Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[jmdirt]

Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic, Pidcock, Philipsen, Ganna, A. Yates, De Lie, Hirschi, Skjelmose, Almeida, Kooij, Jakobsen, Ayuso, Rodriguez, Laporte, Kuss, Vlasov combined victories this season: 0.
Evenepoel victories this season: 1.

We are not the same.

MvdP just won a world title.

 

[shadowrider]

These top riders don't need to be in peak shape to win these races in the beginning of the season, because they're above the others.

Evenepoel was very eager to win that first race. So he is (too early) in shape. But I hope he will scale back a bit after Algarve or Paris-Nice. Otherwise it could be that he comes up short against Pogacar in Liège. The same after Liege. Better to start the Tour at 98 or 99 % and become stronger the second and third week. As we have seen by Van Aert in 21 and 22. But it was not a conscious choice at the time. An appendectomy and knee problems forced Van Aert to start the Tour 21 and 22, albeit still in very good basic condition, with a small training "gap". But the extra rest helped Van Aert to perform from the second week, until the end of the Tour. Evenepoel should start the same way, at 99 %. To be at his best the second half of the Tour. Without a bad day. Allowing him to end on the podium (not for the win, he will lose too much in the first days and on gravel for that). But starting at 100 % he will start well, but weaken in the second half. Not allowing him a podium or even a top 10.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I'm more and more a fan of remco, but remco fans using classica San sebasstian as an example of remco strenght in one day races vs pogacar are too funny.

 

[shadowrider]

What wins has Remco got against Pogi in long races? The world champs in Aus but Pogi wasn't really in form then and there were idiotic tactics (marking Remco with Tratnik and then not chasing down that group??) at fault too. Remco is not explosive enough to drop Pogi so when Pogi is on form then Remco is not beating him. I would say Pogi is pretty much unbeatable in Liege when he is on top form. I think he would have won in 2020 had Alaphillippe not swerved in front of him, and this was early Pogi not like he is now who was fatigued because of the Tour. He won in 2021. In 2022 he missed because family stuff and 2023 he broke his arm. Out of all the races you would say Liege suits him best so it's very hard to beat him there. Plus Pogi will be on good form as is last race before the Giro. Pogi will win LBL this year unless he breaks his arm again

Also, there is no non-time-trial course in which top-form Remco would beat top-form Pogi. Remco hasn't got the explosiveness to drop him without idiotic tactics allowing him up the road

Again the same, predictable story. Evenepoel winning a race, then his main opponents happen to be out of shape. Or did not participate. Evenepoel not winning (against his strongest opponents), then he was knocked on his merits. Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

I am not at all claiming that Evenepoel is the best (GT) rider or that he is sometimes beaten by a stronger rider at that moment. But that applies just as well to Pogacar, Vingegaard or Roglic.

 

[scribers]

Robbie mcewen thinks remco is only at 90% right now.

(Waits to see takes on percentage meanings)

 

[sam6]

You are 100% correct and that is proven by Dumoulins long list of victories in one day races, which is very equal to Remcos palmares.

Dumoulin was a top rider, he won the Giro, was second in the Tour, was world TT champion, was 2nd in 2 Olympic TTs. He could have won more one day races had he wanted to and been willing to bunny-bush semi-pro opposition like Remco did today. Perhaps Remco is a slightly better rider, but he is what Dumoulin would have been without the mental health problems and with a longer peak. And no, they are not an exact match but no 2 riders are. But of all the recent riders I can think of in terms of type of rider and ability Dumoulin is closest to Remco. Physiologically Evenepoel and Dumoulin were very similar, however Remco has more mental toughness and more willingness to win a wider array of races, whereas Dumoulin was focused on a smaller amount of races. However physiologically they are very similar riders both in terms of ability and type of rider

In fact, I suspect had a top form Dumoulin from 2018 been in Remco's LBL wins then he would have won, since Remco is arrogant and wouldn't be able to drop him and then Dumoulin would outsprint him since Dumoulin would have the race smarts to sit on his wheel and Remco the arrogance to accept this. However, there was noone of his level in those races. Last year his closest rivals where Pidcock and Buitrago and the year before Quinten Hermans was 2nd?? A top form Dumoulin would have won both those races instead of Remco

 

[sam6]

Remco has a LBL, CSS, and a WRR vs Pog. Pog has 2 Lombardias vs Evenepoel

They both crashed in a race they lost (Pog in LBL, Remco in Lombardia)

Pogi would have won both of those LBL. Remco may have won 2020 Lombardia I admit, but that was in a weak standard. Not like the field in Pogi's Lombardia wins

 

[sam6]

Is 6 your age or the amount of ‘Pogi’ posters on your wall?

You are the childish one. I am just stating the Remco is overrated and a very limited rider at the top level. When they learn to not let him get away then he will prove far more ineffective. I like Pogi as a rider yes. However, I do understand the brilliance of his rivals like Vingegaard and van der Poel and can talk objectively about them and their relative strengths and weaknesses. However, Remco is not a rival to Pogi. Remco is a better TT but there is no road race profile where Remco could beat an in-form Pogi. Remco is a top rider but he will always be one step below Elite

 

[sam6]

Today, yes Remco won by 2 minutes. It was a dominant win. However, it would only take one guy being able to hang onto his wheel for him to lose this race. That is his limitation as he is not explosive enough to drop other top riders. Even had Hirschi been on 2020 form, or close to that, then he would have won. The 2 minutes is also inflated a lot because they all knew he was going to win. Look for example at the 2021 European championships won by Sonny Colbrelli. Colbrelli was a good rider, especially in 2021, however he was not a super elite rider and yet Remco couldn't drop him on the climb as he lacked explosivity. Had that been a TT on that course, Remco would have won by 2 minutes. More riders need to have the guts to hang on his wheel as if they do they will be rewarded with wins. And yes the likes of Jan Tratnik (who Pogi marked Remco with idiotically in the Aus world championships) will not be able to do this. But the semi-elite riders like Colbrelli will be able to

 

[Hugh Januss]

Again the same, predictable story. Evenepoel winning a race, then his main opponents happen to be out of shape. Or did not participate. Evenepoel not winning (against his strongest opponents), then he was knocked on his merits. Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

"DNP-Old said:
Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic, Pidcock, Philipsen, Ganna, A. Yates, De Lie, Hirschi, Skjelmose, Almeida, Kooij, Jakobsen, Ayuso, Rodriguez, Laporte, Kuss, Vlasov combined victories this season: 0.
Evenepoel victories this season: 1.

We are not the same."

In fact Hirschi was the only one on DNP's list who did participate at Figueira so in this case that's not a ridiculous statement

 

[HelloDolly]

Does this win count for Remco? Or race is too small?

Nope.... he has the Tour de France sown up already

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

You are the childish one. I am just stating the Remco is overrated and a very limited rider at the top level. When they learn to not let him get away then he will prove far more ineffective. I like Pogi as a rider yes. However, I do understand the brilliance of his rivals like Vingegaard and van der Poel and can talk objectively about them and their relative strengths and weaknesses. However, Remco is not a rival to Pogi. Remco is a better TT but there is no road race profile where Remco could beat an in-form Pogi. Remco is a top rider but he will always be one step below Elit

When they learn to not let him get away

Hmm, still keeps happening it'snot like this Remco's 6th year and he's still breaking away and no one cna stop him.

So the WCRR doesn't count? Or is Pg out of form when he's doesn't win?

 

[Extinction]

That's just theory. Maybe as a preparation for a difficult one-day (climbing)race. But in a GT, there are so many (possible) variables. Vingegaard is a master of GT. Build as a climber, but, when in topshape, able to perform at the highest level in a (hilly) TT during the second and third week of a GT. I'm sure Vingegaard couldn't beat Ganna, Evenepoel and the new kid in a worlds TT. But he could and probably would in the second half of a GT. And important, untill today, Vingegaard didn't have a really bad day in a GT. Roglic, Pogacar and Evenepoel all had (several) bad days in the past.

It depends on the course. In a flat 50/50+ km TT in the third week of the Tour, Vingegaard likely won't lose as much time to the specialists as he would on the same course in a one-off event, however, he will lose time. Whereas on the type of climber-friendly course like the third week TT of last year's race, Jonas can obviously crush it. The Nice/Col d'Eze TT on the last day of this year's race should offer the Dane with a similar opportunity to humiliate the competition, however, depending on one's form and reserves, could also provide the other main contenders with a chance to dominate. And it could be decisive for the final podium placings.

PS. What I posited about gravity resistance vs aerodynamics, didn't consider attrition rate deep into a GT, which is obviously another variable as you imply.

 

[Froome]

It doesn't matter if it was a small race or not, it was entertaining and enjoyable to see, that's what cycling fans want to see, and that's what matters at the end of the day.

I hope guys like Remco evenepoel, Vingegaard, van der poel, Pogacar continue to race in a offensive way, in all the races they enter.

It doesn't matter if it's on gran camino, figueira classic, tour benelux or jaen paraiso interior.

 

[Extinction]

What wins has Remco got against Pogi in long races? The world champs in Aus but Pogi wasn't really in form then and there were idiotic tactics (marking Remco with Tratnik and then not chasing down that group??) at fault too. Remco is not explosive enough to drop Pogi so when Pogi is on form then Remco is not beating him. I would say Pogi is pretty much unbeatable in Liege when he is on top form. I think he would have won in 2020 had Alaphillippe not swerved in front of him, and this was early Pogi not like he is now who was fatigued because of the Tour. He won in 2021. In 2022 he missed because family stuff and 2023 he broke his arm. Out of all the races you would say Liege suits him best so it's very hard to beat him there. Plus Pogi will be on good form as is last race before the Giro. Pogi will win LBL this year unless he breaks his arm again

Also, there is no non-time-trial course in which top-form Remco would beat top-form Pogi. Remco hasn't got the explosiveness to drop him without idiotic tactics allowing him up the road

I say bring it on, because any real fan of the sport wants to see the top racers in peak form slugging it out amongst themselves, and may the best man win. I for one, was most disappointed we didn't get to see a real match between them in the last two Lieges. So, hopfully we finally do this year.

I must, however, beg to differ with your opinion that Remco isn't explosive. He is, just not likely to the degree of Pogacar. However, Remco, as the Worlds ITT champ, has incredible stamina and resistence to fatigue and he can make searing attacks. Thus I hardly think the guy doesn't stand a chance against Pogi at Liege. At any rate, I'm looking forward to the competition.

 

[houtdffan]

Pogi would have won both of those LBL. Remco may have won 2020 Lombardia I admit, but that was in a weak standard. Not like the field in Pogi's Lombardia wins

I'm convinced that the other posters views of you are accurate after this post. Pog would have won last year's LBL? Did you even watch the race?

 

[Kwaremonster]

Lots of respect for this win, but not exciting to see apart from the initial attack. We have to see what opposition pogacar can offer but LBL almost seems like a foregone conclusion already...

I would like to see a remco in peak shape attack from a big peloton with lots of domestiques on a flattish terrain, that could be a spectacular cat and mouse chase I think.

 

[houtdffan]

Lots of respect for this win, but not exciting to see apart from the initial attack. We have to see what opposition pogacar can offer but LBL almost seems like a foregone conclusion already...

I would like to see a remco in peak shape attack from a big peloton with lots of domestiques on a flattish terrain, that could be a spectacular cat and mouse chase I think.

may even be harder to catch Remco in FW

He easily could blast off on the second trip up the Muur, and he may not be seen until the finish as there is even more climbing than LBL in the finishing circuits

 

[AmRacer]

Again the same, predictable story. Evenepoel winning a race, then his main opponents happen to be out of shape. Or did not participate. Evenepoel not winning (against his strongest opponents), then he was knocked on his merits. Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

I am not at all claiming that Evenepoel is the best (GT) rider or that he is sometimes beaten by a stronger rider at that moment. But that applies just as well to Pogacar, Vingegaard or Roglic.

When Remco loses a race, then the argument is he's not prepared, having a bad day, was out of shape....
Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

 

[proffate]

Well, the racers from the underside of the Earth are probably pretty close, but I didn't check to see if there were any of them in these early Euro races.

What counts as underside? Australia? Southern hemisphere? Is Mexico far enough south?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pogi would have won both of those LBL. Remco may have won 2020 Lombardia I admit, but that was in a weak standard. Not like the field in Pogi's Lombardia wins

Pogacar would highly likely not have won last years LBL, and not because he wouldn't be able to beat Evenepoel, but because his form was already fading as was evident in Amstel. For 3 out of his 5 monument wins, Pogacar had to win the sprint vs guys like Mas, Masnada and Gaudu. Yet somehow you think Evenepoel is overrated and wouldn't stand a chance.

When Remco loses a race, then the argument is he's not prepared, having a bad day, was out of shape....
Such statements are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

Ignoring the facts that are staring you in the face, is what is becoming increasingly ridiculous. You think starting a GT a week after winning the WCC ITT on a long flat course against 85kg guys, can be done on ideal climbing weight? Do you really? You can't prepare for such two completely different goals in the same timeframe without making concessions concerning at least one of those goals.
You think getting covid and quitting when wearing pink is, is an excuse? You think starting your first GT as the first race after a horrible crash that took months in recovery, is something to dismiss? Maybe go and ask some other riders who had an injury like that about how long it takes to bounce back if you think so.
Evenepoel has faced Ganna in 6 championship TT's, including the OG TT. Would it surprise you if i told you that ONLY in 2021, the year of his comeback, was Ganna able to beat him? The so called best TT'er of the past 5 years, has only beaten Evenepoel in 2021 in major championships (WCC, ECC, OG). In 2019, Evenepoel beat Ganna at the WCC and the ECC. In 2022 he beat him at the WCC, and he did again in 2023. Do you think that is a coincidence?
You think crashing during a monument has no impact on the ability to compete in that race?

Please back up your statements with some examples so we can discuss concrete instances instead of this vague BS. Not every argument or reason is an excuse. When he gets dropped by Vlasov while weighing 68kg, that's not an excuse. He should get his weight under control, nobody's fault but his own. But it is an explanation and it shows he has plenty of room for improvement once he addresses the elephant in the room. Pun intended.

 

[AmRacer]

Pogacar would highly likely not have won last years LBL, and not because he wouldn't be able to beat Evenepoel, but because his form was already fading as was evident in Amstel. For 3 out of his 5 monument wins, Pogacar had to win the sprint vs guys like Mas, Masnada and Gaudu. Yet somehow you think Evenepoel is overrated and wouldn't stand a chance.


Ignoring the facts that are staring you in the face, is what is becoming increasingly ridiculous. You think starting a GT a week after winning the WCC ITT on a long flat course against 85kg guys, can be done on ideal climbing weight? Do you really? You can't prepare for such two completely different goals in the same timeframe without making concessions concerning at least one of those goals.
You think getting covid and quitting when wearing pink is, is an excuse? You think starting your first GT as the first race after a horrible crash that took months in recovery, is something to dismiss? Maybe go and ask some other riders who had an injury like that about how long it takes to bounce back if you think so.
Evenepoel has faced Ganna in 6 championship TT's, including the OG TT. Would it surprise you if i told you that ONLY in 2021, the year of his comeback, was Ganna able to beat him? The so called best TT'er of the past 5 years, has only beaten Evenepoel in 2021 in major championships (WCC, ECC, OG). In 2019, Evenepoel beat Ganna at the WCC and the ECC. In 2022 he beat him at the WCC, and he did again in 2023. Do you think that is a coincidence?
You think crashing during a monument has no impact on the ability to compete in that race?

Please back up your statements with some examples so we can discuss concrete instances instead of this vague BS. Not every argument or reason is an excuse. When he gets dropped by Vlasov while weighing 68kg, that's not an excuse. He should get his weight under control, nobody's fault but his own. But it is an explanation and it shows he has plenty of room for improvement once he addresses the elephant in the room. Pun intended.

Since you are ignoring facts, which don't fit your Remco biased world view, discussing with you is pointless.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Since you are ignoring facts, which don't fit your Remco biased world view, discussing with you is pointless.

Funny. See, i think you would rather not discuss these facts with somebody who actually knows what he is talking about unlike yourself. Come back any time if you actually have valid arguments.

 

[red_flanders]

Dumoulin was a top rider, he won the Giro, was second in the Tour, was world TT champion, was 2nd in 2 Olympic TTs. He could have won more one day races had he wanted to and been willing to bunny-bush semi-pro opposition like Remco did today. Perhaps Remco is a slightly better rider, but he is what Dumoulin would have been without the mental health problems and with a longer peak. And no, they are not an exact match but no 2 riders are. But of all the recent riders I can think of in terms of type of rider and ability Dumoulin is closest to Remco. Physiologically Evenepoel and Dumoulin were very similar, however Remco has more mental toughness and more willingness to win a wider array of races, whereas Dumoulin was focused on a smaller amount of races. However physiologically they are very similar riders both in terms of ability and type of rider

In fact, I suspect had a top form Dumoulin from 2018 been in Remco's LBL wins then he would have won, since Remco is arrogant and wouldn't be able to drop him and then Dumoulin would outsprint him since Dumoulin would have the race smarts to sit on his wheel and Remco the arrogance to accept this. However, there was noone of his level in those races. Last year his closest rivals where Pidcock and Buitrago and the year before Quinten Hermans was 2nd?? A top form Dumoulin would have won both those races instead of Remco

If one thinks Remco is a “slightly better rider tha Dumoulin” one is delusional, agenda driven, clueless about cycling, or trolling.

He jus annihilated the pro peloton in a warmup race. Untouchable. This is the reaction? FFS.

 

[sam6]

If one thinks Remco is a “slightly better rider tha Dumoulin” one is delusional, agenda driven, clueless about cycling, or trolling.

He jus annihilated the pro peloton in a warmup race. Untouchable. This is the reaction? FFS.

Remco is the better rider but they are the same physiologically. Mostly as he is mentally tougher. Plus Remco will have a much longer peak. But Dumoulin is the rider most similar to Remco

Also, Dumoulin was actually a really top rider at his best!! Don't dis Dumoulin!