Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Froome]

hard to know if he is better than first 10 days of 2022 Vuelta (pre-crash) - we will see.

I think he is, but obviously the field here is better.
Probably on Galibier he did one of his best perfomances in his career, in the mountains.

 

[Le Grand Doop]

His position is one thing. What makes it so impressive is that he barely moves around on his bike, stays perfectly still, while putting out insane power. And the fact that he can keep in this position for entire TT's.

and stays in that position even on 6% slopes. I believe that ability is rare.

 

[velaso montador]

His position is one thing. What makes it so impressive is that he barely moves around on his bike, stays perfectly still, while putting out insane power. And the fact that he can keep in this position for entire TT's.

His position aswell is perfection. But even more so thats what I mean by work of true perfection. One thing is to nail a position a completely different thing is to sustain it in long and entire TT's thats something completely different.

Truly beautiful to watch him TT so should be the case for everyone who appriciate greatness.

 

[Barkintheeye]

He goes into corners completely wrong. He actually takes MORE risks by going into corners the way he does.

Because the trajectory outward is bound to go wider when you move to the inside too soon, which he does. He takes his corners slower and more dangerously. He needs to stick to the outside corner WAY longer. First of all, you get a much better overview of the corner and the way the road bends going out of the corner, secondly you get to brake later and keep your speed higher throughout the corner and lastly you are reducing the risk going wide out of the corner by a shitton.

These are all things the team said they'd make sure to teach him back in 2021, and supposedly he'd get some lessons by Cal Crutchlow in cornering at high speeds (which would help him out a ton in both descends as well as TT's). Never happened. They thought his technique was good enough. Had it been good enough, he would hardly have not lost time to Pogacar after Galibier other than boni seconds, and he would have taken more time in the TT. A difference between being 33s behind in GC, or being 5s ahead in GC. But everything is fine.

Here is a rudimentary graphic to show what happens. The green and red lines are identical in curve. The green one maximizes the corner and will give you the shortest distance for the highest speed, good overview and less risk. If you try to retain that speed (both in and out of the corner) while cutting into your corner too soon, which i have seen Evenepoel do repeatedly, what happens is you go wide and crash out of the corner. The only way to make up for that (green dotted line), is by braking much harder into the corner (or go into the corner at a much lower speed), losing all your momentum going out of the corner, because you need to take the second part of your corner much tighter, and waste a lot more energy accelerating out of the corner. All the while you have a worse overview of where your corner is going.

He takes more risks, he loses a lot of speed, he wastes a lot of energy.

I’m really looking forward to tomorrow. Very interesting to see if he can handle some high speed gravel and if his competitors will try to put him to the test. You’re probably right about his cornering and getting it wrong on gravel will take an even bigger toll. Exciting stage ahead!

 

[topt]

There are five stages with mountain finishes (11, 14, 15, 19 +20). If he can beat Pogacar and Vingegaard on these stages he will deserve to win. But their record on mountain finishes is excellent and well-established.

you can say same even for Rogla and yes if he can win this stages he deserves to win and I will delete my account cause I than obviously know nothing about cycling

 

[peterfin]

He goes into corners completely wrong. He actually takes MORE risks by going into corners the way he does.

Because the trajectory outward is bound to go wider when you move to the inside too soon, which he does. He takes his corners slower and more dangerously. He needs to stick to the outside corner WAY longer. First of all, you get a much better overview of the corner and the way the road bends going out of the corner, secondly you get to brake later and keep your speed higher throughout the corner and lastly you are reducing the risk going wide out of the corner by a shitton.

These are all things the team said they'd make sure to teach him back in 2021, and supposedly he'd get some lessons by Cal Crutchlow in cornering at high speeds (which would help him out a ton in both descends as well as TT's). Never happened. They thought his technique was good enough. Had it been good enough, he would hardly have not lost time to Pogacar after Galibier other than boni seconds, and he would have taken more time in the TT. A difference between being 33s behind in GC, or being 5s ahead in GC. But everything is fine.

Here is a rudimentary graphic to show what happens. The green and red lines are identical in curve. The green one maximizes the corner and will give you the shortest distance for the highest speed, good overview and less risk. If you try to retain that speed (both in and out of the corner) while cutting into your corner too soon, which i have seen Evenepoel do repeatedly, what happens is you go wide and crash out of the corner. The only way to make up for that (green dotted line), is by braking much harder into the corner (or go into the corner at a much lower speed), losing all your momentum going out of the corner, because you need to take the second part of your corner much tighter, and waste a lot more energy accelerating out of the corner. All the while you have a worse overview of where your corner is going.

He takes more risks, he loses a lot of speed, he wastes a lot of energy.

I will invite Remco to play Gran Turismo on the playstation during his break. That's basic cornering for anyone who races a car or bike. It's a typical mistake amateurs make. It's probably part of the issue. I have seen him making this error in the past. On the other hand, if you follow others you learn to follow the proper line. I also think he slows down too much when he is decending alone in a chase to have more margin for error. Fear of crashing (again) is definitely part of the issue as his said himself.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I will invite Remco to play Gran Turismo on the playstation during his break. That's basic cornering for anyone who races a car or bike. It's a typical mistake amateurs make. It's probably part of the issue. I have seen him making this error in the past. On the other hand, if you follow others you learn to follow the proper line. I also think he slows down too much when he is decending alone in a chase to have more margin for error. Fear of crashing (again) is definitely part of the issue as his said himself.

The irony is that slowing down and moving to the inside corner is a typical behaviour fuelled by fear which can lead to grave consequences. You think going slow is safer, and you think going to the inside corner is safer than the outside corner, because you can't fly out of the corner on the inside. The problem occurs in the second part of the corner, then you are faced with all the problems. The chosen line basically pushes you off the road unless you start to brake even harder (which in turn might result in slipping), and assuming you don't crash, your speed is now so low, you have lost all momentum and need to put a lot of effort into getting back to speed while bleeding 5s per corner easily. It is also much harder to recover and the margin to adapt halfway the bend has completely disappeared.

Gran Turismo could be a good idea, but even better would be a weekend on a racetrack.

 

[peterfin]

Remco says he is a fan of the gravel race tomorrow. He looks forward to it. He knows the difficult sectors. He is also a bit nervous because he knows anything can happen and GC riders are at risk of losing time.

 

[Sciatic]

Remco says he is a fan of the gravel race tomorrow. He looks forward to it. He knows the difficult sectors. He is also a bit nervous because he knows anything can happen and GC riders are at risk of losing time.

He is projecting a good attitude—perhaps he’s had some more media training or just grown up a bit more. Even if he doesn’t like the stage, this is a better way to frame it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's now saying what happened in the Giro Strade stage back in 2021 was because he didn't have the legs. I hope he doesn't actually believe that. Because it would be another fine example of him and the team sticking their heads in the sand. Weight is never a problem, cornering is not a problem anymore, gravel was not a problem. I know he did a gravel race with Cattaneo (i think) two years ago in the US when they went to the Specialized HQ for windtunnel testing, so i hope he picked up the basics there and will be fine tomorrow, but what happened in '21 was definitely not just lack of form. In fact you could see it coming a mile away based on the gravel stage in 2019 in Adriatica Ionica where he crashed on the gravel sectors, and was completely helpless. It's where he lost the GC of Adriatica Ionica. I remember a comment from Sénéchal who said he had no idea what he was doing. Perhaps with a better form he could have made up for his poor gravel racing, but that is not the same thing. Hopefully he's just saying that to the press but knows better.

Let's hope tomorrow he'll be fine and he actually learned from past mistakes and that gravel race in the US has actually helped.

 

[jono]

He's now saying what happened in the Giro Strade stage back in 2021 was because he didn't have the legs. I hope he doesn't actually believe that. Because it would be another fine example of him and the team sticking their heads in the sand. Weight is never a problem, cornering is not a problem anymore, gravel was not a problem. I know he did a gravel race with Cattaneo (i think) two years ago in the US when they went to the Specialized HQ for windtunnel testing, so i hope he picked up the basics there and will be fine tomorrow, but what happened in '21 was definitely not just lack of form. In fact you could see it coming a mile away based on the gravel stage in 2019 in Adriatica Ionica where he crashed on the gravel sectors, and was completely helpless. It's where he lost the GC of Adriatica Ionica. I remember a comment from Sénéchal who said he had no idea what he was doing. Perhaps with a better form he could have made up for his poor gravel racing, but that is not the same thing. Hopefully he's just saying that to the press but knows better.

Let's hope tomorrow he'll be fine and he actually learned from past mistakes and that gravel race in the US has actually helped.

He raced the middle distance (not the competitive distance) at Belgian Waffle Ride Kansas and finished 6th behind a YouTube journalist and some other not particularly impressive racers. I suppose he might have learned a few tricks but he was hardly racing in anger that day.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He raced the middle distance (not the competitive distance) at Belgian Waffle Ride Kansas and finished 6th behind a YouTube journalist and some other not particularly impressive racers. I suppose he might have learned a few tricks but he was hardly racing in anger that day.

I see it was 111km. I don't know whether the entire length was gravel, or if there were large parts on concrete roads, but i hope he at least learned sòmething from it. It will at least have doubled or tripled his gravel experience by riding it.

 

[jono]

I see it was 111km. I don't know whether the entire length was gravel, or if there were large parts on concrete roads, but i hope he at least learned sòmething from it. It will at least have doubled or tripled his gravel experience by riding it.

The BWR courses (this is a race series held in different parts of the USA) tend to have a mix of pavement, gravel, and other off-road sections, but I believe the Kansas course is 90% gravel.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Apart from the gravel though, Remco should be really good in this kind of terrain. He has ridden away on stuff like this countless times, so if he the gravel is down, why not go for a little dig towards the end?

 

[AmRacer]

Apart from the gravel though, Remco should be really good in this kind of terrain. He has ridden away on stuff like this countless times, so if he the gravel is down, why not go for a little dig towards the end?

Which one off the other three will he drop?

 

[peterfin]

Which one off the other three will he drop?

All of them

 

[Mayomaniac]

He's now saying what happened in the Giro Strade stage back in 2021 was because he didn't have the legs. I hope he doesn't actually believe that. Because it would be another fine example of him and the team sticking their heads in the sand. Weight is never a problem, cornering is not a problem anymore, gravel was not a problem. I know he did a gravel race with Cattaneo (i think) two years ago in the US when they went to the Specialized HQ for windtunnel testing, so i hope he picked up the basics there and will be fine tomorrow, but what happened in '21 was definitely not just lack of form. In fact you could see it coming a mile away based on the gravel stage in 2019 in Adriatica Ionica where he crashed on the gravel sectors, and was completely helpless. It's where he lost the GC of Adriatica Ionica. I remember a comment from Sénéchal who said he had no idea what he was doing. Perhaps with a better form he could have made up for his poor gravel racing, but that is not the same thing. Hopefully he's just saying that to the press but knows better.

Let's hope tomorrow he'll be fine and he actually learned from past mistakes and that gravel race in the US has actually helped.

Moscon might be crucial on today's stage. Him and Lampaert will have to do th heavy lifting to keep him safe. So far the former has been really solid overall.

 

[chickenlips]

Being in QS, I would have assumed they would have practiced riding on gravel and cobbles numerous times, especially in the run up to the Tour, knowing they would be riding on the stuff. They practice mountains and ITT's etc, I would hope gravel too.

 

[Berniece]

Being in QS, I would have assumed they would have practiced riding on gravel and cobbles numerous times, especially in the run up to the Tour, knowing they would be riding on the stuff. They practice mountains and ITT's etc, I would hope gravel too.

They checked it out twice

 

[steffr222]

I remember him in Valenciana a few years ago, when he was absolutely awful on that gravel stage (MTF it was), think Vlasov won that stage back then.

I really hope Remco doesn’t lose too much today, I can see a bunch sprint anyway though

 

[Berniece]

I remember him in Valenciana a few years ago, when he was absolutely awful on that gravel stage (MTF it was), think Vlasov won that stage back then.

Had more to do with form, because like you said it was just uphill gravel

 

[Le Grand Doop]

I remember him in Valenciana a few years ago, when he was absolutely awful on that gravel stage (MTF it was), think Vlasov won that stage back then.

I really hope Remco doesn’t lose too much today, I can see a bunch sprint anyway though

tho gravel is definitely a weakness, I agree -- I think that time was mostly due to it being early season Fatco. he actually initially tried to come after Vlasov on the pebbles (ahead of others) but then really blew up on the steep tarmac that followed, IIRC.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I remember him in Valenciana a few years ago, when he was absolutely awful on that gravel stage (MTF it was), think Vlasov won that stage back then.

I really hope Remco doesn’t lose too much today, I can see a bunch sprint anyway though

He weighed 68.5kg at the time.
Just to be clear, this is NOT a joke.

 

[James M]

Never change Evenpoel! What a gutsy style and offensive this is what people like to see.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Grande Remco.