He has no real sprint but the speed he can sustain in a 2-minute effort is crazy. It's clear that QS already knows his value in the lead out.
- May 8, 2014
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The opposite. Stage 6 is the least suited for Remco.
Unless Remco finds his Burgos 2020 shape and Roglic struggles (without WVA to save him this time). The Picon Blanco was twice as long and as steep as the final climb of stage 6.
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It doesn't change the fact that stage 6 is the least suited to Remco from what we know now. Even if Roglič struggles, he'll need to struggle a lot more than in the last stage of PN. He was still 3rd best on the day, Wout or no Wout. If Remco is 3rd best on stage 6 that would be a huge step forward and a big success for him.
Also there are other riders that will be going against Remco and are better suited to the climbs on stage 6 and maybe they won't struggle. I think and expect Remco to be on the defensive in stage 6. That's why I think stages 3, 4 and 5 are better opportunities for him.
Also I sincerely hope he has another good climbing performance soon. If not I'm afraid in 2028 we will still be hearing about Picon Blanco. Hopefully in this Itzulia already so he can pose a real threat to Roglič, Yates and the others.
Big Doopie
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I understand this on one level. Because Picon Blanco is his most dominant climbing perf.
but it is a false narrative that it is his ONLY climbing perf.
sixth race after career threatening injury with no winter miles, he followed one of the top three climbers in the world — a rider who had prepared his entire season around that one race:
and he has had other strong climbing performances.
the narrative that he has no climbing ability is as false as the narrative that he is sure to be able to compete over three weeks and multiple climbs.
we do not know.
and he has dropped Yates before. This idea that he is way worse than Yates and Vlasov is also as false as stating he is way better. He has dropped them. And they (at least Vlasov) have dropped him.
again, we do not know.
- Apr 3, 2009
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If you keep being rational, paying attention the facts, and avoiding hyperbole this thread is doomed. Proceed with caution!
- Jun 7, 2011
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I think it's ironic that people only remember Picon Blanco because he won. Same week he finished seconds behind Sosa and Landa on Lagunas de Neila, ahead of Almeida, Yates, Kuss, Gaudu, Valverde, Hermans, Carapaz, Haig, Chaves... Sure it was Covid, so maybe others were a bit behind in form coming out of lockdown, but... each and every one of them? Hermans also lives in Belgium and was also able to train just like Evenepoel. He's usually good enough on these 1 week stage races and climbs, in order to act as a point of reference. He was used on this forum as a benchmark for Kuss in Utah and Ayuso in some one day race last year (where Ayuso wasn't able to follow him). So at the very least he did a good perf twice in Burgos and with Hermans as a benchmark, we know it wasn't only down to everybody else being out of form. No way someone without the inherent qualities would be able to do that twice.
He finished 4th on Kartepe (12km @ 9%) about a dozen seconds behind 'decent' 3rd tier climbers (Grossschartner, Kudus) and ahead of Polanc, Vanhoucke, O'Connor... in his second or third month as a pro, when he was still way too heavy. It was raining and cold that day by the way. Few weeks earlier he finished 15th on Jebel Hafeet (11km @ 7%), a mere 56 seconds behind Valverde, Roglic, Gaudu, after getting dropped early on the climb. He rode his own pace and rode clean past guys like Nibali, Sivakov, Schachmann, Carruso... to finish just 10 seconds down on Dumoulin (iirc, this was before Dumoulin's knee issues). He turned 19 just 4 weeks before that.
On Alto Calorado after having had to chase balls to the wall in order to close down a ridiculously motorpaced break for miles leading up to the climb, he finished with the group of favorites. That's not the hardest climb but it is long and it has high altitude. At roughly 2600m altitude, 4.5% for nearly 19 km after having gone deep for half an hour before the climb actually started, that's another indication of him being able to cope with long efforts and high altitude. So we can put that fairytale to bed as well. Come to think of it, when he won on Picon Blanco, there was a huge echelons/crosswind battle where he had to fight back from the third echelon to the front of the race. Not unlike the chasing he had to do before Alto Calorado. Now this wasn't against top tier WT opposition, but there were some decent climbers there, like G. Martin, McNulty etc. He was dropped by worse climbers on Carpegna.
Then there was the Giro stage Big Doopy mentioned (9.5km @ 5.5%). But the one i like more is the one the trolls like to use to ridicule him: Zoncolan. Two weeks into the Giro, in a 200k stage, he was dropped only in the last 1.5k of a 14k @ 8.5% climb after having climbed a penultimate climb of 10.5k @ 6%. He lost exactly 90 seconds to Bernal, who was in better form than when he won the Tour. He only lost 18 seconds to Vlasov and 28 to Bardet, 36 seconds to Carthy, and 50 seconds or less to Martinez, Buchmann, Carruso, Ciccone, D Martin. He also finished well ahead of Foss, Hirt, Nieve, Bouwman, Bilbao, Carr... Let's even ignore the fact that he came back from a nasty injury with 0 race days and a way too short prep.
So, does that sound like someone who has no chance of turning into a good climber?
He finished 4th on Kartepe (12km @ 9%) about a dozen seconds behind 'decent' 3rd tier climbers (Grossschartner, Kudus) and ahead of Polanc, Vanhoucke, O'Connor... in his second or third month as a pro, when he was still way too heavy. It was raining and cold that day by the way. Few weeks earlier he finished 15th on Jebel Hafeet (11km @ 7%), a mere 56 seconds behind Valverde, Roglic, Gaudu, after getting dropped early on the climb. He rode his own pace and rode clean past guys like Nibali, Sivakov, Schachmann, Carruso... to finish just 10 seconds down on Dumoulin (iirc, this was before Dumoulin's knee issues). He turned 19 just 4 weeks before that.
On Alto Calorado after having had to chase balls to the wall in order to close down a ridiculously motorpaced break for miles leading up to the climb, he finished with the group of favorites. That's not the hardest climb but it is long and it has high altitude. At roughly 2600m altitude, 4.5% for nearly 19 km after having gone deep for half an hour before the climb actually started, that's another indication of him being able to cope with long efforts and high altitude. So we can put that fairytale to bed as well. Come to think of it, when he won on Picon Blanco, there was a huge echelons/crosswind battle where he had to fight back from the third echelon to the front of the race. Not unlike the chasing he had to do before Alto Calorado. Now this wasn't against top tier WT opposition, but there were some decent climbers there, like G. Martin, McNulty etc. He was dropped by worse climbers on Carpegna.
Then there was the Giro stage Big Doopy mentioned (9.5km @ 5.5%). But the one i like more is the one the trolls like to use to ridicule him: Zoncolan. Two weeks into the Giro, in a 200k stage, he was dropped only in the last 1.5k of a 14k @ 8.5% climb after having climbed a penultimate climb of 10.5k @ 6%. He lost exactly 90 seconds to Bernal, who was in better form than when he won the Tour. He only lost 18 seconds to Vlasov and 28 to Bardet, 36 seconds to Carthy, and 50 seconds or less to Martinez, Buchmann, Carruso, Ciccone, D Martin. He also finished well ahead of Foss, Hirt, Nieve, Bouwman, Bilbao, Carr... Let's even ignore the fact that he came back from a nasty injury with 0 race days and a way too short prep.
So, does that sound like someone who has no chance of turning into a good climber?
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He has every chance to turn into a good climber. I also agree with you that he has delivered some decent climbing results already and even some good results. For me Carpegna in Tirreno was just a very negative outlier.
What he needs to add is consistency in my opinion. I hope to see it from him this week. I hope for multiple hard stages this week with Evenepoel being in good form in all of them. Because I feel he suffers a bit when there are multiple hard stages in a row.
Also I hope that he doesn’t blow up trying to follow Roglic or another competitor this week. A more Dumoulin like style of climbing might be better for Evenepoel than going into the red.
With regard to other competitors being better. I think you can definitely make a case for certain guys here being way more proven than Remco as actual climbers on a WT level. Yates surely is one of them.
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- Jun 7, 2011
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I'm not holding my breath for a good result this week. Him coming back from altitude a few days ago, still focusing on short climbs... I wouldn't know why it would be better than at TA unless it really was due to the weather of something. But i remain confident that the potential is definitely there.
Big Doopie
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I just wonder what the reaction would have been had Remco, like Pog, waved his arms in the air and then run complaining to the “offending” competitor…?
oh wait, we already know: condemnation and ridicule.
What if he told the press that Pog had “a lot to learn” after beating him in one race…?
Rhetorical.
Rhetorical.
oh wait, we already know: condemnation and ridicule.
What if he told the press that Pog had “a lot to learn” after beating him in one race…?
Rhetorical.
Rhetorical.
- Jun 6, 2017
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Stage 6 of this year's Itzulia is so much more than just that last climb.
there is a reason we call it "the Remco", Pog did it once, Remco made a meme of it and usually does it without any reasonI just wonder what the reaction would have been had Remco, like Pog, waved his arms in the air and then run complaining to the “offending” competitor…?
oh wait, we already know: condemnation and ridicule.
What if he told the press that Pog had “a lot to learn” after beating him in one race…?
Rhetorical.
Rhetorical.
Big Doopie
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Perhaps because you have the thread creator on ignore?
- Jun 7, 2011
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Unlike on Carpegna and in Valencia, each time he got gapped today, he kept pedalling a small gear and came back rather easily after the steepest parts. C. Rodriguez who dropped him in Valencia wasn't able to follow today. I also saw Roglic struggle a few times. I think he rode a smart race today, riding his own pace and not blowing himself up trying to follow guys on % that are a bit too steep.
- Jan 8, 2020
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Trouble for him is it's one thing to close the gap after the crest of these shorter climbs, another when you still have 4 k to go. Then the split likely widens and you don't get back on terms.
- Apr 10, 2019
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Christian Rodriguez was also in the breakaway all day today, so I don't know if it's fair compairison. Still, clearly a better showing by Remco and a step in the right direction.
I believe logic was referring to Carlos from Ineos.
- Jun 7, 2011
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Even on Carpegna when he was really bad and dropped at the foot of the first ascent, he only lost 3 minutes on Vingegaard. In the past he's shown he can pace himself very well when riding his own tempo. He can't cope with an attack like that of Yates, but Yates can't do that tempo for 5km either.
lol, clearly i was talking about Carlos Rodriguez. I wasn't aware Christian Rodriguez dropped him in Valencia.
Bonimenier
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Don't misunderstand me, I think his performance was good, but would rather have not seen him get gapped at all.
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To be honest, he looks like he still needs to shed 3 kilos and lose the baby fat.
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- Feb 20, 2012
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I didn't watch today, but I'm just gonna assume it was about electing to not follow surges and keeping an even pace.
Look, I don't believe Remco is a top tier climber, but not every half hearted reverse-attack needs to be a gotcha moment
Look, I don't believe Remco is a top tier climber, but not every half hearted reverse-attack needs to be a gotcha moment
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