The Schleck Bros

[luckyboy]

I have a TdF guide from a few seasons back that listed him as a future contender too :s

 

[craig1985]

Armstrong also said in 2007-08 that Stijn Devolder would be a grand tour contender.

He also rubbished Cunego. I suppose on the law of averages you are bound to get one or two right.

 

[issoisso]

He also rubbished Cunego. I suppose on the law of averages you are bound to get one or two right.

And before that, he had said Cunego was the future of cycling.

It's Armstrong. What did you expect?

 

[blackcat]

And before that, he had said Cunego was the future of cycling.

It's Armstrong. What did you expect?

I reckon Devolder could be a GT contendor with Bruyneel. Just like Rogers.

How many riders could win a GT with Bruyneel and Ferrari?

Augustyn, Froome, Wiggins, Thomas, Gesink, Menchov, Nibali, Kreuziger, Andy Schleck, Evans, Basso, Cancellara, Fuglsang, Rogers, Lovqvist, Martin, Leipheimer, Vino, Kashechkin, Moncoutie, Devolder, Martin, Vande Velde,

 

[Cerberus]

I reckon Devolder could be a GT contendor with Bruyneel. Just like Rogers.

How many riders could win a GT with Bruyneel and Ferrari?

Augustyn, Froome, Wiggins, Thomas, Gesink, Menchov, Nibali, Kreuziger, Andy Schleck, Evans, Basso, Cancellara, Fuglsang, Rogers, Lovqvist, Martin, Leipheimer, Vino, Kashechkin, Moncoutie, Devolder, Martin, Vande Velde,

How do you know that some of these people aren't already on a program that's just as good as Bruyneels, and that this isn't just how good they are? Besides on that list Menchov, Vino and Basso already have won GTs, and Andy Schleck certainly would be the favourite for any GT that didn't have Contador in it.

 

[craig1985]

Even with a good program I doubt Moncoutie (and I think he is clean/er) could win a GT. He is either off the front or at the back of the peloton because he is scared of riding in the middle, rubbish at going downhill (in fact in his early years he had to stop to put a jacket on before he went downhill) and the less about his TT the better.

Gilbert said so himself several years ago, that even with all the dope in the world he would never win a GT.

 

[blackcat]

How do you know that some of these people aren't already on a program that's just as good as Bruyneels, and that this isn't just how good they are? Besides on that list Menchov, Vino and Basso already have won GTs, and Andy Schleck certainly would be the favourite for any GT that didn't have Contador in it.

You just need to check the Tour de France team timetrials over the past decade, to discern the best team medical programs. I call this, "The team timetrial medical program maxim".

One exception, a Credit Agricole team circa 2001, with Moreau, Hushovd, O'Grady, Julich, Voigt, Vaughters, plus an inconspicuous NZ rider, and forgetting the two others at the moment. Jens ofcourse, did not have to bury his perfluorocarbons in the Tour.

 

[blackcat]

Even with a good program I doubt Moncoutie (and I think he is clean/er) could win a GT. He is either off the front or at the back of the peloton because he is scared of riding in the middle, rubbish at going downhill (in fact in his early years he had to stop to put a jacket on before he went downhill) and the less about his TT the better.

Gilbert said so himself several years ago, that even with all the dope in the world he would never win a GT.

we are assuming Moncoutie rectifies his neuroses.

 

[craig1985]

You just need to check the Tour de France team timetrials over the past decade, to discern the best team medical programs. I call this, "The team timetrial medical program maxim".

One exception, a Credit Agricole team circa 2001, with Moreau, Hushovd, O'Grady, Julich, Voigt, Vaughters, plus an inconspicuous NZ rider, and forgetting the two others at the moment. Jens ofcourse, did not have to bury his perfluorocarbons in the Tour.

If CA were on the program in 2001 when they won the TTT, why didn't they give Vaughters the cortisone to heal his wasp sting? I mean other riders (and his words, a top rider) were riding alongside him and mocking him for being on the wrong team because on their team they would of said he had a knee injury (when he didn't) to take cortisone.

That NZ bloke (Chris Jenner) also rode under a French licence at the time.

 

[Cerberus]

You just need to check the Tour de France team timetrials over the past decade, to discern the best team medical programs. I call this, "The team timetrial medical program maxim".

Well that doesn't really demonstrate whether the program is better, it could just be applied to more riders, and it doesn't show the difference between hiring strong riders and using lots of doping.

Still I think you have a point about TTs. it would be interesting to track whether TT performances systematically went up, when riders signed up with certain teams. Of cause that could just be because some DS were very motivational or good at using wind tunnels. It doesn't have to be because of Doping..... (Ok. I'll be serious now).

One exception, a Credit Agricole team circa 2001, with Moreau, Hushovd, O'Grady, Julich, Voigt, Vaughters, plus an inconspicuous NZ rider, and forgetting the two others at the moment. Jens ofcourse, did not have to bury his perfluorocarbons in the Tour.

I'm not sure I follow you there. Are you saying that they weren't doped, or at least particularly doped even though they won or what? And what's that about perfluorocarbons?

 

[craig1985]

Something about hiding dope under the ground's surface IIRC. I think that is in reference to the 2003 Tour.

 

[blackcat]

If CA were on the program in 2001 when they won the TTT, why didn't they give Vaughters the cortisone to heal his wasp sting? I mean other riders (and his words, a top rider) were riding alongside him and mocking him for being on the wrong team because on their team they would of said he had a knee injury (when he didn't) to take cortisone.

That NZ bloke (Chris Jenner) also rode under a French licence at the time.

what part of the term "exception" do you not understand?

 

[blackcat]

Something about hiding dope under the ground's surface IIRC. I think that is in reference to the 2003 Tour.

1998 Tour, with Gan.

 

[blackcat]

Well that doesn't really demonstrate whether the program is better, it could just be applied to more riders, and it doesn't show the difference between hiring strong riders and using lots of doping.

Still I think you have a point about TTs. it would be interesting to track whether TT performances systematically went up, when riders signed up with certain teams. Of cause that could just be because some DS were very motivational or good at using wind tunnels. It doesn't have to be because of Doping..... (Ok. I'll be serious now).


I'm not sure I follow you there. Are you saying that they weren't doped, or at least particularly doped even though they won or what? And what's that about perfluorocarbons?

Ofcourse you can manipulate the schema. Would the Disco TTT have been better with Padrnos or Cancellara? Nobel Prize for correct answer.

On CA. They were the "exception". But Jensie, he gets a great rap in the meedja, but don't believe him, he is a big time charger.

 

[craig1985]

what part of the term "exception" do you not understand?

I can't read

 

[Christian]

Well to get back to the topic of the Schlecks starting their own team next year (the other thread about this was closed), I noticed some interesting details:

Saxo Bank team cars have luxembourgish license plates (2 black letters and 4 numbers on yellow background, without any hyphen, typical for dutch license plates) in Paris-Nice, whereas they used to always have danish ones (red and white, of course). Now I don't know if they've been using those since the beginning of the season, but I'm quite certain that last season it was still danish ones.

Furthermore, the symbol of Luxair was to be seen on the cars, and I checked today on some pictures of the riders and it is also on the jerseys now (on the upper arm, rather small). This must also be a fairly recent development, since Luxair is not listed as an official sponsor on the team's website yet, and luxembourgish newspapers have not mentioned anything about a sponsoring contract yet.

Luxair would fit as a good sponsor for next year in my opinion, even though I could imagine the budget would be lower than Saxo Bank's. However I think it would be good publicity for Luxair, who fly only in Europe, and Saxo Bank races mostly in Europe. If they take Cargolux on board, one of the world's biggest freight companies, who flies all over the world, they would even benefit of publicity in California, Qatar, Australia and so on. I'm excited to see how things develop!

/edit: I just checked the rider-portraits (which were taken on Tenerifa) on their website and the Luxair logo is already on the jersey (left upper arm, under the Playitas logo)

 

[luckyboy]

Luxair were apparently on the jersey at the start of last season.

A post in the Saxo forum on Jan 12th 09 - "Thanks for the picture. Luxair also disappeared from the jersey. It was placed next to the Specialized 'S' on the left chest.
The logo also was deleted from the sponsors list, where it was already listed early January"

The only picture I could find of the proposed jersey with Luxair is this..

From this article.

 

[Christian]

Thanks, I never noticed that!

 

[craig1985]

Just read your sig Christian and it cracked me up. Oh how I love Jens Voigt.

 

[blackcat]

Voigt overrated. Wish someone would put him in his box.

 

[Jamsque]

Voigt overrated. Wish someone would put him in his box.

How can you possibly be hating on Jens Voigt? Are you crazy or something? And I don't see how you can call the guy over-rated, pretty much all of his wins have been surprises, he is basically never a favourite (except for the Criterium International)

 

[blackcat]

How can you possibly be hating on Jens Voigt? Are you crazy or something? And I don't see how you can call the guy over-rated, pretty much all of his wins have been surprises, he is basically never a favourite (except for the Criterium International)

cos reality does not much the perception.

 

[bobbins]

Is this the team that Kim Anderson is supposed to be starting up and taking one of his former colleagues at CSC?

 

[vala-vala]

OOHHHH, I hope a new LUXAIR-Specialized Cycling Team with Kim Andersen!!!!

 

[Jamsque]

Man, I know it makes sense for safety but I still hate it when they shorten stages. There might have been some really fast riding over the climbs in the first 30km with lots of people trying to get in a break.