Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Again the same, predictable story. Evenepoel winning a race, then his main opponents happen to be out of shape. Or did not participate. Evenepoel not winning (against his strongest opponents), then he was knocked on his merits. Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

I am not at all claiming that Evenepoel is the best (GT) rider or that he is sometimes beaten by a stronger rider at that moment. But that applies just as well to Pogacar, Vingegaard or Roglic.
When Remco loses a race, then the argument is he's not prepared, having a bad day, was out of shape....
Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.
 
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Pogi would have won both of those LBL. Remco may have won 2020 Lombardia I admit, but that was in a weak standard. Not like the field in Pogi's Lombardia wins
Pogacar would highly likely not have won last years LBL, and not because he wouldn't be able to beat Evenepoel, but because his form was already fading as was evident in Amstel. For 3 out of his 5 monument wins, Pogacar had to win the sprint vs guys like Mas, Masnada and Gaudu. Yet somehow you think Evenepoel is overrated and wouldn't stand a chance.

When Remco loses a race, then the argument is he's not prepared, having a bad day, was out of shape....
Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.
Ignoring the facts that are staring you in the face, is what is becoming increasingly ridiculous. You think starting a GT a week after winning the WCC ITT on a long flat course against 85kg guys, can be done on ideal climbing weight? Do you really? You can't prepare for such two completely different goals in the same timeframe without making concessions concerning at least one of those goals.
You think getting covid and quitting when wearing pink is, is an excuse? You think starting your first GT as the first race after a horrible crash that took months in recovery, is something to dismiss? Maybe go and ask some other riders who had an injury like that about how long it takes to bounce back if you think so.
Evenepoel has faced Ganna in 6 championship TT's, including the OG TT. Would it surprise you if i told you that ONLY in 2021, the year of his comeback, was Ganna able to beat him? The so called best TT'er of the past 5 years, has only beaten Evenepoel in 2021 in major championships (WCC, ECC, OG). In 2019, Evenepoel beat Ganna at the WCC and the ECC. In 2022 he beat him at the WCC, and he did again in 2023. Do you think that is a coincidence?
You think crashing during a monument has no impact on the ability to compete in that race?

Please back up your statements with some examples so we can discuss concrete instances instead of this vague BS. Not every argument or reason is an excuse. When he gets dropped by Vlasov while weighing 68kg, that's not an excuse. He should get his weight under control, nobody's fault but his own. But it is an explanation and it shows he has plenty of room for improvement once he addresses the elephant in the room. Pun intended.
 
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Pogacar would highly likely not have won last years LBL, and not because he wouldn't be able to beat Evenepoel, but because his form was already fading as was evident in Amstel. For 3 out of his 5 monument wins, Pogacar had to win the sprint vs guys like Mas, Masnada and Gaudu. Yet somehow you think Evenepoel is overrated and wouldn't stand a chance.


Ignoring the facts that are staring you in the face, is what is becoming increasingly ridiculous. You think starting a GT a week after winning the WCC ITT on a long flat course against 85kg guys, can be done on ideal climbing weight? Do you really? You can't prepare for such two completely different goals in the same timeframe without making concessions concerning at least one of those goals.
You think getting covid and quitting when wearing pink is, is an excuse? You think starting your first GT as the first race after a horrible crash that took months in recovery, is something to dismiss? Maybe go and ask some other riders who had an injury like that about how long it takes to bounce back if you think so.
Evenepoel has faced Ganna in 6 championship TT's, including the OG TT. Would it surprise you if i told you that ONLY in 2021, the year of his comeback, was Ganna able to beat him? The so called best TT'er of the past 5 years, has only beaten Evenepoel in 2021 in major championships (WCC, ECC, OG). In 2019, Evenepoel beat Ganna at the WCC and the ECC. In 2022 he beat him at the WCC, and he did again in 2023. Do you think that is a coincidence?
You think crashing during a monument has no impact on the ability to compete in that race?

Please back up your statements with some examples so we can discuss concrete instances instead of this vague BS. Not every argument or reason is an excuse. When he gets dropped by Vlasov while weighing 68kg, that's not an excuse. He should get his weight under control, nobody's fault but his own. But it is an explanation and it shows he has plenty of room for improvement once he addresses the elephant in the room. Pun intended.
Since you are ignoring facts, which don't fit your Remco biased world view, discussing with you is pointless.
 
Dumoulin was a top rider, he won the Giro, was second in the Tour, was world TT champion, was 2nd in 2 Olympic TTs. He could have won more one day races had he wanted to and been willing to bunny-bush semi-pro opposition like Remco did today. Perhaps Remco is a slightly better rider, but he is what Dumoulin would have been without the mental health problems and with a longer peak. And no, they are not an exact match but no 2 riders are. But of all the recent riders I can think of in terms of type of rider and ability Dumoulin is closest to Remco. Physiologically Evenepoel and Dumoulin were very similar, however Remco has more mental toughness and more willingness to win a wider array of races, whereas Dumoulin was focused on a smaller amount of races. However physiologically they are very similar riders both in terms of ability and type of rider

In fact, I suspect had a top form Dumoulin from 2018 been in Remco's LBL wins then he would have won, since Remco is arrogant and wouldn't be able to drop him and then Dumoulin would outsprint him since Dumoulin would have the race smarts to sit on his wheel and Remco the arrogance to accept this. However, there was noone of his level in those races. Last year his closest rivals where Pidcock and Buitrago and the year before Quinten Hermans was 2nd?? A top form Dumoulin would have won both those races instead of Remco
If one thinks Remco is a “slightly better rider tha Dumoulin” one is delusional, agenda driven, clueless about cycling, or trolling.

He jus annihilated the pro peloton in a warmup race. Untouchable. This is the reaction? FFS.
 
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If one thinks Remco is a “slightly better rider tha Dumoulin” one is delusional, agenda driven, clueless about cycling, or trolling.

He jus annihilated the pro peloton in a warmup race. Untouchable. This is the reaction? FFS.
Remco is the better rider but they are the same physiologically. Mostly as he is mentally tougher. Plus Remco will have a much longer peak. But Dumoulin is the rider most similar to Remco

Also, Dumoulin was actually a really top rider at his best!! Don't dis Dumoulin!
 
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Pogacar would highly likely not have won last years LBL, and not because he wouldn't be able to beat Evenepoel, but because his form was already fading as was evident in Amstel. For 3 out of his 5 monument wins, Pogacar had to win the sprint vs guys like Mas, Masnada and Gaudu. Yet somehow you think Evenepoel is overrated and wouldn't stand a chance.
Pogi would have won. Yes, his form was fading but he also won Amstel with an equally impressive solo the week before, and in that race, he had a flat for ages and for quite a while was riding with a puncture and yet he still won solo after. The time gaps are slightly bigger because Liege is harder and the riders behind were also solo in Amstel but in a group in Liege so were looking at each other, not to mention the effects of Pogi's puncture. But still, Pogi won by 38s and Remco 1m6s, fairly comparable. Then in Fleche he didn't really exert himself but still won. So Pogi was still in good form. Pogi wouldn't have matched Evenepoel in a TT on the Liege course, but he would have been able to hold his wheel fairly comfortably and outsprint him

In the Liege he won, he outsprinted Alaphillippe. He probably could have been able to drop them if he had attacked himself but he trusted his sprint instead. Masnada was only with him at Lombardia because he descended like a lunatic and Pogi took it easy. Mas was in the best form of his career and Pogi was fading big time then, yet he never looked like challenging him in the sprint. Also, sometimes if you are with someone you know you can outsprint, there is no need to try and drop them. Had Pogi not crashed last year he would have won a 2 up sprint with Evenepoel. Yes Evenepoel may have been the stronger rider, but he was not strong enough to drop Pogi and Pogi has a stronger sprint

This whole Pogi was fading (very slightly) so Remco would have won is just nonsense designed to convince yourself that the correct winner won and make you feel better about the injustice of Pogi's crash
 
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Pogi would have won. Yes, his form was fading but he also won Amstel with an equally impressive solo the week before, and in that race, he had a flat for ages and for quite a while was riding with a puncture and yet he still won solo after. The time gaps are slightly bigger because Liege is harder and the riders behind were also solo in Amstel but in a group in Liege so were looking at each other, not to mention the effects of Pogi's puncture. But still, Pogi won by 38s and Remco 1m6s, fairly comparable. Then in Fleche he didn't really exert himself but still won. So Pogi was still in good form. Pogi wouldn't have matched Evenepoel in a TT on the Liege course, but he would have been able to hold his wheel fairly comfortably and outsprint him

In the Liege he won, he outsprinted Alaphillippe. He probably could have been able to drop them if he had attacked himself but he trusted his sprint instead. Masnada was only with him at Lombardia because he descended like a lunatic and Pogi took it easy. Mas was in the best form of his career and Pogi was fading big time then, yet he never looked like challenging him in the sprint. Also, sometimes if you are with someone you know you can outsprint, there is no need to try and drop them. Had Pogi not crashed last year he would have won a 2 up sprint with Evenepoel. Yes Evenepoel may have been the stronger rider, but he was not strong enough to drop Pogi and Pogi has a stronger sprint

This whole Pogi was fading (very slightly) so Remco would have won is just nonsense designed to convince yourself that the correct winner won and make you feel better about the injustice of Pogi's crash
Thanks for a relatively well thought through post. Yes, Pogacar is faster in a sprint. And yes, when you know you are faster, you also know you don't have to drop others. But going to the line with a small group, including riders like Alaphilippe, Roglic, Hirschi, Valverde... (I'm talking about his 2 LBL finishes), you don't do that because you are sure to beat them in the sprint, you are doing that because you (thought you) weren't able to drop them. Because even when you might be the fastest, sprinting in a small bunch can go wrong (ask Van Aert), especially against riders who are arguably about as fast as you are.

The fact that a rider like Masnada was able to bridge the gap in the first place, shows that he was close enough to do it to begin with.

Regarding Amstel, i get the impression you either did not watch the race completely or forgot what happened? Healy was closing the gap down fast, until the race director decided to give Pogacar a hand. Had that not happened, i find it hard to believe Healy would not have bridged. Obviously, Pogacar would still have won the sprint, but it did show Pogacar was losing form a week before Liège. Also forgive me for stating that Evenepoel is a cut above Healy when it comes to these types of efforts. Which again brings us to Liège and whether he would have won in '23. Obviously we will never know, but here is my opinion on that. He would have been able to stay with Evenepoel after his attack, yes. I'm quite sure. But he would not have won, and here's why: Because unlike some other rivals, Pogacar is not a coward but a racer, and would have committed fully to the break, doing equal turns with Evenepoel. That in combination of what we saw a week earlier in Amstel, would have gassed him out. Not only does Evenepoel ride faster in a break than anybody else, he also is very small and aero, which means whoever is in his wheel still needs to push big watts, while when Evenepoel is in the other rider's wheel, he saves a lot of energy.

Also, if you acknowledge the fact that Evenepoel is able to beat basically anyone, except for (according to you) Pogacar, why would you be calling him overrated? Not seeing a lot of people here saying he is a better rider than Pogacar, so why the attitude?
 
Evenepoel was very eager to win that first race. So he is (too early) in shape. But I hope he will scale back a bit after Algarve or Paris-Nice. Otherwise it could be that he comes up short against Pogacar in Liège.
It seems that nowadays you can´t be too early in shape. Last year Vignegaard started his season with 3 stage wins and gc at Gran Camino, Pogačar with a victory in Jaen paraiso, 3 stage wins and gc in Andalucia, Roglič with some stages and gc in Tirenno. Being early in shape is rather a good sign for the rest of the year.
 
Remco is the better rider but they are the same physiologically. Mostly as he is mentally tougher. Plus Remco will have a much longer peak. But Dumoulin is the rider most similar to Remco

Also, Dumoulin was actually a really top rider at his best!! Don't dis Dumoulin!
Ridiculous statement. No one is dissing Dumoulin. Your comparison is bizarre.

Why not just celebrate a fantastic rider going on another incredible escapade early in the season instead of trying to compare him to anyone else. There's no one else like him, certainly not Dumoulin.
 
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What wins has Remco got against Pogi in long races? The world champs in Aus but Pogi wasn't really in form then and there were idiotic tactics (marking Remco with Tratnik and then not chasing down that group??) at fault too. Remco is not explosive enough to drop Pogi so when Pogi is on form then Remco is not beating him. I would say Pogi is pretty much unbeatable in Liege when he is on top form. I think he would have won in 2020 had Alaphillippe not swerved in front of him, and this was early Pogi not like he is now who was fatigued because of the Tour. He won in 2021. In 2022 he missed because family stuff and 2023 he broke his arm. Out of all the races you would say Liege suits him best so it's very hard to beat him there. Plus Pogi will be on good form as is last race before the Giro. Pogi will win LBL this year unless he breaks his arm again

Also, there is no non-time-trial course in which top-form Remco would beat top-form Pogi. Remco hasn't got the explosiveness to drop him without idiotic tactics allowing him up the road

This argument of Pogačar was not in shape in 2022 WCRR is quite difficult to understand. He won GP Montreal two weeks before, got 6th in the WCTT one week before, got 2nd while jet lagged in the following week at Emilia and then won Tre Valli Varesine and IL Lombardia. Sure, he might not have been in his absolute peak but he was definitely in shape for the WCRR unless he magically lost his form that weekend.

It also seems that you are a little bit too confident in Pogačar's abilities in LBL. If there is one race where Pogačar is 'unbeatable' its IL Lombardia not Liège has his record shows and after Remco's impressive solo last year I am convinced he would have need to at least sprint against Remco, a rider that now has a proper sprint in his legs to make him competitive in that scenario too. My guess is that if nothing out of the ordinary happens (fingers crossed) we will watch that sprint in LBL 2024.

I see that you also mention Remco's inability to drop Colbrelli in the ECRR has an argument in one of your posts. The thing is that climb was not really steep and Colbrelli was in the shape of his life during that late season (his debut Roubaix win should be enough proof) and 2021 was clearly not Remco's best season because he had to recover from his broken leg the year before. Yet, he was still good enough to drop an out of shape Pogačar that actually tried to follow him, in route for silver...
 
Jeez; I guess MvP, Van Aert, Pidcock's cyclocross and championships don't count as wins? How about Mads Peterson, Carapaz....racing against aggressive fields? Oh....Remco didn't race those so they don't count? C'mon fans....
Did you quote the wrong post?
Because I have no idea what these guys are doing in a reply to my post about comparing Remco and Dumoulin and what you are trying to say with this?
 
When Re
When Remco loses a race, then the argument is he's not prepared, having a bad day, was out of shape....
Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.
When Remco gets beaten, it's because he was defeated by better riders at the time. Period. Now, we can consider the various factors that may have more or less contributed to the outcomes, just as we could with any big rider; but that won't change them.

Having said that, riders like Roglic, Pogacar and, yes, Evenepoel, have each gone through serious trials and thus have, as far as I know, not faced off on equally good standing at a major appointment. Only Vingegaard seems to have had things go pretty much without a major glitch since he smashed the Tours.

If Remco shows up at the Tour in top shape and fails to qualify as a real contender against those three, then we will have to concede his battle to win the Tour is decidedly uphill. No excludes.

Yet, until this happens -all of it- a flawless build-up and top shape at the start, and he still loses big time on a mountain stage, I'm not writing him off.
 
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Remco fanboys are stating Remco could win one day races against MvdP and Poggi.
If Remco could train specially for that race and peaking, while MvdP and Poggi isn't at their peaks.
MvdP and Poggi wins big one day races even though they aren't at their peak level
 
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I say bring it on, because any real fan of the sport wants to see the top racers in peak form slugging it out amongst themselves, and may the best man win. I for one, was most disappointed we didn't get to see a real match between them in the last two Lieges. So, hopfully we finally do this year.

I must, however, beg to differ with your opinion that Remco isn't explosive. He is, just not likely to the degree of Pogacar. However, Remco, as the Worlds ITT champ, has incredible stamina and resistence to fatigue and he can make searing attacks. Thus I hardly think the guy doesn't stand a chance against Pogi at Liege. At any rate, I'm looking forward to the competition.
In a flat sprint in Liege, Pogacar would probably defeat Evenepoel. But I don't think Pogacar and Evenepoel (both in topshape) could destroy each other in the Liege-climbs. Probably also giving the opportunity to less strong riders to come back in the final (Pogacar and Evenepoel controling each other) and jump away in the final km or outsprint Pogacar and Evenepoel.

What I think is that if Evenepoel or Pogacar (in topshape) succeed to attack and ride single during the last 20, 30 or 40 km, no one would be able to come back. Not Roglic, Vingegaard, Van Aert etc. Especially when the opponents have been beaten apart. Maybe a coalition of half a Visma-, Emirates-(of course not chasing Pogacar), Astana- or Movistar- team could.
 
It seems that nowadays you can´t be too early in shape. Last year Vignegaard started his season with 3 stage wins and gc at Gran Camino, Pogačar with a victory in Jaen paraiso, 3 stage wins and gc in Andalucia, Roglič with some stages and gc in Tirenno. Being early in shape is rather a good sign for the rest of the year.
 
On the condition that you build in peace and quiet
Remco fanboys are stating Remco could win one day races against MvdP and Poggi.
If Remco could train specially for that race and peaking, while MvdP and Poggi isn't at their peaks.
MvdP and Poggi wins big one day races even though they aren't at their peak level
Really ? Why didn't they won 6 or 7 monuments..... not being in topshape ?