Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Andy schleck]

part I was Itzulia last year: Remco 1-0
part II was Vuelta last year: Remco 2-0
part III Catalunya 2023...

Rubio 1 remco 0

 

[peterfin]

Remco posted again on Strava. Quite impressive ride nabbing some KOM's from Gaudu (and with some margin)

"With some margin" is even an understatement. He is 10% faster than Gaudu.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

"With some margin" is even an understatement. He is 10% faster than Gaudu.

But Armirail was also just as fast as Gaudu.

 

[Venge 82]

"With some margin" is even an understatement. He is 10% faster than Gaudu.

Indeed, I was impressed seeing those numbers

 

[Andre]

Wielerclub Wattage wil Remco Evenepoel dit jaar al in de Tour: "Laat Merlier én Jakobsen thuis" | sporza

Patrick Lefevere moet over enkele maanden kiezen tussen Tim Merlier of Fabio Jakobsen als sprinter in zijn Tour-ploeg. Maar in Wielerclub Wattage vegen ze dat dilemma eenvoudig van tafel. "Deze Tour is te zwaar voor beide sprinters", klinkt het. "De lastige Tour-start is op het lijf geschreven...

sporza.be

I agree. The giro is a waste of time. He should start the TdF this year. It's much more important. It's an unfortunate decision to focus on the giro. I guess it is the sunk cost fallacy (the fact that he started it once and want to finish business) with the time trial kilometers as the reason used to rationalize the decision.

That's ok, there's no worries in racing The Giro and racing the Tour the next year. Have to win both anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The main idea for Giro 2023 attempt was likely to avoid Rogla, Pogi and Jonas among others on a GT for now and because of being favorable to TT. To try and make it a bit easier for yourself.

 

[Oldermanish]

Remco vs Roglic in Giro could become a close duel. As close as Hindley vs TGH.

Remco and Roglic even look like bulls, with good upper bodies. You need that nowadays. Look how well former rower Jason Osborne rides. He was not far behind the best in UAE mountains. These guys, these bulls use all their body to climb these mountains. Remco is a powerful bull on his bike. In the ITT, he even is almost as good as Ganna is (!)…

Remco some day should try to win RVV, when he wants to add something new to his calendar. He even could win Roubaix with his power and endurance. But I think he would need to improve his technical skills on the cobbles beforehand.

Now I look forward to Catalunya: Remco vs Roglic, part I (part II will be Giro). Normally, I consider March‘s Catalunya as a rather „boring“ race, much weaker than April‘s Tour of the Basque Country. In 2023 however, Catalunya could become good.

At some point Remco may want to try PR but he's have to change some fundamental elements to do that. His current position would not fare well at his height unless he broke away with a small group early. There's a reason most of the winners are tall and can ride a huge gear....forever. Hinault didn't particularly enjoy the experience and he has some similarities to Remco.

 

[Red Rick]

Evenepoel in Roubaix would be a cool experiment cause I really do wonder how much weight and raw power and technique really matters in that race versus how much of it basically just regular endurance with Roubaix only standing out so much because it's the only real flat endurance race.

Evenepoel would be a nightmare to race against on the flats between the cobbles late in the race, when everyone is already dead, when no chase works that well anymore, etc.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The main idea for Giro 2023 attempt was likely to avoid Rogla, Pogi and Jonas among others on a GT for now and because of being favorable to TT. To try and make it a bit easier for yourself.

Sure, even though thats a bit boring to be honest. Fair though, he they want one more year to get it all right and the chances of winning on such a route like this year is very small, so I would probably have done the same this year.

Its also on ASO not to present such a route again next year. If they do, I dont blame Remco for skipping again

 

[Red Rick]

Sure, even though thats a bit boring to be honest. Fair though, he they want one more year to get it all right and the chances of winning on such a route like this year is very small, so I would probably have done the same this year.

Its also on ASO not to present such a route again next year. If they do, I dont blame Remco for skipping again

I vaguely remember Soudal-Quick Step saying the route had nothing to do with it and the decision was already made before they were announced.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Sure, Im just saying they cant include 20 km of time trial again and just expect Remco to show up

 

[Red Rick]

Sure, Im just saying they cant include 20 km of time trial again and just expect Remco to show up

Bet the 2023 Tour will have more minutes of ITT than the Vuelta Evenepoel won. Realistically I think the mountain stages of the 2023 Tour are actually better for him than those in most Tours. The Tour also hasn't had more than 60km of ITT since 2013, and only has had it twice since 2008.

I can only think of one Tour catering to a foreign rider and noone wants to see a 2012 route again.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Evenepoel would be a nightmare to race against on the flats between the cobbles late in the race, when everyone is already dead, when no chase works that well anymore, etc.

Very good point - exactly what I think, too…

Remco is so good on the flats in the finales of long and very long races. See WC, LBL, etc.

In some Belgian autumn classics of 200k, even Campenaerts was not able to hold Remco‘s wheel. And Campenaerts is one of the best riders on this specific terrain.

Campenaerts and de Lie have thighs and calves so big and powerful just like bodybuilder Ben Pakulski. But on the Belgian flats, they have no chance against Remco, which tells a lot. And Remco has slightly chubby legs…

 

[Netserk]

I can only think of one Tour catering to a foreign rider and noone wants to see a 2012 route again.

Libertine will tell you about 2009 any minute now!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Evenepoel in Roubaix would be a cool experiment cause I really do wonder how much weight and raw power and technique really matters in that race versus how much of it basically just regular endurance with Roubaix only standing out so much because it's the only real flat endurance race.

Evenepoel would be a nightmare to race against on the flats between the cobbles late in the race, when everyone is already dead, when no chase works that well anymore, etc.

Well, we know the distance is not an issue, and we know he can give anyone a kick between the legs on flat roads as well. The question is how much riding on cobbles would take out of him. Is he too light? Is he too short? According to Boonen Pidcock could win Roubaix and he's even lighter and one cm shorter. Then does it come down to technique? Or could he lose it due to constant positioning onto and off the pavé sections.

 

[Red Rick]

Well, we know the distance is not an issue, and we know he can give anyone a kick between the legs on flat roads as well. The question is how much riding on cobbles would take out of him. Is he too light? Is he too short? According to Boonen Pidcock could win Roubaix and he's even lighter and one cm shorter. Then does it come down to technique? Or could he lose it due to constant positioning onto and off the pavé sections.

Not sure how height should play into it. About Pidcock I'm not sure Boonen even realises how short and light Pidcock is.

I'm not that sure about the physiology of racing on flat cobbles, but I suspect it's more that it takes away the benefits of being light rather than it specifically benefits riders that are huge.

 

[Venge 82]

I believe that if Remco would train a on cobbles he might do well in a dry PR. It comes down to pushing the necessary Watts (what he's capable of - cfr the big gear (60) he was pushing in UAE tour in the TTT), adjust the position and use the right material .

In wet conditions, it's another story...

 

[Venge 82]

I would have liked Remco to participate the TdF as well, but I do believe it's a wise choice not to.

It's not only about the team not being ready yet to carry the weight in such a race, not only about competition. It's about doing things step by step. He's done 1 3-weeks GT so far and he won, but he still has to learn and so does the team.
He's 23 years old. Ok Pogi and Bernal won the TdF at early age, but why should we compare. It is possible that Pogacar will be fed up with the TdF in a few years and will focus on other goals as well. Everyone needs to choose his own path.

Another argument is the date of the Worlds. Combining Tour and Worlds this year isn't an easy one. That's certainly part of the decision as well.

 

[Panda Claws]

I love how we get to hear Boonen's opinion on everything now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Sure, even though thats a bit boring to be honest. Fair though, he they want one more year to get it all right and the chances of winning on such a route like this year is very small, so I would probably have done the same this year.

Its also on ASO not to present such a route again next year. If they do, I dont blame Remco for skipping again

Two "unexpected" things happened. A bit of surprise due to the addition of Roglič. This was not expected. And if i remember correctly there was a remark on social media. From Remco. That this Giro edition isn't all that "climbers unfriendly". Hence the emphasis on TT is not necessarily as big as one might expect. Personally i do tend to agree.

 

[Extinction]

I would have liked Remco to participate the TdF as well, but I do believe it's a wise choice not to.

It's not only about the team not being ready yet to carry the weight in such a race, not only about competition. It's about doing things step by step. , but he still has to learn and so does the team.
He's 23 years old. Ok Pogi and Bernal won the TdF at early age, but why should we compare. It is possible that Pogacar will be fed up with the TdF in a few years and will focus on other goals as well. Everyone needs to choose his own path.

Another argument is the date of the Worlds. Combining Tour and Worlds this year isn't an easy one. That's certainly part of the decision as well.

To the bolded, he's actually done 2, but didn't finish the first for the known reason.

It's also wise to forego the Tour this your, because the route is ill-suited to his strengths. I fear this may be the case over the next years, however, because France's hopes can't TT.

On a side note, I found Almeida's recent comment on losing to Roglic in yesterday's TA stage somewhat annoying. He said there's no shame in losing to Primoz, because, after Pogacar, who he had described as "unbeatable" (to only then get beaten by Vingegaard at the Tour), he is the best rider in the world. Now I'm not saying at the moment Evenepoel is better, but Almeida snobs the Belgian, perhaps embittered over having had to work for Remco before the latter was properly prepared during his comeback from the Lombardia fall at the 2021 Giro. Whatever the case, Almeida's opinion is in striking contrast with Valverde's on Evenpoel's quality.

Almeida, moreover, seems to only consider Evenepoel from his post-trama/recovery stature and not the one who in Lombardia-San Sebastion-Worlds gave everyone, including Pogacar, a master class on hammer-down solo victory, or the Remco who won the Vuelta, a race which he utterly dominated, except for the effects of a hard crash mid-race.

The Giro in May will tell us more if Roglic indeed is "the best rider in the world after Pogacar."

 

[CyclistAbi]

On a side note, I found Almeida's recent comments on losing to Roglic in yesterday's TA stage somewhat annoying. He said there's no shame in losing to Primoz, because, after Pogacar, who he described as "unbeatable" (to only then get beaten by Vingegaard at the Tour), he is the best rider in the world.

Deep down cyclists know. No shame in that. Especially if you do your best trying to beat the favorite.

 

[Extinction]

Deep down cyclists know. No shame in that. Especially if you do your best trying to beat the favorite.

Yea deep down Almeida knows he's not better than Roglic, but it's unecessary to state his opinion on who the best riders in the world are, especially when you looked like an arse saying Pogacar was "unbeatable."

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

On a side note, I found Almeida's recent comments on losing to Roglic in yesterday's TA stage somewhat annoying. He said there's no shame in losing to Primoz, because, after Pogacar, who he described as "unbeatable" (to only then get beaten by Vingegaard at the Tour), he is the best rider in the world. Now I'm not saying at the moment Evenepoel is better, but Almeida snobs the Belgian, perhaps embittered over having had to work for Remco before the latter was properly prepared during his comback from the Lombardia fall at the 2021 Giro. Whatever the case, Almeida's opinion is in striking contrast with Valverde's on Evenpoel's quality.

Almeida, moreover, seems to only consider Evenepoel from his post-trama/recovery stature and not the one who in Lombardia-San Sebastion-Worlds gave everyone, including Pogacar, a lesson hammer-down solo victory class, or the Remco who won the Vuelta, a race which he utterly dominated, except for the effects of a hard crash mid-race.

The Giro in May will tell us more if Roglic indeed is "the best rider in the world after Pogacar."

How on earth do you manage to get worked up over that. Roglic is a great champion, and even if he meant it, who cares. You can hardly expect him to start diluting a compliment. Losing to Roglic is no shame. He is the best rider in the world after Pogacar. Oh, well, and probably after Evenepoel. And, come to think of it, i also believe Van Aert is a better overall rider than Roglic. But of course, when i say that, then i also have to include Van Aert's nemesis, Van der Poel. And it's a good thing Froome broke his hip or Roglic would have been less relevant for a couple of years. And it won't take long for Ayuso to be better as well. But still, Roglic is somewhat decent.

It's no different than when joining a new team, athletes will always be talking about how that team is the best in the world. And when they leave, they will leave for another team that is the best in the world.

 

[Extinction]

How on earth do you manage to get worked up over that. Roglic is a great champion, and even if he meant it, who cares. You can hardly expect him to start diluting a compliment. Losing to Roglic is no shame. He is the best rider in the world after Pogacar. Oh, well, and probably after Evenepoel. And, come to think of it, i also believe Van Aert is a better overall rider than Roglic. But of course, when i say that, then i also have to include Van Aert's nemesis, Van der Poel. And it's a good thing Froome broke his hip or Roglic would have been less relevant for a couple of years. And it won't take long for Ayuso to be better as well. But still, Roglic is somewhat decent.

It's no different than when joining a new team, an athlete will always be talking about how that team is the best of the world. And when they leave, they will leave for another team that is the best of the world.

Because I find it annoying that he makes such claims, not only because he evidently has little regard for Evenepoel, but to basically make an excuse for not being a winner. Just say I lost to a better rider and leave it at that, without implying through further qualification that everyone else would bow down before those royals like himself.

It seems as if Almeida still thinks even he is better than Evenepoel, which is patently absurd.