Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Volderke]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolish any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

 

[Red Rick]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolisch any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

I do think when riders complain "you have no draft behidn Evenepoel" they just mean it's less, not that there is none, and generally riders with a CdA that low (so even smaller riders than Evenepoel) will simply not go nearly as fast as Evenepoel does.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Would have liked a more TT oriented team as well, but there are a few guys who are used to ride in sprint trains, and often those guys should not be underestimated in a short TTT. It's only 17k. None of the others are bad TT'ers.

Good enough.

 

[Oldermanish]

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

I do think when riders complain "you have no draft behidn Evenepoel" they just mean it's less, not that there is none, and generally riders with a CdA that low (so even smaller riders than Evenepoel) will simply not go nearly as fast as Evenepoel does.

I had the misfortune of drawing the position behind our lowest rider in a 40km/ 4 rider TTT and it was painful. There was neglible draft and then my turn to tow...the 3rd rider had a high position and liked to show his strength which added additional pain. Our tallest guy was gone 4km into the effort. The third guy flamed out at 20km and my job was then to bring him back from the gap he'd create. Pure amateur hour but was a good case study on the impact.
Having 7-8 riders can mitigate that with rotations on the "draft-lite" wheel but it isn't particularly effective. To Logic's point having some sprint leadout guys helps alot. Our next TTT included two large motors at 6'1", 6'4". They were big-gear mashers, multiple National and Master's World TT Champions that understood pacing. Much better results as they could close any minor gapping without whipping the rider behind them.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolish any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

Yup, small cross-section area combined with high sustainable power means not just superb efforts on flat but also comfort when hiding behind bigger guys (big drag reduction by them) and nightmare for his breakaway companions (low drag reduction by little Remco). Not only he cuts through the air very efficiently (when leading) but the effort he needs is reduced even more (compared to bigger guys) when riding on wheels. Bullet man is a very fitting nickname for Evenepoel.

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

Relative difference in cross section areas would be the first guess but it's way more complicated: due to a few variables

1. the fact that a rider ahead generally protects the least aerodynamic part of your body - central upper-body, which surface is closest to being perpendicular with the air flow vector while your "contours" (more aerodynamic) are more exposed.
2. OTOH Remco has probably also a better drag coefficient than most guys meaning more drag is left for a guy behind (by the air flowing around Remco)
3. Smaller guy's "countours" are also very well-protected due to a bigger rider ahead (so [draft shadow area/protected rider area] "difference" is around twice as big as CS difference i.e. 0.8 vs 1.25 when the bigger guy's area is 125% of the smaller guy area)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

A few years ago, in his first season he was in a break with two other guys. According to one of them (De Bond) he had to push over 100 watts more in Remco's wheel than in the other guy's (Wallays) wheel.

Not the same thing but gives you an idea.

 

[Didinho]

A few years ago, in his first season he was in a break with two other guys. According to one of them (De Bond) he had to push over 100 watts more in Remco's wheel than in the other guy's (Wallays) wheel.

Not the same thing but gives you an idea.

And if Campenaerts couldn't hold his wheel on a flat course, you know the guy behind him is suffering.

 

[Andre]

Fantastic job by Quickstep today. Go Remco Go!!

 

[Extinction]

The worst thing about a concerted TTT effort is fading back to get hitched on again at cruise speed. When a small guy revs it up before or after your pull it's a calvary.

 

[Andre]

Remco takes the leader's jersey today with a superb uphill dash to finish second and gains more time on Yates and Bilbao. Go Remco Go!

 

[Peyroteo94]

He looks powerful. Never saw this explosive finish from Evenepoel before. He always was a diesel who destroyed everyone with a hard tempo, a little bit like robobasso. But that sprint was impressive, I wasn't expecting that. It is important for him to not lose those 5/10 seconds to a uphill sprinter like Roglic in the Giro.

 

[Wvv]

He looks powerful. Never saw this explosive finish from Evenepoel before. He always was a diesel who destroyed everyone with a hard tempo, a little bit like robobasso. But that sprint was impressive, I wasn't expecting that. It is important for him to not lose those 5/10 seconds to a uphill sprinter like Roglic in the Giro.

Take a look at last year's Vuelta stage 18 and ditto Tour of Norway stage 5.

 

[red_flanders]

Take a look at last year's Vuelta stage 18 and ditto Tour of Norway stage 5.

Yeah, if there's a bit of a hill to it, he can really hurt a small group at this point. He's changed a lot.

 

[Andy schleck]

He looks powerful. Never saw this explosive finish from Evenepoel before. He always was a diesel who destroyed everyone with a hard tempo, a little bit like robobasso. But that sprint was impressive, I wasn't expecting that. It is important for him to not lose those 5/10 seconds to a uphill sprinter like Roglic in the Giro.

He's got some explosiveness. He did a nice attack on Liege Bastogne Liege.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

...Tour of Norway stage 5.

And stage 1.

 

[Big Doopie]

I think it also is about freshness. If he is the freshest, and he is now more often than not, then he will beat the others who are exhausted…

 

[Barkintheeye]

I think it also is about freshness. If he is the freshest, and he is now more often than not, then he will beat the others who are exhausted…

Professional coaches expresses that the main difference among pro-riders is NOT max capacity (for different time periods i.e. power curve) but rather the % of the power curve after a couple of hours of hard racing, i.e. the ability to repeat hard efforts close to the optimal capacity.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He's got some explosiveness. He did a nice attack on Liege Bastogne Liege.

No. Ive read the others just didn’t care and let him go. And no one peaked for that race, so irrelevant.

 

[Red Rick]

No. Ive read the others just didn’t care and let him go. And no one peaked for that race, so irrelevant.

You're mixing up.

The field was weak

 

[Andy schleck]

No. Ive read the others just didn’t care and let him go. And no one peaked for that race, so irrelevant.

You can make a explosive attack against a weak field.

 

[Andy schleck]

Jokes apart, the field was strong at LBL. Remco did a great ride. But this year he will be more marked when he does his attacks.

 

[Extinction]

Professional coaches expresses that the main difference among pro-riders is NOT max capacity (for different time periods i.e. power curve) but rather the % of the power curve after a couple of hours of hard racing, i.e. the ability to repeat hard efforts close to the optimal capacity.

It's called how fast you can recover after an interval and reproduce the same power, 1, 2, 3 times again until the elastic breaks. And this happens after repeated accelerations in the group that makes everybody tired, until someone with more in the tank surges ahead

 

[Big Doopie]

It's called how fast you can recover after an interval and reproduce the same power, 1, 2, 3 times again until the elastic breaks. And this happens after repeated accelerations in the group that makes everybody tired, until someone with more in the tank surges ahead

the amount of times he attacked and also closed down others in the worlds (and over 270+ kms!) and then still simply pulled away, may be evidence that no one does this better...

 

[Barkintheeye]

It's called how fast you can recover after an interval and reproduce the same power, 1, 2, 3 times again until the elastic breaks. And this happens after repeated accelerations in the group that makes everybody tired, until someone with more in the tank surges ahead

Fatigue resistance. Something most of the best riders have in abundance. If Remco is superior in this aspect I wouldn't know....

 

[Barkintheeye]

Jokes apart, the weak was strong at LBL. Remco did a great ride. But this year he will be more marked when he does his attacks.

Last year's LBL was something extra. Always great when somebody goes flat out at Côte de La Redoute. Maybe not the toughest hill on the course but arguably the most epic.