• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

Page 572 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar

Should we change the thread title?

  • Total voters
    136
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
Blanco said:
Yeah, I know.
If this happened between Remco's first Giro and Vuelta win, it would not be a big deal. But Remco is a GT winner now, and he did that with supreme climbing performance.
This, today, was not a supreme climbing performance.
Click to expand...
He set the 2nd fastest time ever on this climb. So i would say it was "pretty good", to put it mildly. He has not yet gone on altitude, he is doing the Giro, which means he needs to manage his form differently from riders who will target the Tour. He needs to gradually improve towards the Giro, while riders who target the Tour, can have a first peak early in the season, get a rest period, and then work towards their big peak for the TDF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: steffr222
Blanco

Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
6,067
3,609
23,180
Logic-is-your-friend said:
He set the 2nd fastest time ever on this climb. So i would say it was "pretty good", to put it mildly. He has not yet gone on altitude, he is doing the Giro, which means he needs to manage his form differently from riders who will target the Tour. He needs to gradually improve towards the Giro, while riders who target the Tour, can have a first peak early in the season, get a rest period, and then work towards their big peak for the TDF.
Click to expand...
I know all that, you're kind of right, of course, but I still think his level now should be a little higher.
Or I have a greater expectations after last year's monster season.
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
Blanco said:
I know all that, you're kind of right, of course, but I still think his level now should be a little higher.
Or I have a greater expectations after last year's monster season.
Click to expand...
He had the disadvantage of climbing into a headwind, of which he did large portions up front, and that he should not come into the Giro overcooked since there is no time for a break in between, as opposed to riders who go to the Tour. And yet, he climbs 10 s faster than Pogacar's fastest time, who did in fact target the Tour (don't know the exact conditions of Pog's ascent, headwind or not) and still you expect more of him. With the risk of being called a strawman's argument, while in reality it is simple logical deduction, that means you also must have thought that Pogacar's level should have been higher here in 2021 and 2022.

I'm sorry but your expectations, and predictions (regarding form to beat Roglic) simply do not sound very realistic or credible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gregrowlerson and Big Doopie
O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
3,611
6,033
19,180
Logic-is-your-friend said:
He set the 2nd fastest time ever on this climb. So i would say it was "pretty good", to put it mildly. He has not yet gone on altitude, he is doing the Giro, which means he needs to manage his form differently from riders who will target the Tour. He needs to gradually improve towards the Giro, while riders who target the Tour, can have a first peak early in the season, get a rest period, and then work towards their big peak for the TDF.
Click to expand...
Let's be real about "fastest" and "2nd fastest time ever" when discussing the finish. No one in the race before or at this edition of the climb was attempting to set a climbing record. Yate's team, who hadn't hadn't worked much absolutely drilled if from the start of the hill. When they tired and the pack was shredded, Yates did the rest pretty much by himself. He wanted a podium; which he nailed down by 3 seconds! That's what the race was about and Remco got a free ride. Kudos to both of them and to a overheated Sepp Kuss for hanging on. I'll bet he's ready for some cooler climbing.

As for Remco's form; he's going well and not too well as you've noted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yaco
Andy schleck

Andy schleck

Jul 18, 2020
1,167
1,754
7,680
Logic-is-your-friend said:
He set the 2nd fastest time ever on this climb. So i would say it was "pretty good", to put it mildly. He has not yet gone on altitude, he is doing the Giro, which means he needs to manage his form differently from riders who will target the Tour. He needs to gradually improve towards the Giro, while riders who target the Tour, can have a first peak early in the season, get a rest period, and then work towards their big peak for the TDF.
Click to expand...
Third fastest time* ever but he is good shape.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1629827989327298561
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1629827989327298561
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
Andy schleck said:
Third fastest time* ever but he is good shape.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1629827989327298561
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1629827989327298561
Click to expand...
According to Strava he was 10s faster than Pogacar in 2021. I'll take data i can verify over data i can not verify.

Jebel Hafeet | Strava Ride Segment in Mbazzarah Al Khadra, United Arab Emirates

www.strava.com www.strava.com

A different Strava segment puts him 1 minute 7 seconds faster than Pogacar 2020.

Full Jebel Hafeet | Strava Ride Segment in Jabal Hafeet, United Arab Emirates

www.strava.com www.strava.com

Oldermanish said:
That's what the race was about and Remco got a free ride. Kudos to both of them and to a overheated Sepp Kuss for hanging on. I'll bet he's ready for some cooler climbing.
Click to expand...
Remco got a free ride? Remco did a 5.8km solo effort into a headwind. Yates did 3.2km solo, as he had been hanging in Evenepoel's wheel until he attacked the second time. That means Evenepoel was roughly 3.5km in somebody else's wheel before he took over from Yates and rode his own pace until the finish. If you want to talk about free rides, maybe you should take a look at previous editions.
 
Last edited:
H

houtdffan

Jul 20, 2019
2,616
2,325
9,680
Oldermanish said:
Let's be real about "fastest" and "2nd fastest time ever" when discussing the finish. No one in the race before or at this edition of the climb was attempting to set a climbing record. Yate's team, who hadn't hadn't worked much absolutely drilled if from the start of the hill. When they tired and the pack was shredded, Yates did the rest pretty much by himself. He wanted a podium; which he nailed down by 3 seconds! That's what the race was about and Remco got a free ride. Kudos to both of them and to a overheated Sepp Kuss for hanging on. I'll bet he's ready for some cooler climbing.

As for Remco's form; he's going well and not too well as you've noted.
Click to expand...

Remco got a free ride? He set the pace for about 3 km, making sure Plapp and Bilbao stayed dropped
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
VayaVayaVaya said:
One of the top 10 greatest w/kg climbing performances of the century, he says…
Click to expand...
Take it with a grain of salt, but i think it's clear it was a very good effort, especially considering the circumstances (headwind, no altitude training, early season) and the fact that he got beaten by Yates doesn't change that. People are acting like he's underperforming or way behind on schedule, they should look at last year's results. Hindley finishing 2 m 30s behind Pogacar... he won the Giro a few months later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Doopie and VayaVayaVaya
red_flanders

red_flanders

Apr 3, 2009
11,623
6,345
28,180
Wins 7-stage race in February. Races smart on the flat stages, stays up front, rides with power looking great in the echelons, dropping other GC contenders. Leads his team to a TTT win. Climbs really well, trouncing the group in a mountain sprint. Drops everyone but a fully in-form Yates, setting the third fastest time ever up the final, definitive climb. Again, wins the race. By a minute.

Conclusion? He's not a GT contender. He's off form for the Giro.

I mean, some of it is clear trolling. But some of ya...I mean...seek help.
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Haha
Reactions: Wvv, waku waku, carolina and 11 others
O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
3,611
6,033
19,180
Logic-is-your-friend said:
According to Strava he was 10s faster than Pogacar in 2021. I'll take data i can verify over data i can not verify.

Jebel Hafeet | Strava Ride Segment in Mbazzarah Al Khadra, United Arab Emirates

www.strava.com www.strava.com

A different Strava segment puts him 1 minute 7 seconds faster than Pogacar 2020.

Full Jebel Hafeet | Strava Ride Segment in Jabal Hafeet, United Arab Emirates

www.strava.com www.strava.com


Remco got a free ride? Remco did a 5.8km solo effort into a headwind. Yates did 3.2km solo, as he had been hanging in Evenepoel's wheel until he attacked the second time. That means Evenepoel was roughly 3.5km in somebody else's wheel before he took over from Yates and rode his own pace until the finish. If you want to talk about free rides, maybe you should take a look at previous editions.
Click to expand...
It's a race, Dude. Remco had every motivation to ride his tempo as long as he kept his rivals behind him. When a higher tempo was applied he had nothing to gain by following it; even if he could. UAE drove the pack pace until everyone was gone except a few. Those few didn't get down to Remco and Yates until the stage winner knew he needed more time. His DS was no doubt coaching him on the effort needed to gain the podium.
Strava is the history of the race....not the race. The fixation with it and output is lost on me. A motivated ride by Yates proved a few points....if not for a windblown gap who would've won?
 
  • Like
Reactions: wheresmybrakes
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
Oldermanish said:
It's a race, Dude. Remco had every motivation to ride his tempo as long as he kept his rivals behind him. When a higher tempo was applied he had nothing to gain by following it; even if he could. UAE drove the pack pace until everyone was gone except a few. Those few didn't get down to Remco and Yates until the stage winner knew he needed more time. His DS was no doubt coaching him on the effort needed to gain the podium.
Strava is the history of the race....not the race. The fixation with it and output is lost on me. A motivated ride by Yates proved a few points....if not for a windblown gap who would've won?
Click to expand...
What are you even arguing about? You claimed he got a free ride, he didn't. He only got paced the first ~1/3rd of the climb, the rest he was pulling himself into a headwind with 0 help. Furthermore, i am dismissing the importance of it being 10 s slower than Yates or 10s faster than Pogacar. I am simply countering people who are insinuating he is in way behind on schedule, bad, unimpressive, or claiming other riders who have never ridden this fast on this climb, would have made minced meat out of the competition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oldermanish
F

frisenfruitig

Jul 28, 2010
952
708
12,180
red_flanders said:
Wins 7-stage race in February. Races smart on the flat stages, stays up front, rides with power looking great in the echelons, dropping other GC contenders. Leads his team to a TTT win. Climbs really well, trouncing the group in a mountain sprint. Drops everyone but a fully in-form Yates, setting the third fastest time ever up the final, definitive climb. Again, wins the race. By a minute.

Conclusion? He's not a GT contender. He's off form for the Giro.

I mean, some of it is clear trolling. But some of ya...I mean...seek help.
Click to expand...

Some of it? You're being very generous. Trolling is very much applauded here. Don't ever mention anything doping-related though, mods can't have that. That has to be done in a part of the forum nobody reads.

As far as Remco is concerned. It's clear that he is on track for the Giro. Pretty big improvement compared to San Juan a month ago and still has a lot of room for improvement. Still has to do altitude training and can lose some more weight. Probably have to wait until LBL to see him in his best shape, curious to see who will be able to hold his wheel there.

Also curious to see what he can do against Roglic at 100%, should be an interesting battle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Doopie and Extinction
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
19,895
18,406
28,180
gregrowlerson said:
Richie Porte should have targeted the Giro multiple times.

Is this your own early season mini peak?
Click to expand...
Hindley, Bernal, Hart all won zilch before their Giro win. You have to go back to Carapaz in 2019 to find a Giro winner who also won something beforehand, but in his case, the win didn't come early season but just before the Giro, in Asturias. Froome in 2018 also didn't win anything prior, neither did Dumoulin in 2017.

So it seems like topcat is trying to bamboozle us.
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

Apr 10, 2019
10,891
13,925
23,180
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Take it with a grain of salt, but i think it's clear it was a very good effort, especially considering the circumstances (headwind, no altitude training, early season) and the fact that he got beaten by Yates doesn't change that. People are acting like he's underperforming or way behind on schedule, they should look at last year's results. Hindley finishing 2 m 30s behind Pogacar... he won the Giro a few months later.
Click to expand...
Frankly I didn't expect him to climb so good shortly after San Luis. He also looks heavier than last year when he won Donosta and the Vuelta, his arms are still not gt thin. The question is how thin do you wanna be for the Giro when you kinda dislike cold, rainy weather?
 
  • Like
Reactions: wheresmybrakes
Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
48,970
35,095
28,180
Mayomaniac said:
4 sec faster isn't obiterating the whole thing, typical LR clickbait.
Click to expand...
Normally attacks launch at the end of the steep section and they do the easier 3km faster. I checked the Strava files and Evenepoel was like 20+ s faster than Pog on the first 3km but dropped chunks of time in the final kms.. Which basically tells me this climbing record is just because the pacing was much more aggressive.

Also the guys that run the numbers for LR have a tendency to tweak their numbers IMO. There is no way Yates should have a lower W/kg than Evenepoel here, as Evenepoel has a lower CdA, is heavier. Tailwind gets ignored, headwind gets taken into account to push up numbers, that sort of stuff.



Mayomaniac said:
Frankly I didn't expect him to climb so good shortly after San Luis. He also looks heavier than last year when he won Donosta and the Vuelta, his arms are still not gt thin. The question is how thin do you wanna be for the Giro when you kinda dislike cold, rainy weather?
Click to expand...
Evenepoels best climbing performances the Vuelta were in the rain, but I don't remember how cold it was.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lui98, Sandisfan, VayaVayaVaya and 1 other person
steffr222

steffr222

May 15, 2017
168
246
9,230
Cold and rainy weather at Giro shouldn‘t be a problem for Remco I suppose. Still - descending will be a lot harder at the Giro than what he‘s usually used to. That could be a risk, but he has improved a lot in that context.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom