Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

Page 909 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Should we change the thread title?


  • Total voters
    108
At the end of their career? I think Remco will have a palmares closer to Merckx than Dumoulin
I don't know about that, Merckx's palmares...it's just crazy. But my point not about palmares, it's that they aren't similar riders in terms of skillset. Not aimed at you at all, but someone tell me when Dumoulin won a monument in a long breakaway? Or a dozen other races like yesterday?

Dumoulin was a grinder, a big guy with a lot of power and endurance. Not explosive. Not a classics guy. Not a one-day rider. Not small.

Sure. They both TT well and both do well in GT's. So do dozens of other riders in the last 20 years.
 
I don't know about that, Merckx's palmares...it's just crazy. But my point not about palmares, it's that they aren't similar riders in terms of skillset. Not aimed at you at all, but someone tell me when Dumoulin won a monument in a long breakaway? Or a dozen other races like yesterday?

Dumoulin was a grinder, a big guy with a lot of power and endurance. Not explosive. Not a classics guy. Not a one-day rider. Not small.

Sure. They both TT well and both do well in GT's. So do dozens of other riders in the last 20 years.
Remco evenepoel also have a similar climbing style like Dumoulin had. In terms of Grand Tours, i think Remco has and will have a very similar style of racing with the style of racing that dumoulin had.

They are similar on that, but Remco has the potential to be better than dumoulin with a better palmares in the end of his career.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sam6
Remco evenepoel also have a similar climbing style like Dumoulin had. In terms of Grand Tours, i think Remco has and will have a very similar style of racing with the style of racing that dumoulin had.

They are similar on that, but Remco has the potential to be better than dumoulin with a better palmares in the end of his career.
Yeah, never really seen Dumoulin climb like this. It's an odd take.
 
Yeah, never really seen Dumoulin climb like this. It's an odd take.
What's the problem in comparing Remco with Dumoulin in some characteristics? I'm not diminishing Remco evenepoel or mocking him, it's the opposite. Besides that, Dumoulin was a great rider, i don't see the problem with the comparation in some aspects.
I already praised Remco a lot.

I was talking about his style on Grand tours, the climbing style of Remco, specially in long climbs is very similar with Dumoulin's style, and it's okay. Remco also likes to go in a constant pace like Dumoulin, we saw that many times in the vuelta 2022 on pico jano (and it worked, he won the vuelta 2022) , or xorret de cati vuelta 2023.

In the video you showed, we see a good final mountain sprint by Remco evenepoel, there's nothing that contradicts what i said. In terms of sprint i think Remco is more explosive than Dumoulin was.
 
In a flat sprint in Liege, Pogacar would probably defeat Evenepoel. But I don't think Pogacar and Evenepoel (both in topshape) could destroy each other in the Liege-climbs. Probably also giving the opportunity to less strong riders to come back in the final (Pogacar and Evenepoel controling each other) and jump away in the final km or outsprint Pogacar and Evenepoel.

What I think is that if Evenepoel or Pogacar (in topshape) succeed to attack and ride single during the last 20, 30 or 40 km, no one would be able to come back. Not Roglic, Vingegaard, Van Aert etc. Especially when the opponents have been beaten apart. Maybe a coalition of half a Visma-, Emirates-(of course not chasing Pogacar), Astana- or Movistar- team could.
If Remco and/or Pogi attack it will be to kill the rest. Everybody else will be floundering, or the attack shall be pointless.
 
Yeah, never really seen Dumoulin climb like this. It's an odd take.

*He would try to go with the best and fail, then rely on his TT.
I agree that Remco and Dumoulin don’t belong in the same conversation in classics - should be obvious - but Dumoulin was extremely good in GTs before he crashed in 2019. Froomedog wasn’t the only casualty of spring 2019. He looked pretty good thrashing Quintana, Nibali, and prime Landa here.

Edit. And I agree with @Froome that they do ride similarly in GTs so far. Best at ITTs, occasionally get dropped on climbs, capable of coming back and dropping the hammer, not as reliable as the pure GT riders like Vinge, Contador, etc. Again, so far in the case of Remco.
 
What's the problem in comparing Remco with Dumoulin in some characteristics? I'm not diminishing Remco evenepoel or mocking him, it's the opposite. Besides that, Dumoulin was a great rider, i don't see the problem with the comparation in some aspects.
I already praised Remco a lot.

I was talking about his style on Grand tours, the climbing style of Remco, specially in long climbs is very similar with Dumoulin's style, and it's okay. Remco also likes to go in a constant pace like Dumoulin, we saw that many times in the vuelta 2022 on pico jano (and it worked, he won the vuelta 2022) , or xorret de cati vuelta 2023.

In the video you showed, we see a good final mountain sprint by Remco evenepoel, there's nothing that contradicts what i said. In terms of sprint i think Remco is more explosive than Dumoulin was.
I don't think you're mocking him, not that I'd care if you were. I just find them to be vastly different riders, despite having some superficial similarities. I don't find their climbing styles similar either, TBH.

I'm not here to defend anyone, but I do like analysis of riders to be more accurate than what was suggested by the other guy/gal to whom I was responding. Cheers.
 
I agree that Remco and Dumoulin don’t belong in the same conversation in classics - should be obvious - but Dumoulin was extremely good in GTs before he crashed in 2019. Froomedog wasn’t the only casualty of spring 2019. He looked pretty good thrashing Quintana, Nibali, and prime Landa here.

Edit. And I agree with @Froome that they do ride similarly in GTs so far. Best at ITTs, occasionally get dropped on climbs, capable of coming back and dropping the hammer, not as reliable as the pure GT riders like Vinge, Contador, etc. Again, so far in the case of Remco.
I appreciate that you got the one-day part of my point. And to be fair, I never said or suggested Dumoulin wasn't good in GT's, obviously he was. That's the style of riding where he was good.

In addition to their wildly different characteristics on most terrain, I don't find their climbing styles similar. Remco is much more explosive, has much more of an attacking mentality, is much stronger on steep climbs, and is much better on short climbs. Dumoulin was a rider who could ride a high tempo for a long time. Another thing Remco has at times struggled with (in terms of long cols).

They seem like wildly different riders to me. Frame, mentality, skillset, even climbing style. They both TT'd very well. So do a lot of riders.

What's the problem in comparing Remco with Dumoulin in some characteristics? I'm not diminishing Remco evenepoel or mocking him, it's the opposite. Besides that, Dumoulin was a great rider, i don't see the problem with the comparation in some aspects.
I already praised Remco a lot.

I was talking about his style on Grand tours, the climbing style of Remco, specially in long climbs is very similar with Dumoulin's style, and it's okay. Remco also likes to go in a constant pace like Dumoulin, we saw that many times in the vuelta 2022 on pico jano (and it worked, he won the vuelta 2022) , or xorret de cati vuelta 2023.

In the video you showed, we see a good final mountain sprint by Remco evenepoel, there's nothing that contradicts what i said. In terms of sprint i think Remco is more explosive than Dumoulin was.
My more detailed take above.
 
I don't think you're mocking him, not that I'd care if you were. I just find them to be vastly different riders, despite having some superficial similarities. I don't find their climbing styles similar either, TBH.

I'm not here to defend anyone, but I do like analysis of riders to be more accurate than what was suggested by the other guy/gal to whom I was responding. Cheers.
Well, that's not entirely accurate. Evenepoel at heart is a tempo rider. He had to work hard to be as explosive as he is now. It's the single biggest improvement he made in his development. The guy was 2nd in a 50km+ WCC ITT when he was 19 years old. Relatively speaking, he only made minor advancements in that regard. But it doesn't change the fact that he is a killer at high tempo endurance at his core. This was actually already apparent when he was a footballer, where he was not explosive either. I have in the past also compared him to Cancellara, with the added benefit that he is a lot smaller, hence lighter, and thus also should be a great tempo climber

Evenepoel in the '22 Vuelta didn't attack on Pico Jano or Les Praeres. He simply rode the others off his wheel. Same in CSS'22 when he dropped Yates (and the rest) or in Norway when he dropped Vine, Johannessen and Plapp. Same thing when he got dropped on climbs, he usually needs to find his rhythm and then he can tempo his (usually too fat) ass up the climb. That's basically also what Dumoulin intended to do. Drop the others by upping the pace, or in case he was dropped himself, tempo his way up the climb in order to minimize losses.

I agree that he is more punchy than Dumoulin ever was, but he had to invest a lot of time and effort into it, it didn't come naturally. Evenepoel is also a much better classics rider than Dumoulin was, because he has a much bigger engine than Dumoulin had, relative to his size. Of Tom's 22 wins, 15 were ITT's, 2 prologues and 2 GC's. That leaves us with a few stages and 0 one day races. Longest race Dumoulin ever won, was 185km. That's the biggest difference between the two.
 
Last edited by a moderator: