to crawling murs. Leipheimer was also short and a lightweight, but that didn't make him a "natural" climber.

Good that you bring up Levi Leipheimer!!

A little more cramped, but not that far off from Remco given 10 year difference in TT position knowledge. (biggest change since the 2000s). His weight and height are also the same as Remco.
But Levi was a lot more limited in his power output than Remco ofcourse. (at least compared to what Remco is racing and Levi was racing against).
I think that Remco might even win from him in the sprint

 

[groogster]

Well this all started with that "natural born climber" sentence regarding Evenepoel which I still believe by common sense that it's a valid and true statement, there are indeed riders that are build for climbing

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Let's see him running amok with his mate Fausto in San Sebastian vamossssss. Aupa!

 

[postmanhat]

Well this all started with that "natural born climber" sentence regarding Evenepoel which I still believe by common sense that it's a valid and true statement, there are indeed riders that are build for climbing

This is the Evenepoel thread. Truth is an illusion.

 

[Oldermanish]

Good that you bring up Levi Leipheimer!!

A little more cramped, but not that far off from Remco given 10 year difference in TT position knowledge. (biggest change since the 2000s). His weight and height are also the same as Remco.
But Levi was a lot more limited in his power output than Remco ofcourse. (at least compared to what Remco is racing and Levi was racing against).
I think that Remco might even win from him in the sprint

Yeah....this is a horrible thing to do to your body.

 

[Andre]

Remco Evenepoel targets Clasica San Sebastian on way to Vuelta a España test


Belgian describes the Grand Tours as a dream after watching 2022 Tour de France on TV
WOOOHOOO...here we go.

 

[groogster]

Remco Evenepoel targets Clasica San Sebastian on way to Vuelta a España test


Belgian describes the Grand Tours as a dream after watching 2022 Tour de France on TV
WOOOHOOO...here we go.

I just want a Remco vs Almeida showdown!! Waiting for it since last years Giro !!

 

[groogster]

Say 45 seconds in 31k, or even if it's less. There is also the TTT. If QS puts the squad together that they should be putting together (Evenepoel, Van Wilder, Masnada, Alaphilippe, Cavagna...), they will definitely take more than 15s out of UAE in 23k.

Quite Possible yes.

 

[Big Doopie]

2 Kgs lighter than at LBL according to…him.

 

[Riek s]

2 Kgs lighter than at LBL according to…him.

Thats 61-62kg?

Ofcourse he still needs to do more intensive trainings, so hard to determine how it impacts his wattages.

Also from an interview: His most important goal in the vuelta is a stage victory, a nice spot in the final classification would be a nice extra.

So lets wait and see how it goes...

 

[Big Doopie]

Thats 61-62kg?

Ofcourse he still needs to do more intensive trainings, so hard to determine how it impacts his wattages.

Also from an interview: His most important goal in the vuelta is a stage victory, a nice spot in the final classification would be a nice extra.

So lets wait and see how it goes...

yeah, i saw that. he says he wants to be aggressive no matter what. so it may be a great first week/10 days and then... we will see.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

2 Kgs lighter than at LBL according to…him.

I only read that he said he is now 2kg lighter than when he won San Sebastian in 2019. Which should put him at 63 or slightly below.

 

[Big Doopie]

I only read that he said he is now 2kg lighter than when he won San Sebastian in 2019. Which should put him at 63 or slightly below.

Velonews has him quoted as lightest of this whole season and 2kgs lighter than LBL. lost in translation? Idk. Seems pretty specific, particularly the comparison with LBL.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Velonews has him quoted as lightest of this whole season and 2kgs lighter than LBL. lost in translation? Idk. Seems pretty specific, particularly the comparison with LBL.

Here's the quote on Sporza:

Evenepoel: "Ik kan de koers beter lezen"
Evenepoel dicht zichzelf betere kansen om de Clasica San Sebastian te winnen dan in 2019. "Ik ben een completere renner dan drie jaar geleden. Als 19-jarige was mijn lichaam nog niet volledig ontwikkeld."

"Ik kan de koers nu ook beter lezen, ik ben intelligenter. Mijn gewicht schommelde vroeger ook, maar dat is nu stabieler. Ik weeg 2 kg minder, maar ben nog altijd even explosief. Het gevoel zit dus goed."

I haven't seen Velonews' source though.

 

[Riek s]

Hard to read what he meant.

He is weighing 2kg less but still just as explosive. the intial context is Classica SB 2019, but the explosiveness is out of place, since his explosiveness would point to LBL and not 2019 where his wins were just by dropping them due to fatigue and not by his jump.