Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You know it doesn't work like that. Küng took 3 seconds on Vine in the Giro opening TT and now 27. All in all a good result today. If I were Van Aert I would worry a lot more.

It doesn't work like what? Evenepoel didn't just beat Küng in the Giro, he also beat Ganna and everybody else by major differences, only 2 riders barely within 30s. Today he finishes 5 seconds ahead of Sheffield, 10 ahead of Price-Pejtersen and 18 ahead of Skjelmose. No disrespect to those riders, and surely we have to take into account this was a somewhat more technical TT, but i think the gap is a bit too big not to see that he is clearly not in the same shape he was going into the Giro.

 

[Ulle97]

Well done Remco.
A very good start. Putting time into all potential GC candidates.

No ill-effects of Covid visible from this result. Of course, Tuesday will tell us more but I'm glad he's back on the bike and back racing again at a top level again.

 

[kingjr]

It doesn't work like what? Evenepoel didn't just beat Küng in the Giro, he also beat Ganna and everybody else by major differences, only 2 riders barely within 30s. Today he finishes 5 seconds ahead of Sheffield, 10 ahead of Price-Pejtersen and 18 ahead of Skjelmose. No disrespect to those riders, and surely we have to take into account this was a somewhat more technical TT, but i think the gap is a bit too big not to see that he is clearly not in the same shape he was going into the Giro.

We all knew that before today

 

[Extinction]

Kung simply rode a perfect TT after having finished the Giro and done altitude after. He's at the maximum of his capacity. By contrast it's pretty impressive that Remco, who got sick at the Giro, hasn't done altitude since before the corsa rosa, was only 6 secs back and ahead of Van Aert.

 

[Red Rick]

Is that taking potential improvement in Küng's performance into account?

No it is now canon that Almeida and TGH would've won this and Roglic woudl've finished s.t.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

We all knew that before today

If everybody knew that, then why are so many almost demanding him going to the Tour? Going for stages makes no sense (imho) and going for GC means he won't come close enough. Both would mean no Vuelta, while going for GC would also slash his chances for the WCC.

Kung simply rode a perfect TT after having finished the Giro and done altitude after. He's at the maximum of his capacity. By contrast it's pretty impressive that Remco, who got sick at the Giro, hasn't done altitude since before the corsa rosa, was only 6 secs back and ahead of Van Aert.

So Küng didn't prepare well for the Giro?

 

[Frobisher Bay]

It doesn't work like what? Evenepoel didn't just beat Küng in the Giro, he also beat Ganna and everybody else by major differences, only 2 riders barely within 30s. Today he finishes 5 seconds ahead of Sheffield, 10 ahead of Price-Pejtersen and 18 ahead of Skjelmose. No disrespect to those riders, and surely we have to take into account this was a somewhat more technical TT, but i think the gap is a bit too big not to see that he is clearly not in the same shape he was going into the Giro.

You can't just take one example (as here Küng) and then pull conclusions. Moreover, his result in the Giro was also an outlier. For instance in Tirreno last year (13.9 km) he finished second after Ganna, 13 seconds ahead of Asgreen. Now he's 17 seconds ahead of Asgreen. Off course he doesn't have the form of the opening TT of the Giro. I doubt he will have 5 more days like that, where he annihilated and obliterated the whole field. But given the current circumstances, this is a very good result. We have to see what happens next, but again, if I were Van Aert, coming from an endless training camp and coming third here, I would worry a lot more.

Edit: That doesn't mean I think he should be going to the Tour by the way.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You can't just take one example (as here Küng) and then pull conclusions. Moreover, his result in the Giro was also an outlier. For instance in Tirreno last year (13.9 km) he finished second after Ganna, 13 seconds ahead of Asgreen. Now he's 17 seconds ahead of Asgreen. Off course he doesn't have the form of the opening TT of the Giro. I doubt he will have 5 more days like that, where he annihilated and obliterated the whole field. But given the current circumstances, this is a very good result. We have to see what happens next, but again, if I were Van Aert, coming from an endless training camp and coming third here, I would worry a lot more.

Edit: That doesn't mean I think he should be going to the Tour by the way.

I pull conclusions on the fact that the gap between both opening TT's is massive, and i don't just take Küng into account. He also beat Ganna, Thomas etc. Now he is only seconds faster than guys who have never been close to that level. Küng is also one of the most constant performers, always "very good" and completely not like Asgreen who doesn't set every TT as a goal, and has shown irregular form the past 2 years.

 

[Extinction]

If everybody knew that, then why are so many almost demanding him going to the Tour? Going for stages makes no sense (imho) and going for GC means he won't come close enough. Both would mean no Vuelta, while going for GC would also slash his chances for the WCC.


So Küng didn't prepare well for the Giro?

So you don't think with a GT come through healthy in the legs and an altitude camp after, doesn't have net advantages over getting sick and then training in the Ardennes?

 

[Rackham]

I don't see what's particularly strange about his performance here versus the Giro, i.e. he came in really, really hot into the Giro & demolished that opening ITT with what was probably 100% of his power. That was his peak form, basically.

A bit of sickness later & some loss of form = today's result. This will happen in his career & people should get used to the ups & downs where he oscillates between base form & peak form depending on the objective.

 

[Extinction]

I pull conclusions on the fact that the gap between both opening TT's is massive, and i don't just take Küng into account. He also beat Ganna, Thomas etc. Now he is only seconds faster than guys who have never been close to that level. Küng is also one of the most constant performers, always "very good" and completely not like Asgreen who doesn't set every TT as a goal, and has shown irregular form the past 2 years.

Your not considering, however, that he was faster than a fully prepared Van Aert. Whereas Kung clearly benefitted from a complete Giro in his legs and has another gear at the moment.

Let's see how Remco goes in the mountains. Will he grow or get dropped and fade? We'll find out soon enough, but not winning today against this Kung does not allow for drawing conclusions.

Expectedly it seems as if whether or not you see the glass half full or half empty is determined by whether you want him in the Tour or not.

 

[gunara]

So Suisse is today, huh? I have been so dependant on this forum, no thread = no race, or maybe I just failed to see it...

 

[kingjr]

If everybody knew that, then why are so many almost demanding him going to the Tour? Going for stages makes no sense (imho) and going for GC means he won't come close enough. Both would mean no Vuelta, while going for GC would also slash his chances for the WCC.

I don't know, but I'm sure they didn't expect him to arrive here with his Giro form.

 

[Netserk]

So Suisse is today, huh? I have been so dependant on this forum, no thread = no race, or maybe I just failed to see it...

If you have a user on ignore, you will not be able to see the threads they have opened.

 

[gunara]

If you have a user on ignore, you will not be able to see the threads they have opened.

That's awkward😋. I don't usually put people on ignore, though, but yeah, things happen...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So you don't think with a GT come through healthy in the legs and an altitude camp after, doesn't have net advantages over getting sick and then training in the Ardennes?

Of course... which further indicates that he (Evenepoel) is now not close (enough) to his Giro form and should not go to the TDF.

 

[Extinction]

Of course... which further indicates that he (Evenepoel) is now not close (enough) to his Giro form and should not go to the TDF.

Let's see how he goes over this week. It could be that he's in good shape, that he beat a specialist like Wout, who prepared exclusively to win today, but who lost by a few seconds to another specialist on home turf who is clearly flying after the Giro.

How would Vingo or Pog have placed today? I'm more interested in Remco's climbing, which evidently was not up to par in the Giro, likely due to the crashes and illness. What if he finds the climbing legs he hoped for the Giro now?

Let's say, just for argument's sake, he is only undercooked now and comes into grand form during the week and wins TdS. Would you not send him to the Tour then?

 

[Big Doopie]

So Suisse is today, huh? I have been so dependant on this forum, no thread = no race, or maybe I just fail

Let's see how he goes over this week. It could be that he's in good shape, that he beat a specialist like Wout, who prepared exclusively to win today, but who lost by a few seconds to another specialist on home turf who is clearly flying after the Giro.

How would Vingo or Pog have placed today? I'm more interested in Remco's climbing, which evidently was not up to par in the Giro, likely due to the crashes and illness. What if he finds the climbing legs he hoped for the Giro now?

Let's say, just for argument's sake, he is only undercooked now and comes into grand form during the week and wins TdS. Would you not send him to the Tour then?

no.

(and I am sure his climbing legs were just fine at the giro before covid).

 

[Extinction]

no.

(and I am sure his climbing legs were just fine at the giro before covid).

Let's Hope so then or else...

 

[hayneplane]

Far too much being placed on one race day here, admittedly that is the forum MO and a reason to be here, and feel we need to judge things only near the end of the week. 2nd best still ahead of Bisseger and Van Aert who are both huge powerhouses better suited to such a flat course as this compared to Evenepoel is a good result.

 

[Extinction]

It's the mountains that shall tell the bigger picture. We know he is TT rock solid, but what can he do uphill? And if he can do uphill in this TdS well, especially with his TTing, beating all but a stratospheric Kung, then why not send him to the Tour? That is the big question.

 

[Cookster15]

It's the mountains that shall tell the bigger picture. We know he is TT rock solid, but what can he do uphill? And if he can do uphill in this TdS well, especially with his TTing, beating all but a stratospheric Kung, then why not send him to the Tour? That is the big question.

This question was answered at the 2022 Vuelta. There were mountains in Spain weren't there? What happened on Pico Jano? As for TdS it will depend on his prep and what shape he is in. But I have no doubt after he won the Vuelta that Remco is a force in the mountains.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This question was answered at the 2022 Vuelta. There were mountains in Spain weren't there? What happened on Pico Jano? As for TdS it will depend on his prep and what shape he is in. But I have no doubt after he won the Vuelta that Remco is a force in the mountains.

I assume he means in his current post-covid/post-giro form.

Far too much being placed on one race day here, admittedly that is the forum MO and a reason to be here, and feel we need to judge things only near the end of the week. 2nd best still ahead of Bisseger and Van Aert who are both huge powerhouses better suited to such a flat course as this compared to Evenepoel is a good result.

Yes, it's only one race/day. So we'll see what the rest of the week brings. But the opening TT of the Giro was also just one day, and some already thought the Giro was over. Not to ridicule those people, but it stands to show how otherworldly his opening Giro TT was. Which today wasn't.

 

[Big Doopie]

It's the mountains that shall tell the bigger picture. We know he is TT rock solid, but what can he do uphill? And if he can do uphill in this TdS well, especially with his TTing, beating all but a stratospheric Kung, then why not send him to the Tour? That is the big question.

And the question has been answered ad nauseam.

Why sacrifice half a season of races in optimal shape in order to satisfy your personal need to see him compete in sub-optimal shape at the TDF.

It makes less and less sense each time you repeat the question.

 

[Extinction]

This question was answered at the 2022 Vuelta. There were mountains in Spain weren't there? What happened on Pico Jano? As for TdS it will depend on his prep and what shape he is in. But I have no doubt after he won the Vuelta that Remco is a force in the mountains.

I'm talking now, as in what have you done for me latetly! I know the kid can climb, but if he shows good climbing legs in TdS after what he's been through then he's good to go for the Tour.