Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Netserk]

Evenepoel was clearly superior today, has been on several days before, and will continue to dominate - so hats off for that.

But more generally, IMO there is something perplexing about the recent trend where riding your opponents off the wheel and long range attacks have once again become viable options for the heads of the state. Evenepoel embodies this trend better than anyone else.

In brief, a sufficient edge can once again be found from aerobic (and metabolic) capability, which allows one to ride away. Tactics will of course play a role, and succesful long range attacks of course also inspire further attempts in a cumulative causation manner. Aerodynamics etc play a role too. There are generational talents competing, but every era has those. But the basic requirement for pulling off these kinds of wins is having superior legs, because as per one famous take it's an aerobic sport, dammit.

In the late noughties and 2010s, aerobic monsters like Cancellara (or Boonen) could sometimes stomp the opposition from afar but generally utilizing this tactic was the exception, not the expectation. These days you can almost bet on some favorite going long. On his best days, Evenepoel is almost van Vleuten like, but others too have scored similar victories.

At the same time cycling is further internationalising, the talent pool is at least in principle expanding, and more likely than not the quality of (non-clinic) preparation is expected to become more standardisd amongst the top contenders. So to me the expectation is that the differences in aerobic metabolic capabilities narrow down, not become wider. However, exactly the opposite is played out before our eyes.

This is not a veiled complaint, btw, just trying to think about this aloud. Quite the contrary, the big one day races in the 2010s tended to be a lot more boring as the outcome (reduced sprint or a bunch sprint) was almost guaranteed and no one went long.

So, what might explain the developments and/or what am I missing in this simplistic post here?

Tailwind. Tailwinds everywhere. How else does the speed go up, up, up.

 

[jmdirt]

"Let me just take this race by the throat!"

Congrats young man!

 

[Asero831]

I wish Rainbow Jersey will take precedence over the White Jersey.
Are there rules regarding that?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I wish Rainbow Jersey will take precedence over the White Jersey.
Are there rules regarding that?

In a scenario where he is not the actual leader in the classification, but just the stand-in next in line to wear the jersey, then he can wear the rainbow jersey and kick the white jersey down the ladder towards the next in line. So, assume Pogacar has yellow, that means he also has white (as he's still young enough), if in that case Evenepoel is 2nd in the BYR classification, he can refuse the white jersey. But as i understand it, if Vingegaard is in yellow (who is no longer eligible for white), and Evenepoel is leading BYR (ahead of Pogacar, Ayuso, Rodriguez), then he is the actual leader of the BYR classification, and in that case he would need to wear the white jersey. This is the reason why Rodriguez was able to wear his Spanish NC jersey in the Vuelta, even in stages where he was supposed to wear white (because Evenepoel was already wearing red).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Really disappointed by the Danes. Seemed like they took out of page of Rolf's WC page and just waited, waited and waited. Disappointing effort with the squad they are sending considering they need to ride opportunistic. They got bailed out by Germany, and then Skjelmose was riding great until he wasnt.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

What an incredible set of results over a season. Nailed on velo d’or surely.

 

[johnymax]

With his last victory, he should be ahead of Foss now for Velo d'Or consideration.

 

[Asero831]

What an incredible set of results over a season. Nailed on velo d’or surely.

AVV has my vote

 

[fox]

AVV has my vote

Monument, grand tour and WC. Only candidate for the velo d'or. You cant compare with women cycling.

 

[Asero831]

AVV won yellow, red, pink and rainbow. Plus LBL.
Surely she's locked

 

[Lequack]

So he just needs one GT win and he will be more successful than Pogacar even, and then Merckx will have to take back his words and crown Remco his successor.

 

[Oldermanish]

So he just needs one GT win and he will be more successful than Pogacar even, and then Merckx will have to take back his words and crown Remco his successor.

And to the folks that will "if" and "but" about MVP not being in the race; it wouldn't have changed the outcome much. Matheu would have focused on WVA too long and then probably tried to do it himself and maybe dragged the rest a little closer. WVA was clogging up the group pursuit at key times from the abbreviated coverage I saw.
Great move, Great ride by the new WC!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Hopefully he’s not hit by a World Champion curse. Evenepoel had a marvelous season that constantly proved the doubters wrong and to return to such high form after such a bad accident is truly remarkable. I’m sure all three GTs want to have more time trial mileage to try and entice him to race. Honestly he has the best chance since Cancellara to win gold in Worlds and Olympic RR and TT, adding on European championship.

 

[Big Doopie]

And to the folks that will "if" and "but"…

In fact pretty much every interview said there was nothing to be done and there is no doubt the strongest guy won. Voeckler went out of his way when he was asked about tactics to say several times that even if everything had gone perfectly for their team it would not have changed who won.

 

[Oldermanish]

In fact pretty much every interview said there was nothing to be done and there is no doubt the strongest guy won. Voeckler went out of his way when he was asked about tactics to say several times that even if everything had gone perfectly for their team it would not have changed who won.

He was talking about the French team.....Christophe was their best bet, I think.

 

[hayneplane]

So, where do we stand?

1st = with Van Vleuten.

 

[OlavEH]

The forum meme is alive and well.

many posters/haters ;-) once again discrediting another Remco win.

@Red Rick ‘a posts alone may be 50+% following that line. He even attributed Pog and other’s “bad form” due to the TDF. Are we to forget that the winning rider only just finished a GT while all those riders were resting up and prepping only this race?

I think Rick is more balanced than those claiming Remco would have dropped everyone in most type of tough classics and mountain stages in GTs if all the top riders were present and in top shape. That's just taking it to the extreme. We have to go back to the worst clinic years to see something like that. Remco is great but dropping Pog and Vingegaard in the mountains in TDF or Pog in LBL/Il Lombardia if they are were in peak shape. No, that is just not realistic.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

1st = with Van Vleuten.

It would be hypocritical to now suddenly give it to Van Vleuten when she could (should) have won it about a dozen times before. Either they split it up for men and women, or they just come out and say it's a reward for only men. If they give it to Van Vleuten now, then they need to explain why Van Vleuten, Vos, Longo.... didn't win it ages ago.

 

[KZD]

Hopefully he’s not hit by a World Champion curse. Evenepoel had a marvelous season that constantly proved the doubters wrong and to return to such high form after such a bad accident is truly remarkable. I’m sure all three GTs want to have more time trial mileage to try and entice him to race. Honestly he has the best chance since Cancellara to win gold in Worlds and Olympic RR and TT, adding on European championship.

Even if Evenepoel is not hit by the World Champion curse, Pogačar 2022 season shows that its unlikely that Remco has a 2023 season as good as the 2022 one. Next year he will be even more marked in one day races than this year, the Worlds road race course likely won't suit him as well and I remain moderately skeptical about his chances on the Giro or in the Tour.

Still, being 22 he has plenty of time to do a season as good as this one of perhaps even better and I think 2024 could be the year where that happens with Olympics and Worlds in Zürich that should offer him plenty of opportunities to get more big wins

 

[steffr222]

Even if Evenepoel is not hit by the World Champion curse, Pogačar 2022 season shows that its unlikely that Remco has a 2023 season as good as the 2022 one. Next year he will be even more marked in one day races than this year, the Worlds road race course likely won't suit him as well and I remain moderately skeptical about his chances on the Giro or in the Tour.

Still, being 22 he has plenty of time to do a season as good as this one of perhaps even better and I think 2024 could be the year where that happens with Olympics and Worlds in Zürich that should offer him plenty of opportunities to get more big wins

A Giro with three ITT will be fine for him.

 

[hayneplane]

It would be hypocritical to now suddenly give it to Van Vleuten when she could (should) have won it about a dozen times before. Either they split it up for men and women, or they just come out and say it's a reward for only men. If they give it to Van Vleuten now, then they need to explain why Van Vleuten, Vos, Longo.... didn't win it ages ago.

Never too late to correct a historical wrong.

Agree that it would look inconsistent but in a year where we have seen womens road racing have a higher profile on TV than ever before then, unless they do go to gendered awards, it would be absurd not to recognise AVV in the top 3 at absolute minimum.

 

[Big Doopie]

I think Rick is more balanced than those claiming Remco would have dropped everyone in most type of tough classics and mountain stages in GTs if all the top riders were present and in top shape. That's just taking it to the extreme. We have to go back to the worst clinic years to see something like that. Remco is great but dropping Pog and Vingegaard in the mountains in TDF or Pog in LBL/Il Lombardia if they are were in peak shape. No, that is just not realistic.

who are these people who make those claims. There are maybe one or two here. And I agree, they are wrong.

but stating that Pog was not in good shape because of the Tdf is absolutely ridiculous. He was rested. Had trained specifically for the worlds. Did his best worlds TT. And had just won Montreal. The only reason to say that is to diminish Remco’s exploit yesterday.

and it’s more that no one ever says that type of stuff about other riders’ wins. Not a single Remco fan belittles Pog’s wins even at the freakin UAE tour where he may factually be the only rider peaking for that event. No one says “oh he only beat Adam Yates”, and “Yates was not in top shape” and “Yates wasn’t really trying” and “Vingo nor Rog were there”. This literally happens with every single one of Remco’s wins. And this time it’s also because not having radios apparently hurt everyone else but somehow helped Remco. Meanwhile he has done exactly this type of ride over and over no matter the situation or the opponents. It used to be that he could only do it if it wasn’t World Tour. And yet here we are, LBL, San Sebastián and the Worlds later, and STILL the diminishing of each win.

it’s just funny. Because the people doing it don’t even seem to realize that they are now doing a parody of themselves each time they come up with the same or new reasons.

 

[KZD]

A Giro with three ITT will be fine for him.

Maybe but one of those TT's apparently is going to be a hard MTT and stages like the Tre Cime Laveredo are the ones where there is still a bit of a question mark over Remco. Anyway, what I really want is for him to for the Tour instead, even if the course doesn't have so many TT km's and Pogacar and Vingegard end up being stronger than him, I think it will be a great learning experience for future Tours and I kind of expect the World Champion to be there.

 

[Extinction]

Well, then, do the Giro-Tour double

 

[KZD]

Well, then, do the Giro-Tour double

Sadly with the World Championships in August, I don't think that's a great plan.