Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

(1) I would rather compare 2 riders with non-ideal preparation in a similar situation, than saying Roglic won underprepped in a non-stacked Vuelta while Remco lost underprepped in the best Vuelta field of the last 10 years.
(2) I only said a (lowest) podium spot would have been the highest possible for Remco if well-prepared. That's pretty realistic imho. And I also said Roglic wouldn't have gotten the top spot (rather second or 3rd) if Vingegaard raced full-on. That also seems pretty realistic imho. You can discuss about both but to say that's disingenuous...?

1. Since Rog is one of top three, and the other 2 wasn't there, of course any field would be non-stacked.
2. A well prepared, ideal build up, 100 % everything Remco is better than a 3 GT Monster Kuss. But it has to be a perfect preparation of course. 95 % isn't good enough.

 

[Volderke]

1. Since Rog is one of top three, and the other 2 wasn't there, of course any field would be non-stacked.
2. A well prepared, ideal build up, 100 % everything Remco is better than a 3 GT Monster Kuss. But it has to be a perfect preparation of course. 95 % isn't good enough.

if Remco was only racing Kuss (and not a tridente), and if Kuss had the same team strength as Remco, I would like to see...
A good Remco can't be controlled by a weak team, in almost any stage. Put Kuss in any other team and he wouldn't have gotten 2-3 helpers pulling him 4 minutes away from a weak SQS team. And if you have Kuss without Vingegaard and Roglic, he would face attacks left and right.
A good Remco vs. a very strong team who can keep him on a leash, is as good as his best climbing (which is anything between 1st and 5th, depending on the competition, thus in this Vuelta somewhere 3th-5th).

 

[AmRacer]

if Remco was only racing Kuss (and not a tridente), and if Kuss had the same team strength as Remco, I would like to see...
A good Remco can't be controlled by a weak team, in almost any stage. Put Kuss in any other team and he wouldn't have gotten 2-3 helpers pulling him 4 minutes away from a weak SQS team. And if you have Kuss without Vingegaard and Roglic, he would face attacks left and right.
A good Remco vs. a very strong team who can keep him on a leash, is as good as his best climbing (which is anything between 1st and 5th, depending on the competition, thus in this Vuelta somewhere 3th-5th).

So Remco with ideal preparation and a better team can take on Kuss, the 3 GT Monster.

 

[Volderke]

So Remco with ideal preparation and a better team can take on Kuss, the 3 GT Monster.

Remco with a better team = Kuss without a 4 minute 'gift' in this particular Vuelta. That ofcourse changes a lot.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The thread is too funny with the depth of analysis people will make relating to minor points about remco. Soon I expect universities to offer courses in remco theory, some forum members could write excellent thesis on how you could maximise the chances of remco winning a grand tour.

 

[theyoungest]

The thread is too funny with the depth of analysis people will make relating to minor points about remco. Soon I expect universities to offer courses in remco theory, some forum members could write excellent thesis on how you could maximise the chances of remco winning a grand tour.

It's the same with Pogacar. People want to believe in superhumans so if these riders turn out to be quite human they just can't believe it and start overtheorizing about why they "failed".

 

[Blanco]

I don't think so. I feel Vingegaard would have won, and so does the majority of cycling fans / followers / journalists and riders.

Who? Where? Which ones?

Oh an by the way 2021 Vuelta field was not week at all. You had Roglic, Bernal - current Giro champ, Carapaz - 3rd from the Tour, Adam Yates, Enric Mas, Miguel Angel Lopez, Landa, Jack Haig, Hugh Carthy, Vlasov, Bardet, Ciccone.
Jumbo team was very strong - Kuss, Kruijswijk, Gesink, Bouwman, Oomen, Van Hooydonck, Hofstede. Ineos was even stronger, Movistar also very strong, Bahrain too.
So I don't agree that was a week edition.

 

[Netserk]

The framing “avoided all confrontations” is either trolling or wildly obtuse with regard to the goals left to him at that point. He could win stages and the polka dot, or climb with the GC group for no reason. Not exactly difficult choices for him or hard to parse as a viewer.

Unless one is just trying for whatever reason to paint some of the most exciting and entertaining efforts of the race in as poor a light as possible.

I've written this before: it wasn't an exclusive choice of one or the other. Yes, he should aim for stage wins. Yes, he should aim for KOM. That still doesn't contradict that he should go against the best on either Bejes or Angliru.

 

[Volderke]

Who? Where? Which ones?

Oh an by the way 2021 Vuelta field was not week at all. You had Roglic, Bernal - current Giro champ, Carapaz - 3rd from the Tour, Adam Yates, Enric Mas, Miguel Angel Lopez, Landa, Jack Haig, Hugh Carthy, Vlasov, Bardet, Ciccone.
Jumbo team was very strong - Kuss, Kruijswijk, Gesink, Bouwman, Oomen, Van Hooydonck, Hofstede. Ineos was even stronger, Movistar also very strong, Bahrain too.
So I don't agree that was a week edition.

we agree to disagree I would say...

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

And what makes this the strongest Vuelta field of the last 10 years? Who did Remco face?
Roglic-Vingegaard-Kuss, ok, yes, those 2 plus due to the team the third

Landa? After the season he had? And while he finally was decent again here, it was not all that impressive either. Still not the old Landa.
Ayuso? He didn't seem to have progressed much compared to 22
Almeida? Got sick, lost time, then his usual drop+chase self.
Mas? Coming from a Tour crash, clearly weaker than 21
Thomas: An announced failure here almost. The chances that he wouldn't manage to get a second peak, in his first try, at an estimated age of 59 were quite big.
Arensman, crashed out.
Vlasov underperformed too. Cian did very well.

Roglic-Vingegaard, that's it. Don't think anybody predicted anybody other than Roglic-Vingegaard-Remco.

 

[Lequack]

Remco has a successor, or so they say.

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS Grenadiers just took home an European Championships title with Joshua Tarling, 19 years of age and younger than the new under-23 European Champion in the time-trial. World Tour teams are signing...

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[Berniece]

Remco has a successor, or so they say.

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS Grenadiers just took home an European Championships title with Joshua Tarling, 19 years of age and younger than the new under-23 European Champion in the time-trial. World Tour teams are signing...

cyclinguptodate.com

To say it in Remco's own words:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299233405851316224

 

[AmRacer]

To say it in Remco's own words:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299233405851316224

It's about time to

change the thread title​

 

[Berniece]

It's about time to

change the thread title​

No one cares about the thread title, it's tongue in cheek

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It's about time to

change the thread title​

One should never change any thread title.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Remco has a successor, or so they say.

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS set to sign 17-year old American supertalent Andrew August - "He is Remco, but probably with more power"

INEOS Grenadiers just took home an European Championships title with Joshua Tarling, 19 years of age and younger than the new under-23 European Champion in the time-trial. World Tour teams are signing...

cyclinguptodate.com

Someone spent too much time following Jonathan Voughter on Twitter

 

[QueenStagiaire]

No one cares about the thread title

Why not change it then?

 

[frisenfruitig]

I'm curious how good Evenepoel would be if he had access to JV's "knowledge" when it comes to preparing riders for GTs/classics. Whatever it is they are doing, they certainly seem to be much better at it compared to all other teams.

 

[Berniece]

Why not change it then?

Like I said, it's fun because it's tongue in cheek. We could have a boring thread title like "Jonas Vingegaard", which is so boring compared to "The chicken who eats Riis for breakfast". When he was a junior he was compared to Merckx, because he won in crazy ways. It dates back from back then, so why would we change it? Why do people have so much issue with this comparison that doesn't mean anything?

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Ask Remco!

 

[peterfin]

Like I said, it's fun because it's tongue in cheek. We could have a boring thread title like "Jonas Vingegaard", which is so boring compared to "The chicken who eats Riis for breakfast". When he was a junior he was compared to Merckx, because he won in crazy ways. It dates back from back then, so why would we change it? Why do people have so much issue with this comparison that doesn't mean anything?

I am on the same page but I do wonder if the seriousness of the debate here and the continuous focus on Remco's 'abysmal' GT abilities, GT failures etc is partly influenced by the title.

 

[Volderke]

And what makes this the strongest Vuelta field of the last 10 years?

It was a combination of a very strong field (I'm talking about podium candidates, that's more than enough if those are head and shoulders above the others) and a race that was raced really hard (in terms of high-level intensity, notwithstanding the neutralisation in the second stage), up until Angliru.

If it was the strongest field is a question that cannot be answered easily. It's clear though that having both the Giro and Tour winner, together in the same (strongest) team, isn't something you often see.
(but I'm done with discussing the obvious, i.e. that this Vuelta had a seriously overpowered JV team + 2 top favourites that would be favourites in any GT, making it hard from the start for any other contender, be it Remco or anybody else, to aim for the top spot on the podium, unless having a very strong team and a Vingegaard climbing level)

 

[AmRacer]

Like I said, it's fun because it's tongue in cheek. We could have a boring thread title like "Jonas Vingegaard", which is so boring compared to "The chicken who eats Riis for breakfast". When he was a junior he was compared to Merckx, because he won in crazy ways. It dates back from back then, so why would we change it? Why do people have so much issue with this comparison that doesn't mean anything?

Remco asked to not be compared?

 

[Berniece]

I am on the same page but I do wonder if the seriousness of the debate here and the continuous focus on Remco's 'abysmal' GT abilities, GT failures etc is partly influenced by the title.

If it's really about GT, Remco was 22 when he won his first GT, Merckx 23. Actually Remco and Pogacar have much bigger wins compared to Merckx when you compare by their age. Yes, I'm aware different times, different measures. The comparison is ridiculous.

Remco asked to not be compared?

He asked not to be called the next Merckx.

 

[topcat]

Keep the thread title-it’s funny

I am on the same page but I do wonder if the seriousness of the debate here and the continuous focus on Remco's 'abysmal' GT abilities, GT failures etc is partly influenced by the title.

No, they just want a fight. Most of them are Roglic fans who are still crying about the 2020 tour.