"The stars of the Tour 2008 must tremble"

[Digger]

5 CSCs and 2 Columbias was the rumour. At Columbia I can't for the life of me think who the one besides Kirchen could be. 5 CSCs doesn't surprise me at all.

George Hincapie

 

[pmcg76]

A few people have raised these points already but I agree, I want to know what happened to the Giro re-tests that the AFLD have had for quite a while now.

The very scary idea is that if a lot of big names go down, it leaves the way open for RadioShack. How ridiculous would that be if Lance, Bruyneel and their gang are left as the last dopers standing due to missing the 08 Tour because of a previous dismeanor..

 

[rhubroma]

Euh, WTF?
Evans and Sastre are 2 riders who most people believe are clean. VDV has a pretty shady team history (USP, Saiz, Riis). And he's the only guy yo no no no no no?!?

I love speculation so I'll say:
sastre: no
menchov: yes
evans: no
vdv: yes
kirchen: yes
astarloza: yes
SCHUMACHER: yes
fschleck: yes
ashleck: don't want to think about it
nibali: Italian

So why Nibali (because Italian), but not Sastre (because Spanish). Whereas you presumably already placed Astarloza (because Spanish) on the list.?

Wasn't it in Spain where the biggest dope doctor since Ferrari was located?

 

[issoisso]

A few people have raised these points already but I agree, I want to know what happened to the Giro re-tests that the AFLD have had for quite a while now.

The very scary idea is that if a lot of big names go down, it leaves the way open for RadioShack. How ridiculous would that be if Lance, Bruyneel and their gang are left as the last dopers standing due to missing the 08 Tour because of a previous dismeanor..

The "French Anti-doping Agency", more commonly known as AFLD is in no way shape or form connected to the samples confirscated from the tour of Italy by the Italian police that the court of Genoa ordered be sent for re-testing

 

[Bala Verde]

5 CSCs and 2 Columbias was the rumour. At Columbia I can't for the life of me think who the one besides Kirchen could be. 5 CSCs doesn't surprise me at all.

Ciolek perhaps... he had some seriously good results that TdF

 

[pataphysician]

if you are calling out riders for national sins list should read:

I love speculation so I'll say:
sastre: spanish
menchov: russian(including kazakhs as russian for doping purposes)communist
evans: australian, founded as prison colony
vdv: American, BALCO was here, crashed global economy
kirchen: luxembourg, three from such a tiny country making this list can't be good.
astarloza: spanish, and already tested positive
SCHUMACHER: german, already tested dirty, Humanplasma plus WW2
fschleck: luxembourg, see above
ashleck: luxembourg, see above
nibali: Italian

So why Nibali (because Italian), but not Sastre (because Spanish). Whereas you presumably already placed Astarloza (because Spanish) on the list.?

Wasn't it in Spain where the biggest dope doctor since Ferrari was located?

but it is stupid to do in the first place.

 

[HL2037]

The very scary idea is that if a lot of big names go down, it leaves the way open for RadioShack. How ridiculous would that be if Lance, Bruyneel and their gang are left as the last dopers standing due to missing the 08 Tour because of a previous dismeanor..

The road is paved for Jan Ullrich's comeback!

 

[HL2037]

aschleck: Denial denial denial please-no-not-Andy denial

 

[issoisso]

Ciolek perhaps... he had some seriously good results that TdF

EPO wouldn't do anything for your sprinting prowess. The main reason why sprinters tend to be clean (other than a few using steroids)

 

[Bala Verde]

EPO wouldn't do anything for your sprinting prowess. The main reason why sprinters tend to be clean (other than a few using steroids)

Zabel admitted to using EPO

I aways thought that it would allow them to 'save more energy' during the stage, so that at the end they are not too tired to reach their max sprinting capacity.

It's one thing to sprint after 150km, another thing after 250km right?

 

[pataphysician]

The road is paved for Jan Ullrich's comeback!

If guys are coming out of retirement maybe Bjarne, Big Mig and Greg Lemond can hop back on the bike for a reunion of living, non banned winners since 1990.

 

[samb01]

if this ends up being true, not only will those teams probably fold, but it invalidates a significant part of cycling for the last two years.

Depends on who they are. It's one thing if Kirchen/Rogers/Hincapie test positive, it's quite another if Cavendish or Martin does

 

[Mellow Velo]

The scenario is quite obvious. Menchov and the Schlecks are nabbed. The RCS lose their Giro winner and have already lost Di Luted.
Upset, the RCS retaliate by getting the CONI mafia to pop a positive on "Bertie's beach blood", with the result that Armstrong is eventually crowned 2009 Tour champ,(April 2011, or there abouts) with Wiggins as RU.

They all lived unhappily, ever after.

 

[Alexzulle]

Did rogers even race the TDF in 2008?

I think the obvious ones are evans, sastre, schlecks, kirchen, cancellara (pretty much any CSC). Wouldn't be surprised if cavendish got nailed as the other columbia. Probably vandevelde as well.

This will pretty much end cycling as we know it. It will be completely thrown out of the 2012 olympics and sponsors will likely walk and be replaced by extremely low budget individual sponsor and Gianni Fazio will be crowned king of cycling teams (which I have no problem with, love that guy).

 

[Bala Verde]

Quickly put together a list of TdF 2008 with:
1) riders that secured a podium place for any of the stages (1,2,3). They should have samples of podium finishers right?
2) confirmed dopers, like Kohl, Ricco, Beltran, Duenas, Schumacher etc
3) top 15 GC
4) For some reason, I added Voigt, Astarloza, Egoi Martinez, Ten Dam, De la Fuente (and perhaps should have added some more GST riders)

Total 56 riders (40, excl the ones caught, were said to be 'suspect')

EVANS Cadel
MCEWEN Robbie
SASTRE CANDIL Carlos
ARVESEN Kurt-Asle
CANCELLARA Fabian
SCHLECK Andy
SCHLECK Frank
VOIGT Jens
ASTARLOZA Mikel
MARTINEZ Egoi
SANCHEZ Samuel
VALVERDE Alejandro
ARROYO DURAN David
SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon
KIRCHEN Kim
BURGHARDT Marcus
CAVENDISH Mark
CIOLEK Gerald
DUENAS NEVADO Moises
POZZATO Filippo
BELTRAN Manuel
KREUZIGER Roman
BALLAN Alessandro
HUSHOVD Thor
GERRANS Simon
BARREDO Carlos
STEEGMANS Gert
DESSEL Cyril
EFIMKIN Vladimir
ELMIGER Martin
VALJAVEC Tadej
SCHUMACHER Stefan
KOHL Bernhard
CASPER Jimmy
FEILLU Romain
MENCHOV Denis
FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar
TEN DAM Laurens
PINEAU Jérôme
ZABEL Erik
CASAR Sandy
CHAVANEL Sébastien
GILBERT Philippe
ROY Jérémy
RICCO Riccardo
COBO ACEBO Juan Jose
DE LA FUENTE David
PIEPOLI Leonardo
CHAVANEL Sylvain
DUMOULIN Samuel
DUQUE Leonardo
MOINARD Amaël
VANDEVELDE Christian
FRISCHKORN William
MILLAR David
PATE Danny

I wonder if we have seen some DNFs from people who were afraid of getting busted, after Ricco got caught.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

A few people have raised these points already but I agree, I want to know what happened to the Giro re-tests that the AFLD have had for quite a while now.

The very scary idea is that if a lot of big names go down, it leaves the way open for RadioShack. How ridiculous would that be if Lance, Bruyneel and their gang are left as the last dopers standing due to missing the 08 Tour because of a previous dismeanor..

Maybe someone can clarify? I don't believe the AFLD has anything to do with the 2008 Giro samples.

The last report I saw said the Italian Police were in possession of the samples and were to do testing on them as part of their investigation in to a doping ring in Padova.

The UCI was offered the chance to retest the 2008 Giro sample but refused - however when the Italian authorities stated they would retest them the UCI said that they now wished to test them!

 

[python]

The "French Anti-doping Agency", more court of Genoa ordered be sent for re-testing

i don't know. iirc, it was the public prosecutor of padova not genoa.

Maybe someone can clarify? I don't believe the AFLD has anything to do with the 2008 Giro samples.

iirc, rebellin’s cera positive at the olympics triggered the same prosecutor of padova to order the italian police to take custody of the giro samples. afld was tossed around at the time because they were the only nada owning a laboratory that invented that test for cera.

 

[Cobblestones]

So, two weeks from now? Just in time to keep us entertained during the off season.

 

[issoisso]

The AFLD doesn't own any labs. Labs are independent and may or may not be WADA accredited (those that test samples are all accredited). Samples are usually sent to the Châtenay-Malabry or Lausanne labs as they usually have the most qualified staff and the most cutting edge methods and equipment. Lausanne being the "top" lab.

The UCI was offered the chance to retest the 2008 Giro sample but refused - however when the Italian authorities stated they would retest them the UCI said that they now wished to test them!

Precisely. And they were sent to the Châtenay-Malabry lab for testing. That was a few days before the Giro. And we still haven't heard anything. Which is extremely suspicious

So, two weeks from now? Just in time to keep us entertained during the off season.

Something tells me it'll "blow up" either on the very day, or on the day after the Tour route presentation

 

[Digger]

Quickly put together a list of TdF 2008 with:
1) riders that secured a podium place for any of the stages (1,2,3). They should have samples of podium finishers right?
2) confirmed dopers, like Kohl, Ricco, Beltran, Duenas, Schumacher etc
3) top 15 GC
4) For some reason, I added Voigt, Astarloza, Egoi Martinez, Ten Dam, De la Fuente (and perhaps should have added some more GST riders)

Total 56 riders (40, excl the ones caught, were said to be 'suspect')

EVANS Cadel
MCEWEN Robbie
SASTRE CANDIL Carlos
ARVESEN Kurt-Asle
CANCELLARA Fabian
SCHLECK Andy
SCHLECK Frank
VOIGT Jens
ASTARLOZA Mikel
MARTINEZ Egoi
SANCHEZ Samuel
VALVERDE Alejandro
ARROYO DURAN David
SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon
KIRCHEN Kim
BURGHARDT Marcus
CAVENDISH MarkCIOLEK Gerald
DUENAS NEVADO Moises
POZZATO Filippo
BELTRAN Manuel
KREUZIGER Roman
BALLAN Alessandro
HUSHOVD Thor
GERRANS Simon
BARREDO Carlos
STEEGMANS Gert
DESSEL Cyril
EFIMKIN Vladimir
ELMIGER Martin
VALJAVEC Tadej
SCHUMACHER Stefan
KOHL Bernhard
CASPER Jimmy
FEILLU Romain
MENCHOV Denis
FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar
TEN DAM Laurens
PINEAU Jérôme
ZABEL Erik
CASAR Sandy
CHAVANEL Sébastien
GILBERT Philippe
ROY Jérémy
RICCO Riccardo
COBO ACEBO Juan Jose
DE LA FUENTE David
PIEPOLI Leonardo
CHAVANEL Sylvain
DUMOULIN SamuelDUQUE Leonardo
MOINARD Amaël
VANDEVELDE Christian
FRISCHKORN William
MILLAR David
PATE Danny
I wonder if we have seen some DNFs from people who were afraid of getting busted, after Ricco got caught.

Riders in bold are the ones I'd be confident about not being doped. Just my opinion.

 

[Alexzulle]

After his whole spat regarding an anti-doping contract with Katusha i'd put steegmans at a high probability of having doped in 2008.

 

[pmcg76]

The AFLD doesn't own any labs. Labs are independent and may or may not be WADA accredited (those that test samples are all accredited). Samples are usually sent to the Châtenay-Malabry or Lausanne labs as they usually have the most qualified staff and the most cutting edge methods and equipment. Lausanne being the "top" lab.

Precisely. And they were sent to the Châtenay-Malabry lab for testing. That was a few days before the Giro. And we still haven't heard anything. Which is extremely suspicious

Apologies, this is where I got confused, I knew the samples had been sent to France but I thought it was the AFLD that operated the Chatenay-Malabry lab as they were in charge of the anti-doping at the 08 Tour. Still want to know what happened to these results.

 

[pataphysician]

After his whole spat regarding an anti-doping contract with Katusha i'd put steegmans at a high probability of having doped in 2008.

he may have doped or may not have doped, but i wouldn't attach any significance to him not signing the anti-doping contract. If you and your lawyer/agent sat down with a team's gm and lawyer and worked out a contract would you at a later date sign a new document that opened you up to huge liability without getting something in return? I wouldn't. if they wanted to include it in all future contracts no problem, but why should riders be expected to void their contracts and add provisions without renegotiating the entire deal. if it is at all possible to test positive for any of the banned substances completely by accident(which it could be) a rider with any leverage would be nuts to sign a clause that could cost them multiple times their large salary.

 

[issoisso]

he may have doped or may not have doped, but i wouldn't attach any significance to him not signing the anti-doping contract. If you and your lawyer/agent sat down with a team's gm and lawyer and worked out a contract would you at a later date sign a new document that opened you up to huge liability without getting something in return? I wouldn't. if they wanted to include it in all future contracts no problem, but why should riders be expected to void their contracts and add provisions without renegotiating the entire deal. if it is at all possible to test positive for any of the banned substances completely by accident(which it could be) a rider with any leverage would be nuts to sign a clause that could cost them multiple times their large salary.

So you would refuse a great job if they insisted on a clause in your contract that you will have to pay them severance if you ever commit murder?

 

[Frosty]

I wouldnt have said that testing positive by accident and committing murder were even close to being the same thing?