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Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Fair points about the teams as well as Pogi's relative strength. The opposition was not the best. However...

It's hard to imagine any of the other competitors trashing even that crew in the way Pogi just did. I feel like he'd have beaten anyone in the world other than a top Vingegaard by 5 mins, even if Remco or Roglič would have been 3-4 mins in front of the guys who made the podium.
I've said it before; most of Pog's opposition we're always racing for 2nd. Tactically and performance-wise he was given free rein to exit the peloton and he built that lead. It saved the other podium candidates alot of energy to avoid getting out on a limb with Pogacar and then losing chunks of time when they blow up.
Tadej had the energy to win it either way; they just gave up early and often. It won't happen at the Tour until several main rivals test him and fail...or find a way to take time on their own.
The Dauphene will simplify that view, IMO.
 
I usually quote the part I reply to.

I happen to think that you believe both of your statements as they were written. They do not contradict each other, so the latter statement doesn't change the former. I don't see how "I feel like he'd have beaten anyone in the world other than a top Vingegaard by 5 mins" implies that you are "accounting for the fact that Vingo is currently kaput".

So he would have beaten a top Vingegaard by 3½ minutes and thus you cannot imagine Vingegaard winning the Giro by almost 10 minutes? That seems to fit your first post of this exchange.

If you truly weren't looking to argue with me, you could just have clarified that you agree with me, and that by "any of the other competitors" you mean any other than Vingegaard.
Wow.

Have a great weekend!
 
I've said it before; most of Pog's opposition we're always racing for 2nd. Tactically and performance-wise he was given free rein to exit the peloton and he built that lead. It saved the other podium candidates alot of energy to avoid getting out on a limb with Pogacar and then losing chunks of time when they blow up.
Tadej had the energy to win it either way; they just gave up early and often. It won't happen at the Tour until several main rivals test him and fail...or find a way to take time on their own.
The Dauphene will simplify that view, IMO.
Yeah that’s interesting, good points.
 
I have no idea how any of the main contenders will ride, until on the day. There are more than the main 4 who are capable of podiuming (winning included) if things go perfect for them. I think Remco will come into the Tour in very good nick, regardless of his fall a while back. Same goes for the rest, apart from Vingo. Vingo is a complete unknown until the Tour. I wish them all the best, and hope the banter on the riders threads stays that way, and doesn't get out of hand that gets folk banned. I'm gonna go for a Roglic win. Remco to put up a good show and stay the distance, but not quite having enough to win (Top 5).
 
I suspect roglic might win this too (much based on what quickstep said but again that can be a trap) I would expect Evenpoel to be atleast top 3 here and could beat Ayuso but the main thing is regardless progressing throughout Dauphine and that same applies to everyone.

In that regard they know their stuff today all teams know how to track that data properly and cycling in terms of recovery has flipped a switch with the new carb plan just compared to 2 years ago even. And the race days for Evenpoel and Roglic up to now for me dont suggest they should soft peddal dauphine in terms of beeing 100% fresh for the tour I dont think they need that as much as maby someone else.

The entire dauphine has alot of suspense nothing is certain whos gonne win etc - gonne be a good race!
 
Van Wilder. No s at the end. He already finished the Giro in 12th place, after deliberately losing time in the first week, and taking it easy in the 2nd TT to help Evenepoel the coming days... just to see Evenepoel retire with covid. He was climbing with the other top 10 contenders just fine. He also has plenty of margin to improve, since he is taking a conservative approach to his career. His 1 week results in races he targets are very comparable to those of top 5-10 contenders in a GT. He was 5th in Burgos, 3rd in Algarve, 4th in Romandie, 4th in UAE Tour, 4th in Pologne, 4th in Luxembourg, 12th in the Giro and he won Germany Tour, all in the past 2 years. Saying he can't reach a top 10 in a GT in the future, while he just turned 24 two weeks ago and has not been living like a monk or training like a mad man yet (he wants to take things slowly and make sure he peaks in his career when he is physically the strongest between 25-30), seems like a dangerous prediction. Had he not deliberately lost time in the 2nd TT in the Giro alone, he would already have finished the Giro in the top 10.
I think your reaction could have been to the point.... one or two years ago. But since then I no longer see any (relative) evolution. No doubt he is a talented guy. He is still improving, but less quickly than his peers and the riders of his age and a bit older. Then there are a lot of young people in their early twenties who are (almost) as good and will surpass him in a few years. I had hoped that he could have competed for victory in the small stage races in which he was the leader. But it didn't happen.

You know how it works. If you haven't proven by the age 24/25 that you can finish it, you become a domestique. Cfr Porte, Majka, even Kuss (even if he won the Vuelta through a combination of circumstances). But there's nothing wrong or dishonorable being a (good) domestique.
 
I think your reaction could have been to the point.... one or two years ago. But since then I no longer see any (relative) evolution. No doubt he is a talented guy. He is still improving, but less quickly than his peers and the riders of his age and a bit older. Then there are a lot of young people in their early twenties who are (almost) as good and will surpass him in a few years. I had hoped that he could have competed for victory in the small stage races in which he was the leader. But it didn't happen.

You know how it works. If you haven't proven by the age 24/25 that you can finish it, you become a domestique. Cfr Porte, Majka, even Kuss (even if he won the Vuelta through a combination of circumstances). But there's nothing wrong or dishonorable being a (good) domestique.
He did compete for victory this year being 4th 2 times this year just 20 seconds behind the winner. His TT capabilities make him a much more complete rider than Majka or Kuss. Maybe he is more like Porte but Porte did win 10 one week races. Porte was domestique for a long time but was it an absolute necessity or his own choice? Ilan apparently has a plan. We will see if he can overcome the lure if financiak security that comes with being domestique.
 
He did compete for victory this year being 4th 2 times this year just 20 seconds behind the winner. His TT capabilities make him a much more complete rider than Majka or Kuss. Maybe he is more like Porte but Porte did win 10 one week races. Porte was domestique for a long time but was it an absolute necessity or his own choice? Ilan apparently has a plan. We will see if he can overcome the lure if financiak security that comes with being domestique.

It is not just about his qualities and potential. But also about regularity, and this year after year. I didn't see that in the past, and I fear I won't see it in the future. But he still may surprise.
 
You don't believe in Roglic doing podium?
I will admit it...I don't believe in Roglic for this race. This race is loaded with top riders and Vlasov has shown a lot of motivation. I think Bora will keep both Vlasov and Roglic protected and they'll use the rest of the team as the helpers in the climbs. If Bora does use Vlasov to help Roglic then I'll have to place Kuss in the third place for my prediction. Please don't put money on this, my predictions are almost always wrong.
 
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I think your reaction could have been to the point.... one or two years ago. But since then I no longer see any (relative) evolution. No doubt he is a talented guy. He is still improving, but less quickly than his peers and the riders of his age and a bit older. Then there are a lot of young people in their early twenties who are (almost) as good and will surpass him in a few years. I had hoped that he could have competed for victory in the small stage races in which he was the leader. But it didn't happen.

You know how it works. If you haven't proven by the age 24/25 that you can finish it, you become a domestique. Cfr Porte, Majka, even Kuss (even if he won the Vuelta through a combination of circumstances). But there's nothing wrong or dishonorable being a (good) domestique.
He was virtually winning UAE Tour 1km from the finish in the final stage. He was still in the mix for the win on the final MTF in Romandie and actually finished ahead of Ayuso, who was seen by most as the one guy he would not be able to beat for the win. In Algarve he was 15s behind the winner, in Romandie he was 21s behind the winner (and had it not rained during the TT, he would have been on the podium), in Poland 22s, in UAE also 21s, in Burgos 42s (which came after him being ill a two weeks before).

Those 20 year olds that you are talking about, are doing exactly what he wants to avoid doing in order to have a long healthy career. Being on a super strict diet, and training like they need to win the TDF. It is in fact quite likely that he will have more margin to improve still than a good few of these younger riders.
 
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I will admit it...I don't believe in Roglic for this race. This race is loaded with top riders and Vlasov has shown a lot of motivation. I think Bora will keep both Vlasov and Roglic protected and they'll use the rest of the team as the helpers in the climbs. If Bora does use Vlasov to help Roglic then I'll have to place Kuss in the third place for my prediction. Please don't put money on this, my predictions are almost always wrong.
Talking about Bora, i would bet more on Hindley than Vlasov. Hindley is one of the best climbers in the world when he is good shape.

I think the Time Trial will be important, and if Remco is in good shape, he can go to the final 3 stages with a good gap.
 
I will admit it...I don't believe in Roglic for this race. This race is loaded with top riders and Vlasov has shown a lot of motivation. I think Bora will keep both Vlasov and Roglic protected and they'll use the rest of the team as the helpers in the climbs. If Bora does use Vlasov to help Roglic then I'll have to place Kuss in the third place for my prediction. Please don't put money on this, my predictions are almost always wrong.
The Roglic on Bora at PN seems like there were problems, but then he won the TT at Itzulia before the big crash. He has had the least compromising prep for the Dauphine-Tour sequence. If he doesn't win the Dauphine then age is creeping up on him.
 
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The Roglic on Bora at PN seems like there were problems, but then he won the TT at Itzulia before the big crash. He has had the least compromising prep for the Dauphine-Tour sequence. If he doesn't win the Dauphine then age is creeping up on him.
PN is history and little could be transferrable to the Dauphine except Matteo Jorgensen's strengths as real. He won't be able to sneak away on any efforts that will get much time. Everyone else should be riding near their best as the Tour is up next. Having said that it's not inconceivable that someone like Roglic actually would ride for a teammate but also make a statement ride or two for confidence. He's won this before and now seems to have his entire season set on a Tour. Bora does need a team defining race to bolster that Tour confidence.
If they do race for two leaders Remco and others will be the beneficiaries, IMO. They'd need to sort that out early if it were a true strategy.
 
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He was virtually winning UAE Tour 1km from the finish in the final stage. He was still in the mix for the win on the final MTF in Romandie and actually finished ahead of Ayuso, who was seen by most as the one guy he would not be able to beat for the win. In Algarve he was 15s behind the winner, in Romandie he was 21s behind the winner (and had it not rained during the TT, he would have been on the podium), in Poland 22s, in UAE also 21s, in Burgos 42s (which came after him being ill a two weeks before).

Those 20 year olds that you are talking about, are doing exactly what he wants to avoid doing in order to have a long healthy career. Being on a super strict diet, and training like they need to win the TDF. It is in fact quite likely that he will have more margin to improve still than a good few of these younger riders.
But Ayuso has won several TT's, smaller stage competitions and has already made an impression in GT's, even as a domestique. That's the difference. You can't attribute that to almost winning or setbacks. So, again, Van Wilders is slightly less than some opponents (of his age), less regular and he also has less grinta (although in principle he is quite fast at the uphill finish). Once Van Wilders starts to win (as a late twenties ?), you may come back to discuss.
I agree that several promising riders of 19, 20, 21 will not succeed. But some will and will surpass him. Nothing to be ashamed of. I don't understand why you don't want to see that.
 
Talking about Bora, i would bet more on Hindley than Vlasov. Hindley is one of the best climbers in the world when he is good shape.

I think the Time Trial will be important, and if Remco is in good shape, he can go to the final 3 stages with a good gap.
It would be nice to see a return of 2022 Giro Hindley.

But I also agree about Remco. I'll be very happy for Remco if he can deliver against these big names. It would finally shut up the doubters.
 
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