Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Good start for Remco today. He got rid of Yates in the winds. Bilbao is still in there though.

We'll know more after the TTT, but it seems it's between him, Plapp and Bilbao.

 

[Eeslliw]

We'll know more after the TTT, but it seems it's between him, Plapp and Bilbao.

It's already in the bag.

 

[Salvarani]

No way he loses this now. It cannot happen.

 

[Extinction]

The TTT now could already seal the deal if there are big gaps after between Evenepoel, Bilbao and Plapp, unless UAE takes the time back on the others, which is not likely.

 

[Jagartrott]

Quite nice to see the world champion actively doing echelon riding, not hiding, just racing and seemingly enjoying it.

 

[Extinction]

Quite nice to see the world champion actively doing echelon riding, not hiding, just racing and seemingly enjoying it.

That's his Monster engine.

 

[Berniece]

The TTT now could already seal the deal if there are big gaps after between Evenepoel, Bilbao and Plapp, unless UAE takes the time back on the others, which is not likely.

TTT might make sure that Bilbao is out of the race, but doesn't INEOS have proper riders with them? It's not like SQ has brought their A-team for this type of work. It might be more likely that Plapp takes more time.

 

[Berflamand]

TTT might make sure that Bilbao is out of the race, but doesn't INEOS have proper riders with them? It's not like SQ has brought their A-team for this type of work. It might be more likely that Plapp takes more time.

I would be happy if QuickStep can keep up with INEOS, Bahrain and UAE or only lose a few seconds. I don't think they're gonna be able to take time on any of these teams with their line-up but I'd be very happy if I'm proven wrong tomorrow.

 

[steffr222]

Great performance by Remco. Well played. And what a pleasure to watch the World Champion racing like this.. just compare it to last year’s flat stages lol (I know, under different circumstances- but still).

 

[Red Rick]

Best rouleur in the world by some margin

 

[Extinction]

TTT might make sure that Bilbao is out of the race, but doesn't INEOS have proper riders with them? It's not like SQ has brought their A-team for this type of work. It might be more likely that Plapp takes more time.

Yes, this remains to be seen.

 

[Netserk]

Best rouleur in the world by some margin

Better than Van Aert on the flat by some margin? No.

 

[Extinction]

Better than Van Aert on the flat by some margin? No.

And vice versa.

 

[Bonimenier]

Better than Van Aert on the flat by some margin? No.

It's not even close. If they do a duo time trial where each does exactly 50% of the work, Van Aert gets demolished.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Better than Van Aert on the flat by some margin? No.

Quite sure he is, yes. If Van Aert were in the same ballpark as Evenepoel, he would win a lot more races with long solo efforts, especially since his sprinting in small groups is rather suspect.

 

[Oldermanish]

The TTT now could already seal the deal if there are big gaps after between Evenepoel, Bilbao and Plapp, unless UAE takes the time back on the others, which is not likely.

Add crosswinds and the TTT could be the most important stage.

 

[tobydawq]

Quite sure he is, yes. If Van Aert were in the same ballpark as Evenepoel, he would win a lot more races with long solo efforts, especially since his sprinting in small groups is rather suspect.

I don't think so. At Omloop last year (and Calais for that matter), it was quite evident that Van Aert is a monster there too. He just rides a bit too passively to show it often.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Remco was impressive today. Still if Adam Yates or van Aert is chasing. That in my opinion still does make some difference.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think so. At Omloop last year (and Calais for that matter), it was quite evident that Van Aert is a monster there too. He just rides a bit too passively to show it often.

Van Aert is one of the best in the world, just not as good. Also Evenepoel definitely seems to keep fresh longer. After a hard race, he can still whip out a monster solo effort. Van Aert's solo efforts are generally much shorter. Remember Evenepoel's monster attack in Germany in his first season, where he had been doing a solo of i think over 100k and the peloton tore itself to shreds (and in the end needed to be motorpaced) to reel him back.
If you look at how Evenepoel (not even in top form) during the 2021 WCC was riding, and Van Aert was done while he had done 0 work himself. When Evenepoel goes, 9 out of 10 he's gone.

 

[Red Rick]

Better than Van Aert on the flat by some margin? No.

Flat ITT I take Van Aert. Taking turns in a long road race I take Evenepoel, especially if you have to do a solo after.

I may overrate Evenepoel a bit here because he climbs much better than Van Aert and is gonna be less affected by hills.

 

[Volderke]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolish any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

 

[Red Rick]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolisch any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

I do think when riders complain "you have no draft behidn Evenepoel" they just mean it's less, not that there is none, and generally riders with a CdA that low (so even smaller riders than Evenepoel) will simply not go nearly as fast as Evenepoel does.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Would have liked a more TT oriented team as well, but there are a few guys who are used to ride in sprint trains, and often those guys should not be underestimated in a short TTT. It's only 17k. None of the others are bad TT'ers.

Good enough.

 

[Oldermanish]

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

I do think when riders complain "you have no draft behidn Evenepoel" they just mean it's less, not that there is none, and generally riders with a CdA that low (so even smaller riders than Evenepoel) will simply not go nearly as fast as Evenepoel does.

I had the misfortune of drawing the position behind our lowest rider in a 40km/ 4 rider TTT and it was painful. There was neglible draft and then my turn to tow...the 3rd rider had a high position and liked to show his strength which added additional pain. Our tallest guy was gone 4km into the effort. The third guy flamed out at 20km and my job was then to bring him back from the gap he'd create. Pure amateur hour but was a good case study on the impact.
Having 7-8 riders can mitigate that with rotations on the "draft-lite" wheel but it isn't particularly effective. To Logic's point having some sprint leadout guys helps alot. Our next TTT included two large motors at 6'1", 6'4". They were big-gear mashers, multiple National and Master's World TT Champions that understood pacing. Much better results as they could close any minor gapping without whipping the rider behind them.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The problem with Remco is that he generates so little draft, that he will demolish any rider that is willing to go mano a mano in any kind of Trofeo Baracchi (2 man attack).

Remco gets all the draft by other riders, but he doesn't give much back in return. Very selfish in terms of draft.

Yup, small cross-section area combined with high sustainable power means not just superb efforts on flat but also comfort when hiding behind bigger guys (big drag reduction by them) and nightmare for his breakaway companions (low drag reduction by little Remco). Not only he cuts through the air very efficiently (when leading) but the effort he needs is reduced even more (compared to bigger guys) when riding on wheels. Bullet man is a very fitting nickname for Evenepoel.

I wonder how big the difference is. I know some research group in Leuven/Eindhoven did a lot of work on CFD simulations about the effects of drafting in groups, TTTs, and even the effects of the car behind a rider in TTTs, but to my knowledge they haven't published anything about the dynamics of riders of different sizes.

Relative difference in cross section areas would be the first guess but it's way more complicated: due to a few variables

1. the fact that a rider ahead generally protects the least aerodynamic part of your body - central upper-body, which surface is closest to being perpendicular with the air flow vector while your "contours" (more aerodynamic) are more exposed.
2. OTOH Remco has probably also a better drag coefficient than most guys meaning more drag is left for a guy behind (by the air flowing around Remco)
3. Smaller guy's "countours" are also very well-protected due to a bigger rider ahead (so [draft shadow area/protected rider area] "difference" is around twice as big as CS difference i.e. 0.8 vs 1.25 when the bigger guy's area is 125% of the smaller guy area)