Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

O

Yes, but the same can be said for many TTers. They were not there or were but not with the best numbers.
I recommend also a bit more humility regarding who's writing nonsense.

Oh, please, if you can't even recognize the colossal gap that separates preparing to be in top form for the only TT that really matters as an isolated event, and an end of the season tertiary objective for one who had a host of major targets throughout the year, then be humble enough to at least rethink the absurdity of your analysis. And I said it was stupid for Remco to trouble himself with a race, all things considered, that was simply a needless overstretch, when it's time to stop, reboot and start envisioning how 2024 might best be planned and tackled.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Remco behind the scenes at Les Chrono des Nations

 

[Oldermanish]

O

Oh, please, if you can't even recognize the colossal gap that separates preparing to be in top form for the only TT that really matters as an isolated event, and an end of the season tertiary objective for one who had a host of major targets throughout the year, then be humble enough to at least rethink the absurdity of your analysis. And I said it was stupid for Remco to trouble himself with a race, all things considered, that was simply a needless overstretch, when it's time to stop, reboot and start envisioning how 2024 might best be planned and tackled.

...but when you're paid as a pro to show up at end-of-season events, you go. It's the bonus of being a respected rider and the money can be good. I doubt he jeopardized next season with the effort any more than Pogacar in the Asian crit shows he does.

 

[Andre]

Remco should be resting up. There are myriad of races to be won in 2024.

 

[red_flanders]

I stated before that Remco (or anyother rider, for that matter) winning the RWC TT did not make him the best TTer of the world.

Generally I would say that would be true of the Worlds TT. However, this rider, who has won GT TT's as well, who beat an in-form Ganna in the World's? That certainly puts him in the best "TT Rider in the World" conversation. That conversation? Remco and Ganna, that's the list. And in a close competition on which reasonable people could disagree, I'll take the guy in the Rainbow Jersey. For now.

So now he got beat by the new kid monster in town. It doesn't mean he did not deserve the RWC TT title, but certainly adds perspective.

Well it's certainly an incredible performance by the kid, and no mistake he might soon be the best TT Rider in the World. But he's not yet, and the Chrono de Nations or whatever the balls it's called, doesn't seem like the best measuring stick, no? It's and end of season race that's exactly no one's target. Remco rode it so he could put on his rainbow slippers.

Not sure if you'd disagree with much of that, but curious your thoughts.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Generally I would say that would be true of the Worlds TT. However, this rider, who has won GT TT's as well, who beat an in-form Ganna in the World's? That certainly puts him in the best "TT Rider in the World" conversation. That conversation? Remco and Ganna, that's the list. And in a close competition on which reasonable people could disagree, I'll take the guy in the Rainbow Jersey. For now.


Well it's certainly an incredible performance by the kid, and no mistake he might soon be the best TT Rider in the World. But he's not yet, and the Chrono de Nations or whatever the balls it's called, doesn't seem like the best measuring stick, no? It's and end of season race that's exactly no one's target. Remco rode it so he could put on his rainbow slippers.

Not sure if you'd disagree with much of that, but curious your thoughts.

Remco’s certainly the beat TTer in the world this year considering he is at least in the convo as best flat TTer while being a much better climber than Ganna and Tarling but some of this analysis needs to be contextualised with the fact that Tarling has major kit and minor position changes immediately after worlds that Bigham said resulted in a >10w gain in aero. Just that and an equal performance would have put him around Ganna at worlds, then you have whatever he lost from not having a PM and trying to get it connected for over a KM.

 

[Extinction]

...but when you're paid as a pro to show up at end-of-season events, you go. It's the bonus of being a respected rider and the money can be good. I doubt he jeopardized next season with the effort any more than Pogacar in the Asian crit shows he does.

Yea, but an ITT when you are already WC that late in the season makes no sense. But Money talks...

 

[Oldermanish]

Yea, but an ITT when you are already WC that late in the season makes no sense. But Money talks...

Pros likey da' monay.

 

[CHGJ2000]

The idea that Remco got any significant fatigue that would impact his goals for 2024 is pretty ridiculous tbh. It's a bit of z2 for a week, some warm up efforts for the TT and then one hard effort. If he was a guy that would find that fatiguing in any manner, he simply wouldn't be a top professional. Got a big chunk of change in the bank, tested some new TT equipment and got another outing in the rainbow jersey. Seems worth it.

 

[red_flanders]

The idea that Remco got any significant fatigue that would impact his goals for 2024 is pretty ridiculous tbh. It's a bit of z2 for a week, some warm up efforts for the TT and then one hard effort. If he was a guy that would find that fatiguing in any manner, he simply wouldn't be a top professional. Got a big chunk of change in the bank, tested some new TT equipment and got another outing in the rainbow jersey. Seems worth it.

Agree, laughable.

 

[scribers]

Remco is a single peak rider. At least considering his results. I wouldn’t be surprised if he finds himself up at the tour

 

[Berniece]

Remco is a single peak rider. At least considering his results. I wouldn’t be surprised if he finds himself up at the tour

What do you mean with single peak. In a season?

2022: LBL and Vuelta
2023: LBL/Giro and WC TT

 

[wheresmybrakes]

What do you mean with single peak. In a season?

2022: LBL and Vuelta
2023: LBL/Giro and WC TT

Do you really need to go on a peak for one, one day race? With one of those only being about a 40k long ITT.

 

[Berniece]

Do you really need to go on a peak for one, one day race? With one of those only being about a 40k long ITT.

He also won San Sebastian, but a lot of people peak for one, one day race. MVDP won WC like that

 

[scribers]

Remco comes busting out of the gates on his single peak. When he focuses on the tour I would not count him out against the best

 

[CHGJ2000]

Do you really need to go on a peak for one, one day race? With one of those only being about a 40k long ITT.

UK Hill climbers have really been wasting their time it seems. They do a massive peak for one usually 500-4000m TT.

Yes, generally if you want to do your absolute best at any performance regardless of length you need to peak for it. That's not a real question.

 

[red_flanders]

Do you really need to go on a peak for one, one day race? With one of those only being about a 40k long ITT.

Yes of course, riders do it all the time. A peak is simply the best version of your form. This year he planned to peak for the Giro and the Worlds. He was absolutely flying in the Giro, and won the Worlds against an in-form Ganna. Trying to extend that Worlds peak to the Vuelta didn't work, there was just too much competition.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Yes of course, riders do it all the time. A peak is simply the best version of your form. This year he planned to peak for the Giro and the Worlds. He was absolutely flying in the Giro, and won the Worlds against an in-form Ganna. Trying to extend that Worlds peak to the Vuelta didn't work, there was just too much competition.

Worth noting as well that Remco inferred that his peak at worlds was far high than the start of the giro. Regarding his pacing plan said that the opening Giro TT was around what he planned whereas worlds he said he was consistently 20w above what he had on the schedule. Now diamonds in the legs days aren’t necessarily just a result of a planned peak as we’ve seen many times but it does show he was pretty much at his best ever there.

 

[Extinction]

The idea that Remco got any significant fatigue that would impact his goals for 2024 is pretty ridiculous tbh. It's a bit of z2 for a week, some warm up efforts for the TT and then one hard effort. If he was a guy that would find that fatiguing in any manner, he simply wouldn't be a top professional. Got a big chunk of change in the bank, tested some new TT equipment and got another outing in the rainbow jersey. Seems worth it.

I wasn't of course implying that physical fatigue was an issue, but do think it was an unnessecary mental effort at the end of the long season.

 

[red_flanders]

Remco’s certainly the beat TTer in the world this year considering he is at least in the convo as best flat TTer while being a much better climber than Ganna and Tarling but some of this analysis needs to be contextualised with the fact that Tarling has major kit and minor position changes immediately after worlds that Bigham said resulted in a >10w gain in aero. Just that and an equal performance would have put him around Ganna at worlds, then you have whatever he lost from not having a PM and trying to get it connected for over a KM.

I'm sure that's all true, but not sure why my comments "need to be contextualized". Sure, Tarling looks awesome. We can add him to the conversation as soon as he beats an in-form Ganna and Remco in at least one race that matters. Don't think it's going to be a long wait but it's not happened yet.

 

[red_flanders]

I wasn't of course implying that physical fatigue was an issue, but do think it was an unnessecary mental effort at the end of the long season.

Can't see why that would matter, he's got a long winter to recover. He wanted to showcase the jersey. Seems totally normal and a nothing-burger as far as accumulated fatigue, mental or otherwise.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wasn't of course implying that physical fatigue was an issue, but do think it was an unnessecary mental effort at the end of the long season.

No worries. The merger didn't happen so instead of starvation camps with Skeletor Remco will be eating pizzas for two months with the consent of the Old Man. He will be mentally fresh as a daisy.

 

[CHGJ2000]

I'm sure that's all true, but not sure why my comments "need to be contextualized". Sure, Tarling looks awesome. We can add him to the conversation as soon as he beats an in-form Ganna and Remco in at least one race that matters. Don't think it's going to be a long wait but it's not happened yet.

Because the point was if he had the setup he got immediately after worlds at worlds, he would have been extremely close to Remco and Ganna. So the point that he only beat Remco at Chrono des Nations (took all of two attempts) is a little moot. TT'ing is fundamentally linked to equipment and it took Tarling getting 3rd at worlds for him to be given something even in the same stratosphere of the level of support that Remco and Ganna had.

 

[red_flanders]

Because the point was if he had the setup he got immediately after worlds at worlds, he would have been extremely close to Remco and Ganna. So the point that he only beat Remco at Chrono des Nations (took all of two attempts) is a little moot. TT'ing is fundamentally linked to equipment and it took Tarling getting 3rd at worlds for him to be given something even in the same stratosphere of the level of support that Remco and Ganna had.

Understood your point. Just wasn’t understanding why my comments about Remco and Ganna “needed to be contextualized” with comments about Tarling. He’s a phenom, but he ain’t there yet. Beat those two on form in an A race and we can talk. I’m sure he will soon enough. But he hasn’t yet, so he’s not in the conversation.

 

[Berniece]

He is already getting ready for it