Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Panda Claws]

I'm not 100% i'd even pick him for the olympics now, when does the decision have to be made?

Why not? Still time to train and else it will ben tough to find goals for this season.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's be real, it's not like Belgium has a fuckload of alternatives for Evenepoel for the Olympics for both the road race and the ITT. Yeah Van Aert obviously but they have the 2 spots in the ITT.

 

[limak_]

Let's be real, it's not like Belgium has a fuckload of alternatives for Evenepoel for the Olympics for both the road race and the ITT. Yeah Van Aert obviously but they have the 2 spots in the ITT.

Campenaerts likes that.

 

[Volderke]

The crash was unfortunate. Today was a good stage to try to be in the breakaway, and the TT on the last day would have been a good test to see how well he was still going.

But I still see a lot of positives:

1. he raced for almost the whole 3 weeks of Giro, after not racing for 8 months
2. he was close to the Maglia rosa in the first 10 days.
3. he did pretty well in the first week on the mountain top finishes.
4. while he is obviously a bad descender, at least he has some more experience now (I only hope he learns from that experience).
5. expectations about him starting a race are much lower now. They were unrealistically high.
6. he learns how to deal with being defeated / disappointments / GC racing.

 

[Red Rick]

The crash was unfortunate. Today was a good stage to try to be in the breakaway, and the TT on the last day would have been a good test to see how well he was still going.

But I still see a lot of positives:

1. he raced for almost the whole 3 weeks of Giro, after not racing for 8 months
2. he was close to the Maglia rosa in the first 10 days.
3. he did pretty well in the first week on the mountain top finishes.
4. while he is obviously a bad descender, at least he has some more experience now (I only hope he learns from that experience).
5. expectations about him starting a race are much lower now. They were unrealistically high.
6. he learns how to deal with being defeated / disappointments / GC racing.

That's fair.

I find the story about the San Valentino comeback strange though. It's not rocket science to figure out what riding your own pace means, and it makes me think he's rather uncoachable.

 

[Billie]

Is he a better descender than Frank Schleck on a wet descent? If yes, he still has a chance of winning a grand tour.

Fränk was not a bad descender early on in his career (look up Lombardia 2005). The problems only started after a very nasty crash in Tour de Suisse.

Remco is an awful bike handler quite obviously (was already known before ofc).
The crash yesterday happened in the middle of the group. He was in last position. All the guys right in front of him managed to avoid the crash quite easily and he somehow ended up over the barriers...

 

[Gigs_98]

Campenaerts likes that.

You really might as well bet on Remco getting back into top shape though. Campeanaerts is fine, but even if he is his best TT self I just don't see him winning a medal.

 

[limak_]

You really might as well bet on Remco getting back into top shape though. Campeanaerts is fine, but even if he is his best TT self I just don't see him winning a medal.

I agree with you. No matter how much Victor likes that, still Remco is likely to do better in Olympics TT.

Anyway I'd really like to see well prapared Remco in a proper TT competing with all the big guys. Just to see where he is now actually.

 

[Panda Claws]

I think it might be good to let him ride those Canadian races too (GP de Québec & GP de Montréal) because there is not much else he can race during that period anyway and the field there is usually quite strong. And winning those races actually matters somewhat.

And then next year go all-in on the Tour de Suisse and if that goes well he can have a shot at the Vuelta GC imo. But that's all still a while away. I definitely hope they don't just send him to the Tour next year. Even if he has the numbers I don't think he is quite ready for the chaos of a Tour peloton yet.

 

[limak_]

About yesterday's crash. Remco's relation:
"I came into the corner and saw some guys on the ground and I couldn’t pass on the right side because I was next to another guy, so I didn’t have any chances to avoid a crash."

Video (0:16):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lth40XE5Lj8&ab_channel=Velon


For me it looks like Remco went way too fast into that tricky corner, entered it from the non optimal outside line and he would've likely crashed there regardless of the riders on the ground in front of him.
Even if his right side was open, there's no way he could change the direction so rapidly. It seems like he panicked and then went straight into the barriers. Had he been just slower entering the corner, he could've just braked like the Alpecin and Eolo guys in front of him.

 

[Red Rick]

About yesterday's crash. Remco's relation:
"I came into the corner and saw some guys on the ground and I couldn’t pass on the right side because I was next to another guy, so I didn’t have any chances to avoid a crash."

Video (0:16):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lth40XE5Lj8&ab_channel=Velon


For me it looks like Remco went way too fast into that tricky corner, entered it from the non optimal outside line and he would've likely crashed there regardless of the riders on the ground in front of him.
Even if his right side was open, there's no way he could change the direction so rapidly. It seems like he panicked and then went straight into the barriers. Had he been just slower entering the corner, he could've just braked like the Alpecin and Eolo guys in front of him.

Yeah he's just taking an impossible line in the first place. The guy in front of him takes a normal line and as a result doesn't end up crashing.

 

[Volderke]

He could have held that curve, but the AG2R rider didn't allow him.
So he was trapped.

 

[limak_]

He could have held that curve, but the AG2R rider didn't allow him.
So he was trapped.

No way. He was just riding too fast and too much outside to do that. And if you look closely AG2R rider wasn't super close to him, he still had a little space on the right.

 

[Big Doopie]

Riding the giro was a mistake. Wtf was the rush?

His descending clearly marked by Lombardy.He descended just fine into San Sebastián as a 19 year old.

Same question marks remain on 3 week recovery and successive high mountains.

For those who argue in bad faith that his climbing is questionable, he can certainly climb mountains. It is the succession of climbs and recovery that is still in question.

As to the steep gradients, he will never be explosive, however in the last climb in Lombardy, with pitches above 20% (or thereabouts?) he looked like he was on an afternoon stroll. By the time they reached the top of Zoncolan, his limited endurance was already worn down.

No matter what they said the numbers were going in, even his prologue was not up to 2020 standards and he never once looked like he was in 2020 Poland shape. Not once.

Should that be a surprise? Only because he has surprised everyone at every stage so far...

However, if we ask ourselves, would any other rider coming off that injury and 2 1/2 months prep have done any better...? Of course, we do not have the answer to that but when you think of it in those terms you realize how ridiculous it was to line him up to the giro like that.

This giro “proved” absolutely nothing, other than he is marked psychologically by his frightful crash and his amazing natural abilities could not make up for 9 months away from racing and a 2-3 month prep. What a shocker!

While I understand those who have their doubts, I believe he is a generational talent and it will be evident in time...

...but first he has to fully recover his shape from pre-Lombardy. If he never does, then all bets are off and it will be, in my mind, one of the biggest “what could have been”’s in sports.

 

[Red Rick]

Riding the giro was a mistake. Wtf was the rush?

His descending clearly marked by Lombardy.He descended just fine into San Sebastián as a 19 year old.

Same question marks remain on 3 week recovery and successive high mountains.

For those who argue in bad faith that his climbing is questionable, he can certainly climb mountains. It is the succession of climbs and recovery that is still in question.

As to the steep gradients, he will never be explosive, however in the last climb in Lombardy, with pitches above 20% (or thereabouts?) he looked like he was on an afternoon stroll. By the time they reached the top of Zoncolan, his limited endurance was already worn down.

No matter what they said the numbers were going in, even his prologue was not up to 2020 standards and he never once looked like he was in 2020 Poland shape. Not once.

Should that be a surprise? Only because he has surprised everyone at every stage so far...

However, if we ask ourselves, would any other rider coming off that injury and 2 1/2 months prep have done any better...? Of course, we do not have the answer to that but when you think of it in those terms you realize how ridiculous it was to line him up to the giro like that.

This giro “proved” absolutely nothing, other than he is marked psychologically by his frightful crash and his amazing natural abilities could not make up for 9 months away from racing and a 2-3 month prep. What a shocker!

While I understand those who have their doubts, I believe he is a generational talent and it will be evident in time...

...but first he has to full recover his shape from pre-Lombardy. If he never does, then all bets are off and it will be, in my mind, one of the biggest “what could have been”’s in sports.

If he falls short of the expectations people will always point at that crash and say "what if" rather than admit their expectations were wrong.

 

[Lefebre]

What a unlucky guy, he would be with Almeida if wasn't the crash, leading the portuguese rookie to the victory.
Uncle Pat had the perfect plan for yesterday and that happened...
For me it's over this Giro without Remco...

 

[Bonimenier]

If he falls short of the expectations people will always point at that crash and say "what if" rather than admit their expectations were wrong.

Yeah, he's so lucky he crashed so he has an excuse ready at all times now. Would definitely recommend others to copy that strategy.

 

[Big Doopie]

If he falls short of the expectations people will always point at that crash and say "what if" rather than admit their expectations were wrong.

right. Because based off of everything you had seen him do up until that point at age 20, you saw him for his true limited talent.

lol. Do you have any idea how ridiculous and fact-free your “opinion” is?

u just don’t like him and/or you get your kicks from trolling.

I absolutely cannot stand Nibali. However, at least I still totally admire his attacking and am in awe of his descending.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, he's so lucky he crashed so he has an excuse ready at all times now. Would definitely recommend others to copy that strategy.

Your words, not mine.

People are very reluctant to tone down the hype/admit it was over the top. Happens so much with tennis players. The amount of guys who are considered clowns or mentally weak or not committed to the sport cause they couldn't live up to the expectations is *** ridiculous.

 

[Red Rick]

right. Because based off of everything you had seen him do up until that point at age 20, you saw him for his true limited talent.

lol. Do you have any idea how ridiculous and fact-free your “opinion” is?

u just don’t like him and/or you get your kicks from trolling.

Case in point. I question the hype, and now I'm ridiculous and fact-free.

 

[Volderke]

No way. He was just riding too fast and too much outside to do that. And if you look closely AG2R rider wasn't super close to him, he still had a little space on the right.

You're quite firm in your reaction, but I am pretty sure he could have held that curve if his apex line wasn't blocked by the AG2R rider. He was squeezed in his position.
The outcome would have been that he ended up like the Astana rider (stopping just in time), but then he needed the apex to correct his line and brake.
Now the only option was to brake, while being squeezed in the outer section of the curve. Braking while turning = drifting towards the barrier.

And you can't just judge his speed. Other riders were braking. He can blame him for trying to overtake (or ride next to) the AG2R rider, but if the crash wasn't there, the AG2R rider would have taken the apex and all would have been fine.
Blaming Remco for this crash is like blaming a sprinter's crash because something happened in front of him in the last 200 meters.

 

[Big Doopie]

Case in point. I question the hype, and now I'm ridiculous and fact-free.

lol again.

The “hype” was based on the simple fact that not a single rider in the history of cycling had accomplished what remco had done by the age of 20. Not one. You can certainly have questions about where it will all lead, but minimizing what he had already done is, yes, ignoring the facts.

And then repeating ad nauseam that he will amount to nothing, is also fact-free...because the facts suggest otherwise.

can one put a “moderator” on ignore if the “moderator” is a troll? I haven’t tried yet, but getting real close.

 

[peterfin]

No way. He was just riding too fast and too much outside to do that. And if you look closely AG2R rider wasn't super close to him, he still had a little space on the right.

I also think he took too much risk going in to that corner but without the crash in front of him he would have made it through. It looks like he was focused on the crash in front of him and as such he didn't hold the curve and hit the barrier. He should have focused on the part of the road to the right that allowed him a chance to pass them.

Others who are used to taking risks crashed so it was a tricky corner. One of the things Remco should learn is when he can take risks and when its better to keep a bit more margin. It's not easy because these pro's are all taking risks so you can't just reduce your speed too much but you can position yourself a bit better. He also need to train his reflexes: don't look at the danger in front of you but the exit door.

The crash does show that in a situation where Remco believes he has full control, he is not afraid to take risks, so he is not completely paralized by his crash last fall. He just need to improve his skills a bit and get comfortable as well on gravel and wet surfaces.

 

[Valanga]

Case in point. I question the hype, and now I'm ridiculous and fact-free.

You're doing slightly more then questioning the hype and you know it.
I think everybody agrees there is a hype and expectations were way too high. And hypes are never good. But you're doing the exact same in the opposite direction. Probably because you just like being contrair.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I was always a bit sceptic about rushing him to the Giro with no racing before it.

They could have send him to ride Romandie + the Tour de Suisse to prepare for the Olympics and get back into racing (maybe have him work a bit on his descending with Ala in the pre-Tour training camp). If he goes well and keeps getting better and better (and gets used to fighting for positions and descending in a bunch once again) you can always send him to the Vuelta after he has some racing in his legs.