Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

The notion that he needs to be at 150%, whatever the actual *** that means, to start the Tour is one I’ll never understand. Because expectations? Like he’s the only rider with such expectations. Absurd.

I get that he wants to hit it on form the first time he does it, and that’s fine. But making it sound like that’s the only way he can do it, because of external forces just makes him sound foolish.

Everything was set for a peak in May. Trying to peak in July without rebuilding some of your training base is gonna be unpredictable. I think it's more likely he's good in Suisse and struggles in the 3rd week of the Tour, at which point you've succesfully ruined what was left of your season.

 

[peterfin]

Everything was set for a peak in May. Trying to peak in July without rebuilding some of your training base is gonna be unpredictable. I think it's more likely he's good in Suisse and struggles in the 3rd week of the Tour, at which point you've succesfully ruined what was left of your season.

On the other hand, if he doesn't struggle in the 3rd week he may have successfully ruined his career potential.

 

[dobrien]

Seriously, what are you talking about? Hinault attacked his teammate who was in yellow. Why was he even doing that? Then Lemond joins him and the team owner told them to arrive hand in hand, told Greg to let Hinault win as he had basically won the tour. Hinault, knowing exactly what it would look like, told Lemond to stay in his wheel the entire way up the ADH. Lemond was happy enough to comply as he was concerned of being attacked by a rabid Hinault fan (remember Merckx was punched only 11 years before). He says they went up it like a training ride…then during the press conference afterwards Hinault announces that the tour is not over between them. Meanwhile, he had just ensured that LeMond could not take more time out of him on ADH as no doubt he could.

View: https://youtu.be/tsN8a4AKvhY

You do know that Godet warned Lemond to be careful because there were a lot of people who didn’t want him to win. Lemond was rightfully paranoid and did all sorts of precautions with his food and doping tests.

Consider the source. Koechli was a seriously weird dude, who also feared doing anything against Hinault or the team owner.

houtdffan is definitely trying to rewrite history here, seems to me. I vividly remember that whole mid-late 80's period and it's safe to say LeMond basically was up against it that whole period. Even in his '89 tour (post-gunshot), he finished with 3 teammates (ADR), the best being over 2 hours down and none of whom could or would do a lick of work for him. He essentially won that one on his own. As far as the 85 and 86 Tours are concerned, his greatest weakness was A) being American, and B) that he was too nice a guy; his career might have benefitted from him being a calculating, selfish *** like Hinault. Even his wife mentions he was just lacking in 'méchanceté'; Hinault on the other hand was dripping with it.

The guy was world champion in 83 as a 21 year old, won it solo with zero team help, Cyrille flipping Guimard flies halfway around the world to sign him, and on and on. If LeMond had been French and had a personality like Hinault's, and not been shot by his idiot brother-in-law he'd have won every Tour from 85 to 92; so much of his career was spent with indifferent to non-existent team support due to his being American. Go to his wiki page and check out his palmares; much of his career story is boiled down to the gunshot and rivalry with Hinault but in spite of the fact he wasn't part of the European clique he compiled an incredible record. He was a brilliant one day racer as well; if you've never seen it watch a replay of the 1989 worlds in Chambery...he single-handedly chases down Fignon with Konyshev and Kelly (!!!) in his wheel and still wins the sprint. All this growing up in California, nowhere near Europe, at a time when being an American rider was like being from the dark side of the moon.

The guy was arguably as talented a rider as nearly anyone who has ever thrown a leg over a bike; ridiculous to watch people try to rewrite history. Sorry, I realize this is off-topic, just couldn't help myself.

 

[Panda Claws]

you just have to wait till the TDS to find out

I'll be sure to remind you when he doesn't

 

[houtdffan]

houtdffan is definitely trying to rewrite history here, seems to me. I vividly remember that whole mid-late 80's period and it's safe to say LeMond basically was up against it that whole period. Even in his '89 tour (post-gunshot), he finished with 3 teammates (ADR), the best being over 2 hours down and none of whom could or would do a lick of work for him. He essentially won that one on his own. As far as the 85 and 86 Tours are concerned, his greatest weakness was A) being American, and B) that he was too nice a guy; his career might have benefitted from him being a calculating, selfish *** like Hinault. Even his wife mentions he was just lacking in 'méchanceté'; Hinault on the other hand was dripping with it.

The guy was world champion in 83 as a 21 year old, won it solo with zero team help, Cyrille flipping Guimard flies halfway around the world to sign him, and on and on. If LeMond had been French and had a personality like Hinault's, and not been shot by his idiot brother-in-law he'd have won every Tour from 85 to 92; so much of his career was spent with indifferent to non-existent team support due to his being American. Go to his wiki page and check out his palmares; much of his career story is boiled down to the gunshot and rivalry with Hinault but in spite of the fact he wasn't part of the European clique he compiled an incredible record. He was a brilliant one day racer as well; if you've never seen it watch a replay of the 1989 worlds in Chambery...he single-handedly chases down Fignon with Konyshev and Kelly (!!!) in his wheel and still wins the sprint. All this growing up in California, nowhere near Europe, at a time when being an American rider was like being from the dark side of the moon.

The guy was arguably as talented a rider as nearly anyone who has ever thrown a leg over a bike; ridiculous to watch people try to rewrite history. Sorry, I realize this is off-topic, just couldn't help myself.

The one who has rewritten history is Lemond himself.

He has perpetuated the myth that he was several minutes ahead of Hinault, when the race footage conclusively shows otherwise. His team was giving Lemond the correct time gaps of Hinault being about a minute behind

 

[Ulle97]

Why is everyone talking about Greg LeMond and Roche in the Remco thread?

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Why is everyone talking about Greg LeMond and Roche in the Remco thread?

To keep the pages ticking over to make it look likes he's popular.

 

[Mlarsen]

He's a sissy when he doesn't dare to complete the tour de france and do the jersey credit. He will definitely be able to win some stages....and who knows...maybe he will be in better shape than he thinks and will be able to ride with Jonas and Tadej...... But now we will never find out .....not until next year.
People will only respect him if he stood up and said....hey guys.....I don't know where I'm at in terms of form........but I want to ride the Tour de France to figure it out and learn from it.... The goal will be a stage win.....The classification is not my primary focus because of my preparation for the Giro this year, but I want to fight and make the WC jersey proud in France.. ... and then I will prepare myself to ride the classification for the 2024 tour.
If he did that, all cycling fans would be in seventh heaven..... Now I just think he's a sissy

 

[Rackham]

He's a sissy when he doesn't dare to complete the tour de france and do the jersey credit. He will definitely be able to win some stages....and who knows...maybe he will be in better shape than he thinks and will be able to ride with Jonas and Tadej...... But now we will never find out .....not until next year.
People will only respect him if he stood up and said....hey guys.....I don't know where I'm at in terms of form........but I want to ride the Tour de France to figure it out and learn from it.... The goal will be a stage win.....The classification is not my primary focus because of my preparation for the Giro this year, but I want to fight and make the WC jersey proud in France.. ... and then I will prepare myself to ride the classification for the 2024 tour.
If he did that, all cycling fans would be in seventh heaven..... Now I just think he's a sissy

The funny part is that's exactly (the bolded) how he entered the Vuelta last year, i.e. his pre-race comments were about aiming for a stage win & a high general classification. It wasn't "win or GTFO".

Now the mood surrounding the rider is different & they're themselves (his team, entourage etc.) fuelling public expectations he'll win the Tour when he's got the right preparation.

Is this a good idea? I don't know. Not when we see the nuclear stuff going on in July between UAE & Jumbo, i.e. a 'level above' other races for sure.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Where have your read about altitude training before Tour de Suisse? According to his Strava he’s only been training in Belgium since he got healthy from Covid. I’m not that familiar with Belgium but I don’t think they have locations suited for altitude training….

Well it's not Teide, but....

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's a sissy when he doesn't dare to complete the tour de france and do the jersey credit. He will definitely be able to win some stages....and who knows...maybe he will be in better shape than he thinks and will be able to ride with Jonas and Tadej...... But now we will never find out .....not until next year.
People will only respect him if he stood up and said....hey guys.....I don't know where I'm at in terms of form........but I want to ride the Tour de France to figure it out and learn from it.... The goal will be a stage win.....The classification is not my primary focus because of my preparation for the Giro this year, but I want to fight and make the WC jersey proud in France.. ... and then I will prepare myself to ride the classification for the 2024 tour.
If he did that, all cycling fans would be in seventh heaven..... Now I just think he's a sissy

Oh no! Mlarsen thinks he's a sissy.
EMERGENCY MEETING!

 

[red_flanders]

Everything was set for a peak in May. Trying to peak in July without rebuilding some of your training base is gonna be unpredictable. I think it's more likely he's good in Suisse and struggles in the 3rd week of the Tour, at which point you've succesfully ruined what was left of your season.

I get it, it’s just the way they talk about it. It’s all just too precious.

 

[Big Doopie]

Everything was set for a peak in May. Trying to peak in July without rebuilding some of your training base is gonna be unpredictable. I think it's more likely he's good in Suisse and struggles in the 3rd week of the Tour, at which point you've succesfully ruined what was left of your season.

Exactly right.

No idea why a pro would basically sacrifice the entire rest of the season (with many obtainable objectives) to simply ride the tour not optimally prepared and at a disadvantage not only to riders like Vingo and Pog, but Hindley, etc…

 

[Big Doopie]

Tao, Carlos and Martinez all expected to sign elsewhere. Remco’s Ineos mountain train disappearing fast…

 

[Extinction]

houtdffan is definitely trying to rewrite history here, seems to me. I vividly remember that whole mid-late 80's period and it's safe to say LeMond basically was up against it that whole period. Even in his '89 tour (post-gunshot), he finished with 3 teammates (ADR), the best being over 2 hours down and none of whom could or would do a lick of work for him. He essentially won that one on his own. As far as the 85 and 86 Tours are concerned, his greatest weakness was A) being American, and B) that he was too nice a guy; his career might have benefitted from him being a calculating, selfish *** like Hinault. Even his wife mentions he was just lacking in 'méchanceté'; Hinault on the other hand was dripping with it.

The guy was world champion in 83 as a 21 year old, won it solo with zero team help, Cyrille flipping Guimard flies halfway around the world to sign him, and on and on. If LeMond had been French and had a personality like Hinault's, and not been shot by his idiot brother-in-law he'd have won every Tour from 85 to 92; so much of his career was spent with indifferent to non-existent team support due to his being American. Go to his wiki page and check out his palmares; much of his career story is boiled down to the gunshot and rivalry with Hinault but in spite of the fact he wasn't part of the European clique he compiled an incredible record. He was a brilliant one day racer as well; if you've never seen it watch a replay of the 1989 worlds in Chambery...he single-handedly chases down Fignon with Konyshev and Kelly (!!!) in his wheel and still wins the sprint. All this growing up in California, nowhere near Europe, at a time when being an American rider was like being from the dark side of the moon.

The guy was arguably as talented a rider as nearly anyone who has ever thrown a leg over a bike; ridiculous to watch people try to rewrite history. Sorry, I realize this is off-topic, just couldn't help myself.

The big question is if Lemond were riding today, as an American, would he be crushing it? How would Lemond be on a Jumbo, an Ineos an UAE today?

 

[Extinction]

Everything was set for a peak in May. Trying to peak in July without rebuilding some of your training base is gonna be unpredictable. I think it's more likely he's good in Suisse and struggles in the 3rd week of the Tour, at which point you've succesfully ruined what was left of your season.

Yes, but unpredictable was also crashing twice on one stage and getting Covid at the Giro. He would not ruin the rest of his season by going to the Tour, but lay the foundations for a career.

 

[Extinction]

It seems the Belgians need him to win practically everything he starts alla Merckx, but this isn't possible or even realistic in today's cycling. The kid needs to go into something with doubt, discover, fail or surprise to grow professionally. If the pressure Belgium has placed on his shoulders after a good TdS is too great to start the Tour, then Belgium shall ruin him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Aw, all he needed was a good math teacher to tell him that you can't be above 100% of your level, and then he might have gone to the Tour

This is incorrect. It is possible for riders to improve, so 150% of your current or previous best level, is actually possible. I'm quite sure if i were to prepare for the Tour going from my current level or even my previous best ever level, i could start at 300% or something.

When Evenepoel is saying he wants to be 150% for the Tour, he's basically saying "b-b-b baby you ain't seen nothin' yet - Here's something that you never gonna forget".

Here is a video of Remco trying to explain it: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cia_v4vxfE
EDIT: actually, it could be Quinn Simmons.

 

[Scarponi]

Why is everyone talking about Greg LeMond and Roche in the Remco thread?

Because they talk about Remco in every other thread on this forum so this thread is the safe place of non Remco chat

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Regarding his (drop of) form compared to the Giro:
Giro opening TT flat part, Evenepoel took 37 seconds on Küng over 16.5km.
Tour de Suisse flat opening TT, Küng takes 6 seconds on Evenepoel over 13km.

 

[kingjr]

Is that taking potential improvement in Küng's performance into account?

 

[Frobisher Bay]

Regarding his (drop of) form compared to the Giro:
Giro opening TT flat part, Evenepoel took 37 seconds on Küng over 16.5km.
Tour de Suisse flat opening TT, Küng takes 6 seconds on Evenepoel over 13km.

You know it doesn't work like that. Küng took 3 seconds on Vine in the Giro opening TT and now 27. All in all a good result today. If I were Van Aert I would worry a lot more.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Why is he wasting his time here? He should be at an training camp to prepare le tour .

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You know it doesn't work like that. Küng took 3 seconds on Vine in the Giro opening TT and now 27. All in all a good result today. If I were Van Aert I would worry a lot more.

It doesn't work like what? Evenepoel didn't just beat Küng in the Giro, he also beat Ganna and everybody else by major differences, only 2 riders barely within 30s. Today he finishes 5 seconds ahead of Sheffield, 10 ahead of Price-Pejtersen and 18 ahead of Skjelmose. No disrespect to those riders, and surely we have to take into account this was a somewhat more technical TT, but i think the gap is a bit too big not to see that he is clearly not in the same shape he was going into the Giro.

 

[Ulle97]

Well done Remco.
A very good start. Putting time into all potential GC candidates.

No ill-effects of Covid visible from this result. Of course, Tuesday will tell us more but I'm glad he's back on the bike and back racing again at a top level again.