Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

As an outsider not from Europe, it’s always amazed me how big of a deal nationality is in the amount of press and pressure a rider gets. It’s not something that remotely registers to me normally. He certainly is one of the top dogs, but even compared to a guy like Pog he has infinitely higher pressure. That said though, I’m not really sure why there’s so much polarization around him in particular. He’s really the only one people seem to get so worked up about.

I don't know where you are from, Australia? The US? Somewhere else detached from the rest of cycling civilization? It's like World Series baseball (even though it's only played out in the US), or NFL football, or NBA basketball, in which urban teams - Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, LA, etc - are given huge press by local media outlets and mounting pressure is thrust upon star players to meet performance expectations as the season progresses.

The difference, of course, in this analogy, is that in cycling we are dealing with nations, not cities, but the principle is the same: the home, in this case national, press provides enormous coverage and pressure to its stars. The only difference again is that at the level of cities it's less likely the team star/s actually hail from the city (like the now retired Francesco Totti from the Roma football/soccer team, who was a veritable god during his career amongst the local tifosi and press). By contrast, if the team is French or Italian or Belgian or Spanish or Dutch, etc you shall still have stars from the home nation on it for the entire cycling fanbase of those countries to rally around, with the intensified mass media scrutiny and pressure to perform over the national heroes it presupposes.

 

[Salvarani]

Complete failure if he doesnt win all the GTs at least two times each and at minimum four of the monuments. L-B-L at least three times.

He has already achieved a lot but should be capable of more. More WT-wins for starters.

 

[Extinction]

If you are a football player in Argentina, you will also get more pressure than if you are a football player in Canada. But i'm sure if you practice curling or ice hockey, that there will be more pressure in Canada than in Argentina. Belgium, together with Italy and France are probably the three biggest cycling nations historically speaking, with Spain and the Netherlands following at a distance. But of those countries, it had been the longest for Belgium to have a GT winner. Yet generations still witnessed Merckx, De Vlaeminck, etc so the anticipation was immense.

Comes along a kid who rides the entire peloton into dust, wins by doing 100k solo rides, by up to 11 minutes, by having the peloton taken out of the race because he lapped them, repeatedly. Some bloke on an internet forum drops the name Merckx and the average Belgian cycling fan gets ecstatic and starts frantically hoping for it to be true. However, many non-Belgians don't exactly like the prospect of a new Merckx-like racer, so lots of people rather ridicule the idea (so many others were heralded as 2nd coming of Merckx and all failed miserably, so why would this one be any different). So the Evenepoel Trials were called into life. A series of neverending trials where the kid has to prove he is the 2nd coming. With every trial he successfully completes, hope warms the hearts of some, fear chills the hearts of others. But either way, tension rises. Add to that, that the kid is outspoken, so plenty to opportunities to berate him and his character.

Unlike Evenepoel, Pogacar was never heralded as an upcoming worldbeater until he actually was a worldbeater. Pog also comes from a cycling nation where there is 0 pressure. To Slovenians, i imagine Pog and Rog are a bit like Clijsters and Henin were in Belgium. In a country with little history in a certain sport, nobody expected anything to happen, so when it did actually happen, it was all good and people were happy for whatever did happen.

And this confirms that putting great expectations on his shoulders, comes not only from Belgium. There hasn't been a rider, since I've been following the sport, who has been hyped like Evenepoel. That he manages to deal with it at all is noteworthy.

Prudhomme hopes to lure Evenepoel to 2024 Tour de France with Nice time trial

'Next year he'll be the same age as Merckx was in 1969'

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[BR2]

As an outsider not from Europe, it’s always amazed me how big of a deal nationality is in the amount of press and pressure a rider gets. It’s not something that remotely registers to me normally. He certainly is one of the top dogs, but even compared to a guy like Pog he has infinitely higher pressure. That said though, I’m not really sure why there’s so much polarization around him in particular. He’s really the only one people seem to get so worked up about.

The level of interest in cycling in Belgium is something else, no other country comes close to the level of passion and coverage.

The polarization also comes from his character. He's a rather charismatic extrovert with strong tendencies towards arrogance and narcissism. It is no wonder that people have stronger reactions to someone like that.
Pogacar doesn't seem the most likable to me, either, but in general he's a bit more hard-boiled. Also he has won a Tour and that, as the pinnacle of the sport, is hard to argue with in terms of strength/result.

 

[Nick2413]

I don't know where you are from, Australia? The US? Somewhere else detached from the rest of cycling civilization? It's like World Series baseball (even though it's only played out in the US), or NFL football, or NBA basketball, in which urban teams - Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, LA, etc - are given huge press by local media outlets and mounting pressure is thrust upon star players to meet performance expectations as the season progresses.

The difference, of course, in this analogy, is that in cycling we are dealing with nations, not cities, but the principle is the same: the home, in this case national, press provides enormous coverage and pressure to its stars. The only difference again is that at the level of cities it's less likely the team star/s actually hail from the city (like the now retired Francesco Totti from the Roma football/soccer team, who was a veritable god during his career amongst the local tifosi and press). By contrast, if the team is French or Italian or Belgian or Spanish or Dutch, etc you shall still have stars from the home nation on it for the entire cycling fanbase of those countries to rally around, with the intensified mass media scrutiny and pressure to perform over the national heroes it presupposes.

None of it is surprising to me, I think the concept that it’s not just people in his own country but everyone everywhere carries the same expectations and noise for him because he’s from Belgium. Here in the US it really doesn’t matter what city or state a top athlete comes from for say the NFL, the expectations are purely based on their “prodigious” status or pedigree. Which Remco has, but still gets disproportional attention. But maybe the level of interest in our sports here is more homogenous and not especially revved up in any certain area, for the big sports at least.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The polarization also comes from his character. He's a rather charismatic extrovert with strong tendencies towards arrogance and narcissism. It is no wonder that people have stronger reactions to someone like that.

Does it? Is he? Or is it just the fact that there are a dozen camera's and journalists following him around and everything he could possibly do that might be seen as arrogant is recorded or reported, and will automatically get projected onto him according to the image people had already formed of him? Let's say he were to be filmed in the team bus right after a victory, ridiculing and calling out Jumbo Visma. Or if he were to be screaming and shouting at a camerabike because they were filming him when he didn't like it, would that type of behaviour fit your description? Because those are two examples of Alberto Bettiol's behaviour, yet nobody is claiming him to be arrogant and narcissistic. However he isn't followed around by camera's every second of the day, so what if there was a camera on Bettiol every race, like there is for Evenepoel? What would we see then? Or what if he were to scream fck you, fck you, f*ck you, after losing a race? Or if he were to enter the hotelroom of children that were playing pranks? Please go back into your mind and think about those things that made you form your opinion of him as (borderline) arrogant and narcissistic and keep in mind that you formed your opinion of him likely at a time when he was still basically a teenager, and who has been under constant pressure since signing his pro contract, as a teenager and under constant scrutiny. I wonder how you would look at your own child under those conditions and if you would form the same psychological profile.

 

[BR2]

Does it? Is he? Or is it just the fact that there are a dozen camera's and journalists following him around and everything he could possibly do that might be seen as arrogant is recorded or reported, and will automatically get projected onto him according to the image people had already formed of him? Let's say he were to be filmed in the team bus right after a victory, ridiculing and calling out Jumbo Visma. Or if he were to be screaming and shouting at a camerabike because they were filming him when he didn't like it, would that type of behaviour fit your description? Because those are two examples of Alberto Bettiol's behaviour, yet nobody is claiming him to be arrogant and narcissistic. However he isn't followed around by camera's every second of the day, so what if there was a camera on Bettiol every race, like there is for Evenepoel? What would we see then? Or what if he were to scream fck you, fck you, f*ck you, after losing a race? Or if he were to enter the hotelroom of children that were playing pranks? Please go back into your mind and think about those things that made you form your opinion of him as (borderline) arrogant and narcissistic and keep in mind that you formed your opinion of him likely at a time when he was still basically a teenager, and who has been under constant pressure since signing his pro contract, as a teenager and under constant scrutiny. I wonder how you would look at your own child under those conditions and if you would form the same psychological profile.

I can't imagine my son behaving like Evenepoel, no matter the circumstances, despite being a teenager. But of course every mother thinks their child is the nicest one.
I admit, my image of him comes from earlier, there have always been small things that bothered me, and once one has formed such a picture, you look at everything through a certain lense. And nothing Evenepoel has done is seriously bad or malign! It is often off-putting, though, like his behaviour recently towards the Medellin-team I think it was? When he complimented them on their jerseys only to state his was better? Yes, one can see that as a harmless, a bit wrong-gone joke, but it totally fits in line with a lot of other similar incidents which just rub me, and likely others, the wrong way.
I don't mean to form a psychological profile, I am not a psychologist and I certainly don't mean "narcissist" in a personality disorder way. But if people think others are just out to hunt Evenepoel down for no reason whatsoever they should at least take into regard that Evenepoel has done a few of those things that annoy people.
Of course he is not the only one in the peloton acting childish or arrogant or off-putting. Many behaviours are weird to me, maybe as a non-competitive female I simply struggle with this world after all. Of course the focus on Evenepoel is bigger than on others. But since the focus is there, well, there simply are reasons to not be his fan. He has fans enough.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can't imagine my son behaving like Evenepoel, no matter the circumstances, despite being a teenager. But of course every mother thinks their child is the nicest one.
I admit, my image of him comes from earlier, there have always been small things that bothered me, and once one has formed such a picture, you look at everything through a certain lense. And nothing Evenepoel has done is seriously bad or malign! It is often off-putting, though, like his behaviour recently towards the Medellin-team I think it was? When he complimented them on their jerseys only to state his was better? Yes, one can see that as a harmless, a bit wrong-gone joke, but it totally fits in line with a lot of other similar incidents which just rub me, and likely others, the wrong way.
I don't mean to form a psychological profile, I am not a psychologist and I certainly don't mean "narcissist" in a personality disorder way. But if people think others are just out to hunt Evenepoel down for no reason whatsoever they should at least take into regard that Evenepoel has done a few of those things that annoy people.
Of course he is not the only one in the peloton acting childish or arrogant or off-putting. Many behaviours are weird to me, maybe as a non-competitive female I simply struggle with this world after all. Of course the focus on Evenepoel is bigger than on others. But since the focus is there, well, there simply are reasons to not be his fan. He has fans enough.

I think you would be surprised of the behaviour of your kid if he were under constant pressure and monitored all the time. But you will probably find that out later.

Your example of the Medellin encounter is actually perfect. Those guys wanted to be on a picture with him, acting like fans, almost like groupies. Clearly Evenepoel was uneasy but he was trying to be polite and cool and tried to make conversation. So he complimented them on their kit. But ofcourse, when you are wearing the rainbow jersey that's like a princess is complimenting a secretary for her outfit, and it seems a bit dishonest, maybe could even be seen as a form of mockery. I think Evenepoel regretted taking their kit as subject of the small talk immediately, thinking people would see it as mockery. By jokingly stating the obvious that he is wearing the rainbow jersey, he tried to give credibility to his earlier statement about liking their kit. This is what i see. But you decided to project the image onto him, that you already had in your head. Because i'm just seeing a guy who doesn't really want to be there but feels like he is obligated to say something at the middle of the attention. Just because? When he was disappointed after the WCC'19 that he waved a camera to move out of his way? Because he dusted his shoulder in Burgos? What exactly did he do to cement this idea into your head?
Let me give you another example. He was once interviewed on the radio for a children's welfare organisation. I think this was prior to his crash, when he was expected to ride the Giro in 2020. The interview was done by a media figure (a singer/actress, having no clue about sports), and wasn't about cycling. But at the end of the interview, the girl asks him if he's going to win the Giro. He starts laughing and says something like "I'll try" or "I'll do my best". A few hours later, a headline on Wielerflits "Evenepoel wants to win the Giro". Now, at a time he had not even done a GT, he had only won Poland and Burgos etc, so you can imagine the responses about how arrogant this kid is, claiming he's going to win the Giro.
Every little thing he does, if at all possible, will be blown up and pulled out of context because the media know you will click the article. Half of it is based on bad translations, bad or inacurate transcriptions, or bad translations of bad transcriptions.

 

[Extinction]

I think you would be surprised of the behaviour of your kid if he were under constant pressure and monitored all the time. But you will probably found that out later.

Your example of the Medellin encounter is actually perfect. Those guys wanted to be on a picture with him, acting like fans, almost like groupies. Clearly Evenepoel was uneasy but he was trying to be polite and cool and tried to make conversation. So he complimented them on their kit. But ofcourse, when you are wearing the rainbow jersey that's like a princess is complimenting a secretary for her outfit, and it seems a bit dishonest, maybe could even be seen as a form of mockery. I think Evenepoel regretted taking their kit as subject of the small talk immediately, thinking people would see it as mockery. By jokingly stating the obvious that he is wearing the rainbow jersey, he tried to give credibility to his earlier statement about liking their kit. This is what i see. But you decided to project the image onto him, that you already had in your head. Because i'm just seeing a guy who doesn't really want to be there but feels like he is obligated to say something at the middle of the attention. Just because? When he was disappointed after the WCC'19 that he waved a camera to move out of his way? Because he dusted his shoulder in Burgos? What exactly did he do to cement this idea into your head?

To the bolded, no, come on, that's not it at all. He is the classic Alpha-male, who dispenses a compliment, to then restate his sovereignty by emphasizing the royal rainbow colors he dons so everybody knows where they stand. It was unecessary and pompous, but in keeping with a (and not merely self-styled) larger than life persona, who needs to walk the walk and talk the talk. But this is a venial sin of vanity, which folks can make of what they will, induced be external circumstances that have accentuated his own innate personality I believe.

 

[Netserk]

More WT-wins for starters.

A single podium in one of the seven greatest one-week stage races shouldn't be too much to expect by his 5th WT season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In regards to being regarded as the next Merckx and the pressure that comes with it. At least here Remco can share some burden with Pogi.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The level of interest in cycling in Belgium is something else, no other country comes close to the level of passion and coverage.

The polarization also comes from his character. He's a rather charismatic extrovert with strong tendencies towards arrogance and narcissism. It is no wonder that people have stronger reactions to someone like that.
Pogacar doesn't seem the most likable to me, either, but in general he's a bit more hard-boiled. Also he has won a Tour and that, as the pinnacle of the sport, is hard to argue with in terms of strength/result.

? Where has Remco any charisma? I didn't see it . For sure a little bit arrogance and narcissism but he is not particularly intelligent, interesting or charismatic.

 

[Netserk]

Where has Remco any charisma?

Well, he has a footballer's personality. I guess that counts for something.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

To the bolded, no, come on, that's not it at all. He is the classic Alpha-male, who dispenses a compliment, to then restate his sovereignty by emphasizing the royal rainbow colors he dons so everybody knows where they stand. It was unecessary and pompous, but in keeping with a (and not merely self-styled) larger than life persona, who needs to walk the walk and talk the talk. But this is a venial sin of vanity, which folks can make of what they will, induced be external circumstances that have accentuated his own innate personality I believe.

He actually doesn't mention his own jersey. It's one of the guys from Medellin that compliments him on his jersey in return to his compliment to which he jokingly (clearly not at ease) says "yes, mine is a bit better he!". What is he supposed to say? "Oh, this old thing? I just grabbed the first thing i could find in my closet"? No matter his response, it could always be seen as arrogant, or as a mockery, or as false modesty. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel that it's to early to write a person off. Personality vise. On top of that the mob likely won't like you anyway. As how can you like other people if you don't like yourself in the first place.

Likely Bambi would get butchered in this day and age. On the social media. Pointy ears or laminated brows is all it takes. No pun intended.

 

[Gargamel35]

I actually like him a lot. Much more interesting then Vinge or Pogačar. But he's not the next big thing at all. That would be Pogačar.

 

[frisenfruitig]

I think it's a bit silly to act like you know the personality of a guy based on a couple of interviews or how he acted during some races. I think the way he handles himself is already quite a bit better than a couple of years ago. It's easy to forget how young he still is.

Either way I wouldn't pretend to know he is arrogant or not intelligent since I don't know him personally. Someone like Pogacar seems like a friendly guy in interviews but for all we know he is a huge douchebag in private, who knows.

 

[Extinction]

He actually doesn't mention his own jersey. It's one of the guys from Medellin that compliments him on his jersey in return to his compliment to which he jokingly (clearly not at ease) says "yes, mine is a bit better he!". What is he supposed to say? "Oh, this old thing? I just grabbed the first thing i could find in my closet"? No matter his response, it could always be seen as arrogant, or as a mockery, or as false modesty. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Fair enough, but I still think he acted like a prince among subjects, but this is a venial sin of vanity as I previously wrote. It would be interesting to see how Pogacar would have responded under the same circumstances. Oh, wait, but he doesn't have the rainbow jersey!

 

[Extinction]

Either way I wouldn't pretend to know he is arrogant or not intelligent since I don't know him personally. Someone like Pogacar seems like a friendly guy in interviews but for all we know he is a huge douchebag in private, who knows.

 

[LucVdB]

I once read that we tend, for the most part, to see ourselves as fundamentally good people who sometimes behave a bit cranky due to stressful circumstances. But anything less than 100% exemplary behaviour from others is proof of their inherent character flaws.

It also doesn't help that English language reporting on Evenepoel often is a reinterpretation through a certain lens of earlier Dutch language press. It must suck to have ones reality defined by journalists who are trying to push your buttons.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Fair enough, but I still think he acted like a prince among subjects, but this is a venial sin of vanity as I previously wrote. It would be interesting to see how Pogacar would have responded under the same circumstances. Oh, wait, but he doesn't have the rainbow jersey!

Guys like Sagan, De Gendt, Van Avermaet have all said or implied they don't understand the image people have of Evenepoel. That he's always polite, easy to talk to, open, respectful... I think if everybody you meet starts filming you and wants you to say something into their selfie camera, there are bound to be some moments where you don't come across as the nicest person.

 

[Berniece]

? Where has Remco any charisma? I didn't see it . For sure a little bit arrogance and narcissism but he is not particularly intelligent, interesting or charismatic.

He is much more intelligent than the average professional cyclist

 

[Extinction]

Guys like Sagan, De Gendt, Van Avermaet have all said or implied they don't understand the image people have of Evenepoel. That he's always polite, easy to talk to, open, respectful... I think if everybody you meet starts filming you and wants you to say something into their selfie camera, there are bound to be some moments where you don't come across as the nicest person.

You know what, this is also the impression I have gotten from him. A veritable Hadrianus, Varius, Multiplex, Multiformis. Here's an anecdote, when Nibali crashed hard in training once before the Giro, the Italian said Evenepoel was the first rider to write him an SMS asking how he was doing and to wish him a speedy recovery. So, yea, a nice guy.

 

[Andre]

Fair enough, but I still think he acted like a prince among subjects, but this is a venial sin of vanity as I previously wrote. It would be interesting to see how Pogacar would have responded under the same circumstances. Oh, wait, but he doesn't have the rainbow jersey!

It's not an act, he is the Prince of Belgium...almost the King.

 

[Big Doopie]

Scenario 1:

Remco and Rog are attacking each other constantly during last years Vuelta on some fictional mountain stage. Just before the final MTF Remco looks at the camera, smiles and pretends to rev an engine.

He then gets dropped thoroughly by Rog on the climb and loses the Vuelta.

Scenario 2:

On a climb in Catalunya, Rog attacks. Remco follows and while sitting on Rog’s wheel, turns to the camera and smiles to show how easy he is following Rog. He then drops Rog.

What would be the reaction?

I criticized Remco’s shoulder brush off when he was only barely out of his teens. But even that arrogant (though misinterpreted) gesture pales in comparison to some of the things Pog has done. And yet the reaction it diametrically opposite.