• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

Page 511 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Should we change the thread title?


  • Total voters
    111
its like when Larry Warbasse said that Valverde is much more liked in the peloton than Nibali. If I am a Nibali fan I guess I completely discount the opinion of someone who is actually in the peloton…(?)

personally I cannot stand either rider for different reasons, but Nibali certainly comes across as unsmiling, somewhat full of himself, and has picked fights with almost everyone. So it does not seem difficult to believe Warbasse. However, had he said the opposite, I would then take that very much into account.

And btw Warbasse is fairly clearly not a Remco fan, saying he is liked probably as much as he is disliked. I imagine that has shifted somewhat since the early Remco days when he flailed angrily at riders who would not take turns, brushed his shoulder arrogantly on pino blanco and pushed an Ineos rider out of the way. All things, btw, that I have criticized him for.
In Nibali's defence, however, what some people construe as unsmiling is actually shyness and genuine southern humbleness. Although he can at times be guilty of over-sensitivity and quick to feeling offended (when no insult or offense was intended), because of that Sicilian pride (although it holds true of Southern Italians in general).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
But cycling and football are not comparable. Football is not a race, but a match, so direct confrontations are limited to opposing offences and defences, with often some players having little to no engagement with others. By contrast, the peleton (those not already dropped) gets a firsthand experience of the fury and power of race winning moves. When you are on the receiving end, like the example of Nibali at Liege, but also everyone else there, it's like getting punched hard in the face to be KOd. The more violent the excelleration the harder the punch (it's not surprising that cycling is often compared with boxing). Valverde is thus much more in a position than you or I to judge the actual situation (and certainly even more than some talent scout not participating in the race, feeling what riders feel in it), because he has felt Evenepoel's punches and they were brutally devestating. Talent scouting is something else. Valverde has personally felt the blows.

You have a point, but still I think that it might also make him biased to a certain degree.

It obviously goes without saying that we have seen some extremely impressive performances by Evenepoel. Performances where the rest of the peloton was helpless over a long distance despite putting in all the effort possible. It must also have made them feel helpless. But that is also exactly where Remco’s uniqueness is, he kills of the entire peloton once he is gone.

But does that alone make him a better rider than Pogacar? For me not yet. Because Pogacar also has had some extremely good performances in the best races.

And while Valverde must have felt the punches, he has been outboxed by both riders in recent years almost everywhere it mattered. So while he might have felt Evenepoels blows where harder, he was also knocked out by Pogacar on many occasions. And even he cannot say if Evenepoel can deliver an extremely hard knockout blow to Pogacar, or whether repeated Pogacar strikes will tire out Evenepoel to eventually beat him down.

So while I obviously take Valverde seriously, it is still just an opinion for me.
 
,
Well, judging that a top Pog could not drop Mas in post Worlds Italy, particularly Lombardia, indicates that what you say is highly debatable. The discussion is power output and put that Mas in the last Tour and he would have podiumed, as at the Vuelta. It's not Remco's fault that Mas was not in the same condition at the Tour as he was at the Vuelta. What counts are absolute numbers, not the race in which they occurred, even if with all the hype, pressure and mental stress at the Tour it's arguably harder to hit your best numbers there. At any rate, if Remco handles the pressure and shows up at the Tour with the form, and presumably better form, he had at the Vuelta, I bet he will be a tough nut to crack.
Pogi wasn't on top of his shape at lombardia. But he won the race.
Remco is one of the best riders of the world, but it doesn't make any sense saying that he is way better than pogacar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did. And that does not mean I want to take anything away from Evenepoel. Because I can say the same thing about him, and specifically the 2022 season.

But putting someone ahead of Pogacar as the best rider in the world. I simply can’t do it after all the performances I saw from Pogie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
You have a point, but still I think that it might also make him biased to a certain degree.

It obviously goes without saying that we have seen some extremely impressive performances by Evenepoel. Performances where the rest of the peloton was helpless over a long distance despite putting in all the effort possible. It must also have made them feel helpless. But that is also exactly where Remco’s uniqueness is, he kills of the entire peloton once he is gone.

But does that alone make him a better rider than Pogacar? For me not yet. Because Pogacar also has had some extremely good performances in the best races.

And while Valverde must have felt the punches, he has been outboxed by both riders in recent years almost everywhere it mattered. So while he might have felt Evenepoels blows where harder, he was also knocked out by Pogacar on many occasions. And even he cannot say if Evenepoel can deliver an extremely hard knockout blow to Pogacar, or whether repeated Pogacar strikes will tire out Evenepoel to eventually beat him down.

So while I obviously take Valverde seriously, it is still just an opinion for me.
Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and, until he beats him at the Tour (to say nothing of Vingegaard), I won't state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly in favor of Remco's superiority andit makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.
 
Last edited:
Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did.
2 tours de france, 1 liege bastogne liege, 2 il lombardias, in the last 3 years. It's unquestionable who is the best rider in the world currently.
 
,
Pogi wasn't on top of his shape at lombardia. But he won the race.
Remco is one of the best riders of the world, but it doesn't make any sense saying that he is way better than pogacar.
I never said he was, but Valverde. I debate, however, that Pog wasn't near his best at Lombardia, as his level was clearly very high. Now Vingegaard was a shadow of his Tour level, but not Tadej imo.
 
Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and until he beats him at the Tour I want state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly about Remco's superiority and I makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.

I understand your point, and it’s fair. But Valverde can never be sure that Evenepoel would land the same blow when fighting against Pogacar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Extinction
Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did. And that does not mean I want to take anything away from Evenepoel. Because I can say the same thing about him, and specifically the 2022 season.

But putting someone ahead of Pogacar as the best rider in the world. I simply can’t do it after all the performances I saw from Pogie.
Right until Remco wins the Tour, he is missing the final piece of the puzzle. I'd say, however, Remco's performances outside the Tour have been more devestating, how he won Liege, San Sebastian and Worlds for instance.
 
Last edited:
Right until Remco wins the Tour, he is missing the final piece of the puzzle. I'd say, however, Remco's performances outside the Tour have been more devestating, how he won Liege for instance.

Well that’s something I agree with. The way Remco wins these races is unseen in cycling in the past decades, while Pogacar, despite being a very attacking rider wins in a more convential way.

However, Pogacar does have a lot of weapons in his arsenal. And Remco will have to drop him in most races in order to win. I wouldn’t bet against Remco reaching a level where he will just drop everywhere when he wants, even in the Tour. But I also wouldn’t bet against Pogacar reaching levels where Remco is not able to drop him everywhere. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Extinction
Well that’s something I agree with. The way Remco wins these races is unseen in cycling in the past decades, while Pogacar, despite being a very attacking rider wins in a more convential way.

However, Pogacar does have a lot of weapons in his arsenal. And Remco will have to drop him in most races in order to win. I wouldn’t bet against Remco reaching a level where he will just drop everywhere when he wants, even in the Tour. But I also wouldn’t bet against Pogacar reaching levels where Remco is not able to drop him everywhere. ;)
One thing is for certain (at least I hope), we are in for some incredible battles in the coming years!
 
Ah, well, that's different. We're talking about who hit him harder, not whether the same punch sends Pog down.
Ah, well, that's different. We're talking about who hit him harder, not whether the same punch sends Pog down.

Well my point in this analogy is the following:

In order for Evenepoel to be the better rider he needs to send Pog down.

And while Valverde might be able to judge who strikes the hardest. He is not really able to judge whose strikes will land when they face each other.

And therefore it is just an opinion to me where his judgement might be right or it might be wrong. ;)
 
The watts are the watts, they are what count. Erlaitz, Pico Jano and Gaustatoppen are three performances with numbers Pogacar is yet to replicate, those are the facts.
6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
 
Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and until he beats him at the Tour I won't state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly about Remco's superiority and I makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.

It's also Hinault's old coach who said Remco is better than Hinault
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Doopie
6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
You can shift goalposts all you like. The watts are what count, and Remco just has better numbers. There’s no other to put it. Does that mean he is the better cyclist? Not at all. But it does mean your statement is incorrect.
 

TRENDING THREADS