Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[limak_]

Can we stop using the word "dropped" when speaking about stages 4 and 9?

So now we're at the point where we need to redefine words else they apply to Evenepoel. He was just attacking backwards.

So much discussion about what 'dropping' means yet nobody offers a definition.

I find the term dropped offensive.
Can we use gained time instead?

In my dictionary of cycling expressions term "dropped" is when one rider drops behind the other one (stronger one) and he's not able to recover and get back until the end of the race. In other words we can say "he's done" and for me "dropped" is kinda definitive expression. And while "dropped" could be used when the gap between riders is 5s as well as 5mins, imho it feels more relevant in the latter case. Also "dropped" certainly doesn't apply when talking about sprint finishes.

Then I can quite relate to those who resent calling Remco "dropped" when loosing 10s after an explosive attack of Bernal on a steep ramp in the last 1km of the race (when also being quite a few meters back at the moment of attack). In fact Remco's time on the last part of that climb was even faster than Colombian's and I feel like if the climb had been longer he would've caught Bernal up or at least limited the losses.

And now, coming back to my definition, terms like "lost 10s", "was distanced in the last 1km", "didn't follow after the attack" feel much more suitable in this particular case.

Personally, I don't mind calling Remco "dropped" that much. Although I really like people being precise in their statements and I'm not surprised some Remco fans being outraged when calling their beloved "dropped" while calling a rider "dropped" is kinda serious insult in cycling (at least in my dictionary).

Hope I helped you guys just a little bit

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So much discussion about what 'dropping' means yet nobody offers a definition.

I would say "permanently, or for the duration of a race phase, distancing another rider by a clear time margin". You could say Weening dropped De Gendt in Catalunya 2016 on the penultimate climb, but De Gendt steamrolled past Weening on the last climb and won by nearly 2 minutes. Had Weening attacked on the last climb, and De Gendt passed him on the same climb, i think it's hard to say "Weening dropped De Gendt". Such a phase could be formed by the terrain (sterrati, cobbled sector, climb...) or by race dynamics (forming of groups, regrouping...).

By this definition, and by looking at race phases, it's fair to say Bernal dropped Evenepoel but while 10s on a 1.5k sector is a lot, 10s in a 170k stage isn't. It implies also looking at the context. Bernal made the gap by his initial attack. Had the 1.5k sector only been 300 meters, he would have still won by the same margin. But it's clear we can't extrapolate since after his initial attack, he didn't gain any/much time.

The point of a wager isn't that you should agree, so I can't see the purpose of this evasive response.

I'll propose the avatar bet between you:

Will Remco Evenepoel drop (distance and maintain a gap to) Egan Bernal, while the latter is on the wheel of the former, on a [gradient of less than 5 %, or whatever you'll agree constitutes false flat] in this Giro?

If yes, Logic will pick an avatar for Red Rick to wear from after the Giro until [the end of the Tour, but you'll may agree to a different duration]. If no, vice versa.

I appreciate the moderation offered, but i'm not changing my Bjorg Lambrecht avatar anytime soon. I also didn't say it's impossible for Bernal to hold Evenepoel's wheel on a false flat, i simply didn't/dont' agree it's an impossible outcome, considering i can think of numerous scenarios in which this could unfold. To take the easy way out, if Evenepoel only once drops Bernal on a false flat, somewhere in the next 10 years, Red Rick loses. If it doesn't happen, we'll still have to wait 10 years to be sure, and by that time you will all have forgotten about this silly wager. Either way, i win.

On a more serious note, i can remember at least 2 instances where Boonen wasn't able to sprint his way back to Cancellara's wheel, when the gap was only a few meters. While both were top riders, Boonen was a better sprinter, both had more or less the same size (Boonen being a bit taller, not unlike Bernal being a bit taller than Evenepoel). A corner, a speed bumb, a roundabout, a gust of wind... it doesn't take much to lose just few meters, and when you're already in the red, you don't simply "jump" back to the wheel of the guy in front of you. And obviously, we're not talking about a scenario where there are no corners, roundabouts or other factors, and we're not talking about a scenario where both riders are fresh.

 

[Jagartrott]

Amazing discussion. Thanks guys.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So now we're at the point where we need to redefine words else they apply to Evenepoel. He was just attacking backwards.

Attacking backwards. Awaiting team orders. Had something in his eye. Suckered his rival into wearing pink and losing an hour per day giving mandatory interviews.
These are all acceptable descriptions yes.

 

[Blanco]

I find the term dropped offensive.
Can we use gained time instead?

Ok then, Bernal didn't dropped Evenepoel on stage 4 and 9, but he did manage to gain time on him both times...
Don't know if he dropped Yates and co. though, to me it looked that he did...

 

[Blanco]

Fine. How many dozens of times was Froome "dropped" on mountain stages he ended up winning or putting time into opponents?

Did Evenepoel won or put time into Bernal, or I'm missing something...?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Did Evenepoel won or put time into Bernal, or I'm missing something...?

You are missing the point. The point being you can't extrapolate what happened on a short punchy climb to a 30 minute effort. The time difference was the time gained by the initial attack, not by climbing faster in a sustainable tempo.

 

[frisenfruitig]

I thought it was quite clear what I meant but some like to be very pedantic I suppose.

 

[Big Doopie]

Debating the definition of “being dropped”...

did anyone say “rest day”?

;-)

 

[Black Betsy]

Anastopoulos?

Yeah, he's a regular commentator on Greek Eurosport. Usually he's on the opposite site of overhyping riders and my feeling, after hearing him, is that Remco is exactly where they are expecting him to be...

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I was feeling kind of depressed earlier on so thought I would pop onto here and see what's going on. So glad I did, for comedy value, this is the place to be, put a smile on my face. I wonder what the lad himself would think about all the comments in this thread, bet he wish he had a different name.....




like Masnada or something.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Now that Evenepoel is riding in the peloton the term dropped doesn't' exist anymore. Peloton only consist of Evenepoel and the dead weight.

 

[Savant12]

I'm sure hoping I can refer to him as Droppedco Evenepoel in this Giro. I hope Remco's charged his uber-aero power in the rest day to drop a full Ineos train on the flat containing big hitters likes Ganna and Moscon.

 

[peterfin]

I will add yet another angle at 'being dropped' just for the sport of it In a GT, the general classification is what ultimately matters so 'being distanced' may not equal 'being dropped' if the impact on the GC is considered acceptable versus the risk or effort that would be needed to limit this distance. For example, it is clear that for a stage win, Remco should not join Bernal in an explosive climb during the final kilometer. He should attack earlier. However, that would be risky for his GC ambitions so early in his first GT so its acceptable that he loses 10-20 seconds. In the end, discounting the boni's, both have basically the same time in the GC so let just conclude that nobody has dropped anyone yet. You can add others from the top 5 or even 10 as well. Let the general classification decide who drops who.

 

[spalco]

I'm sure hoping I can refer to him as Droppedco Evenepoel in this Giro.

Evenedroep would be better.

 

[Bonimenier]

Evenedroep would be better.

Both are pretty bad . Surely someone can come up with something better.

 

[Blanco]

You are missing the point. The point being you can't extrapolate what happened on a short punchy climb to a 30 minute effort.

I'm just saying that he was dropped, and that he lost time, which by my modest opinion is true. On a +30min climbs, we will see soon...

 

[King Boonen]

Remslo Droppenpoel.

 

[remcredo]

Both are pretty bad . Surely someone can come up with something better.

Remco Even(dropsawhol)ep(eloton)oel

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Remcoleaderwithmasnada Evenepoel.

 

[Bonimenier]

I guess I was wrong. It seems like noone can come up with something better.

 

[King Boonen]

I guess I was wrong. It seems like noone can come up with something better.

Huge queues at the burn unit...

 

[BlueRoads]

I'm too lazy to write Evenepoel most times, no way I'm using something even longer.
But since Remco could come from "hremr", raven, how about ravendrop?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Remcool if he wins, Remcooked if he loses.

 

[Savant12]

Remco Evennopodium?