Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[jmdirt]

1- When Remco speaks it gets published.
2- Remco speaks more than others.
3- I'm torn between "shut up and ride" and "someone has to say something".
3a- Remco might save some emotional energy by not getting too uptight about things beyond his control (and after the fact).

That being said, get 'em Remco!

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Yesterday was fine to criticize. But one can also note that half the peloton had the same reason to complain yesterday and Evenepoel was by far the loudest and most riled up.

Then today we get the neutralization and he's still complaining.

If today is Evenepoel standing up then I really hope he just learns to sit back down.

You must have missed Vingegaard because he was being very direct of what he thought of the organizers in the race.

 

[Venge 82]

First of all, the conditions yesterday morning were really bad.
The roads were really flooded and it was not sure if they could get everything right in time. A choice then has to be made in time and not during the stage. Especially with the amateurism of the TTT in mind, they made the right choice yesterday. Even though I was no longer interested in the stage and didn't watch.

This certainly cannot be blamed on Remco alone (if anything). Remember that Matxin of UAE already made certain suggestions not to ride until the last kilometer. Vingegaard also did his rounds (including with Enric Mas) to protest as riders.

Remco criticized the organization for the sake of safety, not for the sake of the result (because it didn't suit him badly). But many don't seem to see that. Yesterday Jumbo Visma stopped the stage briefly when Roglic fell (they take direct advantage of that), but then that is hardly criticized.

I want to point out that Remco is not to blame for anything regarding the neutralization of the ride yesterday. It's about time riders united against organizations which are only interested in making profits, spectacle value,...

 

[laarsland]

Yesterday Jumbo Visma stopped the stage briefly when Roglic fell (they take direct advantage of that), but then that is hardly criticized.

I'm sorry, but it's plain nonsense to state that Jumbo-Visma haven't been berated over that action - at least on this forum and other cycling chat groups I participate in.

 

[Volderke]

I am personally very happy that those with the highest profile (Remco, Vingegaard, Mas --> Mas probably had flashbacks to his TdF start and didn't want the same scenario in 2 GT's in a row) are the ones opening their mouths and leading the protest.

While the measurements taken yesterday seemed to have been overkill, this isn't about one stage that was GC neutralised, but about showing that the peloton isn't just a circus with some bears dancing for the audience on a hot plate.

The race organiser acknowledged they made a mistake (in the TTT), and showed they were willing to listen to feedback of the riders.

Given the predictions of really abnormal weather (40mm of rain, thunderstorms isn't normal weather for Barcelona in August), on a parcours full of road furniture / big city roundabouts with oil and grease, the very small lack of action due to the GC neutralisation yesterday was all worth it for everybody: he riders feel respected again, the GC favourites avoided crashing out on a tricky day (even though Roglic had some damage due to his crash) and the spectators got a race as good as if the breakaway would have been on the road fighting for the stage. If DSM didn't chase, that would have been the case anyways.
In hindsight, they could have raced this without neutralisation. Just like in hindsight, the TTT started too late. But in stage 2, it was a matter of better be safe than sorry (like in stage 1).

 

[Riek s]

I'm sorry, but it's plain nonsense to state that Jumbo-Visma haven't been berated over that action - at least on this forum and other cycling chat groups I participate in.

indeed. I couldn't watch the stage live, but just reading the thread of that stage it seemed as if JV was using their teambus to block the road .

 

[Berniece]

I am personally very happy that those with the highest profile (Remco, Vingegaard, Mas --> Mas probably had flashbacks to his TdF start and didn't want the same scenario in 2 GT's in a row) are the ones opening their mouths and leading the protest.

While the measurements taken yesterday seemed to have been overkill, this isn't about one stage that was GC neutralised, but about showing that the peloton isn't just a circus with some bears dancing for the audience on a hot plate.

The race organiser acknowledged they made a mistake (in the TTT), and showed they were willing to listen to feedback of the riders.

Given the predictions of really abnormal weather (40mm of rain, thunderstorms isn't normal weather for Barcelona in August), on a parcours full of road furniture / big city roundabouts with oil and grease, the very small lack of action due to the GC neutralisation yesterday was all worth it for everybody: he riders feel respected again, the GC favourites avoided crashing out on a tricky day (even though Roglic had some damage due to his crash) and the spectators got a race as good as if the breakaway would have been on the road fighting for the stage. If DSM didn't chase, that would have been the case anyways.
In hindsight, they could have raced this without neutralisation. Just like in hindsight, the TTT started too late. But in stage 2, it was a matter of better be safe than sorry (like in stage 1).

Completely agree with you. I don't understand what the fuzz was about on the forum here.

 

[tobydawq]

Completely agree with you. I don't understand what the fuzz was about on the forum here.

Yeah, it's a real mystery...

 

[Extinction]

The race organiser acknowledged they made a mistake (in the TTT), and showed they were willing to listen to feedback of the riders.

This isn't what the Vuelta boss said about the TTT fiasco (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vu...ralisation-and-stage-1-ttt-racing-conditions/), nor the riders about being listned to, as Remco's "just another day in paradise" and Vingo's "it shows the organizzation doesn't listen to us" make perfectly clear.

 

[Volderke]

This isn't what the Vuelta boss said about the TTT fiasco (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vu...ralisation-and-stage-1-ttt-racing-conditions/), nor the riders about being listned to, as Remco's "just another day in paradise" and Vingo's "it shows the organizzation doesn't listen to us" make perfectly clear.

I'm a bit confused.

Guillen said:
"“We knew that there would be rain, but not that nature would have a blackout,” he insisted. “I can understand the riders’ criticisms in the sense that we were expecting something different. We are the first in line to hope things play out differently."
so he admitted things didn't go as they thought they would, and I read between the lines that he agrees the circumstances where not OK. Ofcourse he doesn't say out loud that this is his responsability (he stresses he consulted 3 weather forecasts, already moved it 20 minutes and wasn't able to move it more due to big city planning). But yes, he admitted it was not good.

next, Guillen spoke with riders after his initial proposal to take times with 3K to go (on top of Montjuic):
“There’s a formula for these circumstances, the extreme weather protocol, which we used, and this morning the petition came through to suspend part of the course because of the very heavy rain and its effects,” Guillén said.

After he spoke, riders and organiser agreed on taking times at 9K to go. So yes, the riders were listened to, if only after guys like Remco complained about the initial proposal and after Vingegaard said that the organisation doesn't listen.

so in the end, yes, the riders were listened to.

 

[Venge 82]

I'm sorry, but it's plain nonsense to state that Jumbo-Visma haven't been berated over that action - at least on this forum and other cycling chat groups I participate in.

OK. Might be. I just follow this thread and so my opinion was based on the reactions over here.

Thanks for clarifying ;-)

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695533295377715494

View: https://www.twitter.com/ginevragarga/status/1695533295377715494

 

[Bolder]

When the weather is bad no one is going to be happy. Have we forgotten the Giro fiasco already?

I'm of two minds: On the one hand, epically bad weather makes for legendary stages. On the other hand, more riders crash because of greasy roads, frozen hands, bad visibility etc. So there has to be a balance. I wasn't following the TTT all that closely but any fool could see that there was going to be terrible weather all across southern Europe on Saturday and Sunday...so why start the stage so late? Couldn't they have just moved up the start time by 3 hours? Remco totally justified in calling out incompetence.

But Sunday was a bit of an overcompensation, I think. Riders have to take some responsibility for their own safety; it's not like Montjuic is some unknown climb deep in the Massif Central...

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

What's the difference? Wasn't he right? People are whining about remco complaining they needed to ride in the darkness without streetlights. Most common reply on that is the idiotic footballer statement and that others didn't complain. This isn't the first time, he has an active fan club of haters trying to misunderstand every word.

Actually people AREN'T whining about Remco complaining. That's the whole point.

 

[Riek s]

Actually people AREN'T whining about Remco complaining. That's the whole point

Remco already complaining?

Remco always crying 😂

Why does Evenepoel insist on making it so difficult to like him.

SO TRUE!

I understand Remco's frustration, but he didn't crash or have a puncture like Vingegaard so maybe he should tone it down a little and count himself lucky. I don't read any whinging from Roglic

It was dark in pamplona in 2013

It was dark in 2010

But when you're Always crying wolf people stop listening.

Yes It was

And in the first 20 so years of the Tour they rode through the night ...proper order too

That great Irish amateur rider who won the RAS many time trained in the night as that was the only time he could

Just on the race thread. Twitter also has many of them. So I disagree, there are people whining about it. ( to be fair some have changed their mind due to others). While as you say this shouldn't be controversial at all, yet we have people saying the dark was ok

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Just on the race thread. Twitter also has many of them. So I disagree, there are people whining about it. ( to be fair some have changed their mind due to others). While as you say this shouldn't be controversial at all, yet we have people saying the dark was ok

Whining while using a laughing emoji? It‘s just funny that the ex-footballer in cycling leads the people who complain, it‘s not even all bad.

 

[Extinction]

I'm a bit confused.

Guillen said:
"“We knew that there would be rain, but not that nature would have a blackout,” he insisted. “I can understand the riders’ criticisms in the sense that we were expecting something different. We are the first in line to hope things play out differently."
so he admitted things didn't go as they thought they would, and I read between the lines that he agrees the circumstances where not OK. Ofcourse he doesn't say out loud that this is his responsability (he stresses he consulted 3 weather forecasts, already moved it 20 minutes and wasn't able to move it more due to big city planning). But yes, he admitted it was not good.

next, Guillen spoke with riders after his initial proposal to take times with 3K to go (on top of Montjuic):
“There’s a formula for these circumstances, the extreme weather protocol, which we used, and this morning the petition came through to suspend part of the course because of the very heavy rain and its effects,” Guillén said.

After he spoke, riders and organiser agreed on taking times at 9K to go. So yes, the riders were listened to, if only after guys like Remco complained about the initial proposal and after Vingegaard said that the organisation doesn't listen.

so in the end, yes, the riders were listened to.

You are cherry-picking, while overlooking the real sense of the statements and totally neglect what both Evenepoel and Vingo said about not being listened to regarding the organization's final decision.

Guillen did not admit making a mistake, stating clearly that there was nothing the organization could have done about the TTT, which is total bs. All that needed to be done was to start an hour earlier, everything else is an excuse to not admit fault. Secondly, after the decision was made to take the times at 9 km to go, Evenepoel and Vingo said in no uncertain terms that the riders were not listened to, that it made no sense to take the times there and that they recommended it be done before the finishing circuit. So, in the end, no, the riders were not listened to, as these riders themselves had said the morning before the start.

 

[Volderke]

You are cherry-picking, while overlooking the real sense of the statements and totally neglect what both Evenepoel and Vingo said about not being listened to regarding the organization's final decision.

Guillen did not admit making a mistake, stating clearly that there was nothing the organization could have done about the TTT, which is total bs. All that needed to be done was to start an hour earlier, everything else is an excuse to not admit fault. Secondly, after the decision was made to take the times at 9 km to go, Evenepoel and Vingo said in no uncertain terms that the riders were not listened to, that it made no sense to take the times there and that they recommended it be done before the finishing circuit. So, in the end, no, the riders were not listened to, as these riders themselves had said the morning before the start.

are you sure you're not confusing old info from the article with what actually happened? 9K to go is before the finishing circuit. Remco asked for time at around 7 or 8K to go and only complained about the initial proposal with times taken at 3K to go.

Guillen ofcourse didn't admit making a mistake, but he acknowledged it was not good. Those are different things. He expalined why starting an hour earlier was impossible (closing down streets etc.). If that's a good excuse I don't know, but he didn't come across as being authoritarian, rather diplomatic without wanting to concede too much (because if you do that as an organiser, you quickly get situations like in the Giro with the rainy stage).
But in short: stage 2 measures were taken as some kind of diplomatic gesture towards Evenepoel and others riding in the dark on day 1. Stage 2 had ofcourse its own issues but while those were solved during the stage, it wouldn't have been wise of Guillen to retract his diplomatic neutralisation in the middle of the stage. Now all is peace and quiet, the race can really start.

 

[Extinction]

are you sure you're not confusing old info from the article with what actually happened? 9K to go is before the finishing circuit. Remco asked for time at around 7 or 8K to go and only complained about the initial proposal with times taken at 3K to go.

Guillen ofcourse didn't admit making a mistake, but he acknowledged it was not good. Those are different things. He expalined why starting an hour earlier was impossible (closing down streets etc.). If that's a good excuse I don't know, but he didn't come across as being authoritarian, rather diplomatic without wanting to concede too much (because if you do that as an organiser, you quickly get situations like in the Giro with the rainy stage).
But in short: stage 2 measures were taken as some kind of diplomatic gesture towards Evenepoel and others riding in the dark on day 1. Stage 2 had ofcourse its own issues but while those were solved during the stage, it wouldn't have been wise of Guillen to retract his diplomatic neutralisation in the middle of the stage. Now all is peace and quiet, the race can really start.

Arguments noted, however, I still don't think I've misread things. Although I admit that the debate of the 9km/finishing circuit wasn't very clear, or at least wasn't clear to me. At any rate, the two points I don't think were debatable are a) Guillien (expectedly) did not outright admit to being at fault regarding the TTT and b) Evenepoel and Vingo clearly stated, after it was decided to take times at 9km to go, that the organization had not listended to the riders.

But this is all over now and so hopefully the Vuelta produces a great spectacle from here on out!

 

[jmdirt]

When the weather is bad no one is going to be happy. Have we forgotten the Giro fiasco already?

I'm of two minds: On the one hand, epically bad weather makes for legendary stages. On the other hand, more riders crash because of greasy roads, frozen hands, bad visibility etc. So there has to be a balance. I wasn't following the TTT all that closely but any fool could see that there was going to be terrible weather all across southern Europe on Saturday and Sunday...so why start the stage so late? Couldn't they have just moved up the start time by 3 hours? Remco totally justified in calling out incompetence.

But Sunday was a bit of an overcompensation, I think. Riders have to take some responsibility for their own safety; it's not like Montjuic is some unknown climb deep in the Massif Central...

Based on what I've read, no. While we see this race as the biggest thing in the world at this time, 98% of the people who live in the city just want their roads open.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Standing by for the next 25 pages of why Remco doesn't have to use his brakes. Everyone else needs to get out of his way.

 

[red_flanders]

Gotta admit, I’m impressed. Didn’t think he’d win that stage from that bunch. Game on.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The Vuelta will (likely) be won on the big mountains, not on mountain sprints, but of course it’s always a good sign to win stages.

I think Hirt and Vervaeke looked strong (stronger than expected?), but I think it would be wise to give the jersey away as soon as possible.

Also, to me it looked to be Remcos fault that the crash happened. His speed directly into the crowd looked way too fast, and I don’t think the other riders went the same direction??

 

[Oldermanish]

Gotta admit, I’m impressed. Didn’t think he’d win that stage from that bunch. Game on.

Excellent tactical sprint, too. He picked the outside line while Primoz was in a box of UAE riders and forced to sprint up the steeper inside line. He's gone to sleep like that before....
Beautiful stage and absent of any really egregious obstacles. That long descent was gorgeous and very well marked. Hopefully that can be more of the standard going forward.
Remco also now knows the celebration past the finish line can't be quite so long.

 

[Oldermanish]

The Vuelta will (likely) be won on the big mountains, not on mountain sprints, but of course it’s always a good sign to win stages.

I think Hirt and Vervaeke looked strong (stronger than expected?), but I think it would be wise to give the jersey away as soon as possible.

Also, to me it looked to be Remcos fault that the crash happened. His speed directly into the crowd looked way too fast, and I don’t think the other riders went the same direction??

There wasn't much room but he enjoyed the celebration just a tad too long.