Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[hayneplane]

he's already going all in on the classics this year by doing the Ardennes triple

All in on the classics would mean doing MSR and RVV as well.

Ardennes plus Tour has historically been very common a schedule.

 

[scribers]

wouldn't take much of a schedule change for Remco and Lefevre to get their way

skip Pais Vasco and the Dauphine and go to the giro. Ardennes would provide a good warm up

What lefevre meant to say was he was going to be given a lot of money to make sure remco went to the giro

 

[Berniece]

All in on the classics would mean doing MSR and RVV as well.

Ardennes plus Tour has historically been very common a schedule.

The only rider I know that goes all-in on ALL classics is Pogacar. How many times did Valverde ride RVV and MSR?

 

[Extinction]

Remco fanboys are stating Remco could win one day races against MvdP and Poggi.
If Remco could train specially for that race and peaking, while MvdP and Poggi isn't at their peaks.
MvdP and Poggi wins big one day races even though they aren't at their peak level

Liege should resolve the issue, Pog shall be in top form.

 

[Extinction]

In a flat sprint in Liege, Pogacar would probably defeat Evenepoel. But I don't think Pogacar and Evenepoel (both in topshape) could destroy each other in the Liege-climbs. Probably also giving the opportunity to less strong riders to come back in the final (Pogacar and Evenepoel controling each other) and jump away in the final km or outsprint Pogacar and Evenepoel.

What I think is that if Evenepoel or Pogacar (in topshape) succeed to attack and ride single during the last 20, 30 or 40 km, no one would be able to come back. Not Roglic, Vingegaard, Van Aert etc. Especially when the opponents have been beaten apart. Maybe a coalition of half a Visma-, Emirates-(of course not chasing Pogacar), Astana- or Movistar- team could.

At the end of a monument, I agree, Pog probably has more speed, but Remco showed last year he's not slow either.

 

[Taxus4a]

Very bad idea to do Giro-Tour before his first ever tour participation.

We, and he, need to see where he stacks up against the GC titans in the Tour after doing a full specific buildup for the event to get a sense of whether he can do it or should go all in on the one day classics and place less focus on the Tour for GC.

For Indurain to do the Giro was a good build up for le Tour. His team mate Mikel Landa, was at his best shape on le Tour after to do a good paper at le Giro. He was at the end one of the best climbers, better than Roglic, and one of the best climbers of le Tour, just one second from the podium, with the order to dont attack from SKY. And between both races he was runner up ITT champion of Spain, in an ITT quite flat at the wind of Soria. I had the oportunity to talk with Mikel about that the nest Vuelta a Burgos, when he started still very strong. Maybe Mikel talked to Remco about that experience for him...and if you see Sep Kuss...he was working hard three GY last year, winning the last one.
You never knows...this year Giro is no so hard.
Quite surprising it finally happens, but better to try 2 than one, and maybe is better for his built up.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Considering the TT kilometres involved and if Pogi wouldn't be going, then it sort of could make sense to do Giro in 2024 season. I knew at least one of big 4 will do Giro in 2024. Still, after doing Giro 2024 i doubt it would be a good idea, for Remco to do the Tour after. Considering last year he did Giro-Vuelta double and at second GT Remco was struggling. So one GT per season for now makes most sense to me. For Pogi we will see in 2024 season, considering it's his first double, on how it will affect him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Considering the TT kilometres involved and if Pogi wouldn't be going, then it sort of could make sense to do Giro in 2024 season. I knew at least one of big 4 will do Giro in 2024. Still, after doing Giro 2024 i doubt it would be a good idea, for Remco to do the Tour after. Considering last year he did Giro-Vuelta double and at second GT Remco was struggling. So one GT per season for now makes most sense to me. For Pogi we will see in 2024, considering it's his first double.

He shouldn't do the Giro. But him struggling in the Vuelta last year was not because he raced 10 days in the Giro.

 

[proffate]

In a flat sprint in Liege, Pogacar would probably defeat Evenepoel. But I don't think Pogacar and Evenepoel (both in topshape) could destroy each other in the Liege-climbs. Probably also giving the opportunity to less strong riders to come back in the final (Pogacar and Evenepoel controling each other) and jump away in the final km or outsprint Pogacar and Evenepoel.

What I think is that if Evenepoel or Pogacar (in topshape) succeed to attack and ride single during the last 20, 30 or 40 km, no one would be able to come back. Not Roglic, Vingegaard, Van Aert etc. Especially when the opponents have been beaten apart. Maybe a coalition of half a Visma-, Emirates-(of course not chasing Pogacar), Astana- or Movistar- team could.

I've got a hard time imagining those riders letting others come back. They're neither one very cagey. I see them both riding hard and trying to go solo, but with or without success they will still ride hard.

I rate remcos chances in a 2 up break bc even if Pog gets a gap, Remco is probably better at the long solo effort, and if they are together then Remco gets a lot better draft than vice versa. Pog advantage only on mtf.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He shouldn't do the Giro. But him struggling in the Vuelta last year was not because he raced 10 days in the Giro.

Considering Pogi is doing the Giro i feel that it kinda makes sense to do the Tour in 2024 season. Otherwise it would in my opinion be a rather good opportunity to try to claim the Giro in 2024 season and to go to the Tour next season.

As for the second part, people seem to assume it's rather ordinary, to perform good at two GTs per season. Reality being here we likely don't have top 4, but less.

 

[red_flanders]

Remco has a solid program to tackle the Tour this year. Adding the Giro just adds complications. It's workable, but has no clear advantages, with plenty of potential disadvantages, including with the team.

They have it right. Ride on.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Considering Pogi is doing the Giro i feel that it kinda makes sense to do the Tour in 2024 season. Otherwise it would in my opinion be a rather good opportunity to try to claim the Giro in 2024 season and to go to the Tour next season.

As for the second part, people seem to assume it's rather ordinary, to perform good at two GTs per season. Reality being here we likely don't have top 4, but less.

Oh yeah, those 10 days absolutely killed his chances for the Vuelta. Preparing for an almost pan flat to compete against Ganna had nothing to do with it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Oh yeah, those 10 days absolutely killed his chances for the Vuelta. Preparing for an almost pan flat to compete against Ganna had nothing to do with it.

Oh yeah, some excuse.

Currently we are at best at two and Remco isn't one of them. Riders being able to target a double and coming close to winning both. Season 2024 should offer some opportunities, considering Rogla, Pogi and Jonas are all likely doing the double. Maybe one of them can even pull it off. The interesting thing here being it can only be one per season. There isn't a room for two.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Oh yeah, some excuse.

And some excuse Roglic couldn’t do it due to his mistakes.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And some excuse Roglic couldn’t do it due to his mistakes.

So you wouldn't put Rogla in top tier, when it comes to a GT double? Who would you put in top tier selection then?

 

[SHAD0W93]

So you wouldn't put Rogla in top tier, when it comes to a GT double? Who would you put in top tier selection then?

I never said I wouldn’t because he has shown he is but you’re saying 10 stages in the Giro without any hard days is why Evenepoel faltered at the Vuelta which isn’t the case. Maybe Roglic can’t pull a double off in terms of winning both due to his own mistakes and crashing himself.

 

[red_flanders]

I've got a hard time imagining those riders letting others come back. They're neither one very cagey. I see them both riding hard and trying to go solo, but with or without success they will still ride hard.

I rate remcos chances in a 2 up break bc even if Pog gets a gap, Remco is probably better at the long solo effort, and if they are together then Remco gets a lot better draft than vice versa. Pog advantage only on mtf.

Good points about how they'd ride together, very much agree. My only minor disagreement, and it's one of degrees, is your rating of Remco's odds vs Pogi in such a break. It would be quite difficult for Remco to drop him, and I think Pogi also has him (closely) in a flat sprint to the line. I'm not saying Remco can't win, he could drop Pogi at some point in the finale, but if they broke away together on the Redoute, I'd bet on Pogi to win it.

 

[shadowrider]

Way too long, way too many hairs being split, and too many strawmen.

I’m sure someone will argue with you. 😂

I don't agree. It's a 100 % correct analysis written by Logic.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't agree. It's a 100 % correct analysis written by Logic.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[proffate]

Good points about how they'd ride together, very much agree. My only minor disagreement, and it's one of degrees, is your rating of Remco's odds vs Pogi in such a break. It would be quite difficult for Remco to drop him, and I think Pogi also has him (closely) in a flat sprint to the line. I'm not saying Remco can't win, he could drop Pogi at some point in the finale, but if they broke away together on the Redoute, I'd bet on Pogi to win it.

Yea, I don't think Remco drops him, I just think Pog is working harder to sit on Remco's wheel due to the size disparity. In theory this allows Remco to arrive fresher to the finish, but that's certainly no guarantee of success. I would be happy if this fantasy scenario played out at all, no matter how it ended.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I never said I wouldn’t because he has shown he is but you’re saying 10 stages in the Giro without any hard days is why Evenepoel faltered at the Vuelta which isn’t the case. Maybe Roglic can’t pull a double off in terms of winning both due to his own mistakes and crashing himself.

It's in my opinion not about 10 stages (give or take), it's about the preparation and racing as a whole. So in my opinion much more was involved than 10 stages we got to see on the TV.

 

[Oldermanish]

Did you quote the wrong post?
Because I have no idea what these guys are doing in a reply to my post about comparing Remco and Dumoulin and what you are trying to say with this?

Sorry, I did. Thought maybe you were following up this post:

DNP-Old said:
Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic, Pidcock, Philipsen, Ganna, A. Yates, De Lie, Hirschi, Skjelmose, Almeida, Kooij, Jakobsen, Ayuso, Rodriguez, Laporte, Kuss, Vlasov combined victories this season: 0.
Evenepoel victories this season: 1.

We are not the same.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's in my opinion not about 10 stages (give or take), it's about the preparation and racing as a whole. So in my opinion much more was involved than 10 stages we got to see on the TV.

That's correct, but it's still not the reason why he bonked in the Vuelta.

 

[Extinction]

That's correct, but it's still not the reason why he bonked in the Vuelta.

He bonked in the Vuelta, because the team prioritized the IWTT. Remco himself said that was the goal. Ve bene, allright, but you can't enter the Vuelta against Visma with that in mind.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Still, Remco doesn't yet qualify as being a GT doubler and top tier at it. For that he will need to show more in this discipline. From stage hunting point of view it wasn't bad at all, from GC point of view currently no.

Currently Rogla, Jonas and up to a point Sepp can be considered members of this exclusive club. Froome i guess still needs to be acknowledged. The rest still have some work left to do, before they get an invitation.