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Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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groogster

May 18, 2021
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Red Rick said:
It's more of a body type thing than a being born at altitude thing, and average height in Europe, especially northern Europe, is a basically bigger than idea for climbers, so the population to pick from would be smaller.

The 2nd part is natural selection in junior races.
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It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?
 
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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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groogster said:
It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?
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You're right that you can improve your performance by specific training and careers change with that in mind. When you talk about riders from Columbia and Ecuador; they don't have many training options unless they move to a coastal town. It's a glamorous profession for them and it has the same attraction as NBA basketball has for every gifted, tall kid worldwide. Glory and money draw the best from those environments. A Peruvian friend noted that kids there are catching the bug.
Being born at altitude also likely minimizes the option to train as a power sprinter unless you live high, train low. Pros go to altitude to lessen the effect but not necessarily to train for strength. They are all data addicts and the best way to see what tolerances you possess for a 30 km climb above 6,000' is to do it. The news is not always good and career goals will reflect that. Training to go above 7,000' is a whole different deal, too. It was considered borderline doping when the concept of sleeping in pressurized environments became possible. It is expensive to create those living situations and the UCI was pressured to "regulate" an almost unregulatable training aid. Probably not an issue anymore.
I have no doubt that Egan and Nairo could be great Criterium riders if they trained extensively at lower levels. They are snappy riders that seem to recover from attacks well. Uran and others maybe not so much.

There is also the reality (and common knowledge) that a training camp can separate the riders from prying eyes and inquisitive minds of doping regulators. Those camps are a time-honored tradition like Winter camps on remote islands among cheaters and pushes the topic to the other side of the forum.
 
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Zoef-Lightning

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groogster said:
It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?
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"why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude ?" Not only to improve their performance in the mountain stages. Also not climbers, domestiques, TT-specialists do training camps at altitude. And. A marathon runner also do training camps at high altitude. It is even clearer that it is not about climbing better.

Of course, a climber and GT-rider can also train climbing at high altitude.
That is quite easy, because training at altitude (in themountains) usually means that there are also climbs on which you can train.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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groogster said:
It’s obvious that genetically you can be more of a climber, a rolleur, a ttier. It’s also obvious that training your body for different goals can improve your performance at any given speciality. Having said that we also know that a guy can train 6 hours a day for being a great climber and despite of that can be beaten by a guy that work less hours. Just a question… why do professional riders do training camps at high altitude? To improve their performance in the mountain stages right? So can one conclude that a guy that was born at high altitude and starts to ride a bike from young age at those mountains will have an edge if he turns into a professional rider in the future?
Click to expand...
You only need a few weeks to get teh benefits of altitude camps, while all the racing is done in relatively low altitude, high oxygen environments. Between the two I don't doub selective pressure on performing at sea level is more important than selective pressure in performing at super high altitude.
 
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Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
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Netserk said:
How many watts you can push in a TT position is different to how many you can push on low gradients, which is also different compared to crawling murs. Leipheimer was also short and a lightweight, but that didn't make him a "natural" climber.
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Good that you bring up Levi Leipheimer!!
leviw1.jpg


A little more cramped, but not that far off from Remco given 10 year difference in TT position knowledge. (biggest change since the 2000s). His weight and height are also the same as Remco.
But Levi was a lot more limited in his power output than Remco ofcourse. (at least compared to what Remco is racing and Levi was racing against).
I think that Remco might even win from him in the sprint :)
 
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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Riek s said:
Good that you bring up Levi Leipheimer!!
leviw1.jpg


A little more cramped, but not that far off from Remco given 10 year difference in TT position knowledge. (biggest change since the 2000s). His weight and height are also the same as Remco.
But Levi was a lot more limited in his power output than Remco ofcourse. (at least compared to what Remco is racing and Levi was racing against).
I think that Remco might even win from him in the sprint :)
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Yeah....this is a horrible thing to do to your body.
 
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Big Doopie

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Riek s said:
Thats 61-62kg?

Ofcourse he still needs to do more intensive trainings, so hard to determine how it impacts his wattages.

Also from an interview: His most important goal in the vuelta is a stage victory, a nice spot in the final classification would be a nice extra.

So lets wait and see how it goes... :D
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yeah, i saw that. he says he wants to be aggressive no matter what. so it may be a great first week/10 days and then... we will see.
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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Big Doopie said:
Velonews has him quoted as lightest of this whole season and 2kgs lighter than LBL. lost in translation? Idk. Seems pretty specific, particularly the comparison with LBL.
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Here's the quote on Sporza:

Evenepoel: "Ik kan de koers beter lezen"
Evenepoel dicht zichzelf betere kansen om de Clasica San Sebastian te winnen dan in 2019. "Ik ben een completere renner dan drie jaar geleden. Als 19-jarige was mijn lichaam nog niet volledig ontwikkeld."

"Ik kan de koers nu ook beter lezen, ik ben intelligenter. Mijn gewicht schommelde vroeger ook, maar dat is nu stabieler. Ik weeg 2 kg minder, maar ben nog altijd even explosief. Het gevoel zit dus goed."

I haven't seen Velonews' source though.
 
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Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
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Hard to read what he meant.

He is weighing 2kg less but still just as explosive. the intial context is Classica SB 2019, but the explosiveness is out of place, since his explosiveness would point to LBL and not 2019 where his wins were just by dropping them due to fatigue and not by his jump.
 
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Big Doopie

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Here's the quote on Sporza:
…
I haven't seen Velonews' source though.
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www.velonews.com

Remco Evenepoel on Clásica San Sebastián return: ‘I am the lightest I’ve ever been’

Belgian superstar is coming off three-week altitude camp with the Clásica, Vuelta a España and world championships in his sights.
www.velonews.com www.velonews.com

Velonews title is misleading as it does not say that in his quote in the article. It specifically says this season and 2kgs since LBL.

A lot of the rest seems in line with Sporza (tho my Flemish is very rusty - only learned it in elementary school a long long time ago).
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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Big Doopie said:
www.velonews.com

Remco Evenepoel on Clásica San Sebastián return: ‘I am the lightest I’ve ever been’

Belgian superstar is coming off three-week altitude camp with the Clásica, Vuelta a España and world championships in his sights.
www.velonews.com www.velonews.com

Velonews title is misleading as it does not say that in his quote in the article. It specifically says this season and 2kgs since LBL.

A lot of the rest seems in line with Sporza (tho my Flemish is very rusty - only learned it in elementary school a long long time ago).
Click to expand...
I found the audio file. He says (in English) 1.5-2kg since 3 years ago.

www.cyclismactu.net

. Clasica San Sebastian - Remco Evenepoel : «Me battre pour la victoire !»

Trois ans après sa victoire, Remco Evenepoel (Quick-Step Alpha Vinyl Team) va faire son retour sur la Clasica San Sebastian (samedi 3
www.cyclismactu.net www.cyclismactu.net
 
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