The truth about L.A

[Oldman]

Just a reminder to stay on topic. This thread isn't about Lemond, Delgado, or who else did what. While there are too many Lance Armstrong threads already, the forum doesn't need other topics buried in an LA thread.

The topic is the Truth about LA and I think the thread proponent left the building. Burn it down.

 

[Anonymous]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=macgregor/100524

Great read posted in the references thread.

Interestingly, cycling may be where we see those involved in doping actually suffer the consequences of their actions. People in our nation love sports, and love sports heroes. But that love of sports, for the greatest number of people, is deeply rooted in but a small percentage of actual sports. Most people care about the NFL, Major League baseball, college football, and college basketball. Everything else is second tier and below. Cycling does not rate here for the most part, and the only reason most follow it relates directly to the myth of individual accomplishment/need for hero that is the Lance Armstrong story.

Maybe, just maybe, we are seeing writers and people in general looking for a place to dump their guilt over not really caring about doping in their favorite sports. Lets face it, the four sports I named are rife with doping. We all know that, and secretly many people know that they don't like it, but they are also huge fans of _____________. And are willing to overlook it. Maybe their guilt is manifesting now in regards to a sport that most don't REALLY care about, and a person they don't REALLY care about. Armstrong could very well go down because of his sins, but also the sins of others. Transference is a common psychological coping mechanism for people, and maybe some people now need someone to tee off on when it comes to doping. Mr Armstrong may find that he is the scape goat for doping.

It couldn't happen to a nicer guy...

 

[Colm.Murphy]

The difference is, and it is the reason I truly don't care if the athletes use medicines to compete, that most Americans view their sports as entertainment. Just like anything else on TV.

The American sports are structured with the implements in place to really protect themselves and allow the carnival to perform. Now and again an athlete tests positive but it is hardly a regular occasion.

If Lance bribed the UCI to make a test go away, and if he did use Federal funds to fuels their programs, then that is far more of a criminal issue that a simple thing.

There are plenty of "bad guys" in sports. This imbroglio with USPS/Discovery team resulted in the 7x Tour winner decimating his rivals and branding that style of winning. If it was all truly fraudulent, start from finish, and the result of massive criminal activities, then clearly there will be justice coming to counter the balance.

Mr. Armstrong, the bell tolls for thee...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Very amusing post Betsy.

One last post before I consider closing this thread as it's drifted so far.

Lion of Flanders is not likely BPC. Neither is Spartacus...

...but that doesn't mean BPC isn't around again. He can't stay away.

As far as making identities known, one suggestion to cleaning this place up from trolls is making that a requirement for posting. You (as in everyone reading this) can alleviate that possibility by putting your correct info in your profilenow. People should be proud of who they are anyway, right?

 

[Anonymous]

Lion of Flanders is not likely BPC. Neither is Spartacus...

As far as making identities known, one suggestion to cleaning this place up from trolls is making that a requirement for posting. You (as in everyone reading this) can alleviate that possibility by putting your correct info in your profilenow. People should be proud of who they are anyway, right?

totally disagree. surely everyone has the right to be anonymous.. especially nowadays with employers looking up what people are doing online, etc, and just generally.. people have the right not to publicise who they are etc for whatever reason they want.

Anyway, i know who lion of flanders is, where he is from, and what his job is, in fact if you are that desperate to have it out with him i can give you his phone number. didnt take me long to find out. Not exactly rocket science. But its irrelevant..

we all have a right to anonymity!

 

[theswordsman]

Shut it down. But I've got a one of a kind name, and since I've been threatened before about pro-Contador and anti-Armstrong activity, I'm not making it easier for people to call or knock on my door. I've been theswordsman here twice, and I've not gone by another name, so that's good enough for me. Because the "witch hunt" is likely to come from Armstrong's people. I'm thinking Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

The difference is, and it is the reason I truly don't care if the athletes use medicines to compete, that most Americans view their sports as entertainment. Just like anything else on TV.

...

+1

In that respect whether Armstrong et. al really dope to get the job done is about as significant as whether Jack Bauer really tortures people to get the job done.

The difference between Jack Bauer and Lance Armstrong is that the real person who plays Jack Bauer uses a different name from the character he plays.

 

[Ferminal]

Very amusing post Betsy.

One last post before I consider closing this thread as it's drifted so far.

Lion of Flanders is not likely BPC. Neither is Spartacus...

...but that doesn't mean BPC isn't around again. He can't stay away.

As far as making identities known, one suggestion to cleaning this place up from trolls is making that a requirement for posting. You (as in everyone reading this) can alleviate that possibility by putting your correct info in your profilenow. People should be proud of who they are anyway, right?

Wow, what happened here...

Spartacus is Bagster in case you're wondering.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Why don't you make your identity known? I made the majority of my calls instead of our attorney. It saved a lot on money. But I understand: attack the messanger when you can't discredit the message.

Wow. The magic of internet. I'll assume you are who you say you are. I am actually curious as to why you have so much hate for Armstrong. It just seems strange to me. Life seems too short to waste on this kind of thing. Anyway, I'm sure that you have your reasons. If you care to share, PM me (there is a PM function on this board isn't there?)

As for my identity, I'll remain somewhat anonymous. I mean, you might decide that you hate me for some reason and start coming after me.

Looks like "Teamskyfan" has already ferreted out my identity. I can't imagine why anyone would be interested. I assure you that I am no-one of importance. That is what strikes me as odd about this whole business, i.e. that people would invest so much "emotional capital" into something that really doesn't directly impact their lives.

 

[elizab]

Seriously Liar of Flanders, how can I hate Lance when he is the president of the Austin chapter of the Betsy Andreu Appreciation Society aka BAAS?

http://velocitynation.com/content/toto/2010/toto-turns-184

Come on, at least be original!

 

[BikeCentric]

Wow. The magic of internet. I'll assume you are who you say you are. I am actually curious as to why you have so much hate for Armstrong. It just seems strange to me. Life seems too short to waste on this kind of thing. Anyway, I'm sure that you have your reasons. If you care to share, PM me (there is a PM function on this board isn't there?)

As for my identity, I'll remain somewhat anonymous. I mean, you might decide that you hate me for some reason and start coming after me.

Looks like "Teamskyfan" has already ferreted out my identity. I can't imagine why anyone would be interested. I assure you that I am no-one of importance. That is what strikes me as odd about this whole business, i.e. that people would invest so much "emotional capital" into something that really doesn't directly impact their lives.

You just illustrated the point bub. You get to remain anonymous while Betsy and Frankie most definitely are not and most certainly have had thier lives affected in a negative way.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

You just illustrated the point bub. You get to remain anonymous while Betsy and Frankie most definitely are not and most certainly have had thier lives affected in a negative way.

Yes, but they knew what they were getting into. The question is "why?"

@Betsy: I'm sorry, I don't understand how the comic applies to me not being original. If you mean that Lance has already called you bad names, and I'm piling on, well I guess you are right.

So far I've called you a "nutcase" which I have no real proof that you are and you have called me a "liar" which you have no real proof that I am. Looks like we are even. I am seriously interested in why you hate Lance so much. I can understand if you don't care to waste time explaining things to me, but perhaps you'll take me at my word that I am genuinely interested.

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like "Teamskyfan" has already ferreted out my identity. I can't imagine why anyone would be interested.

Id already seen you somewhere else didnt take much to find out more, i was more just making a point that if people are that bothered about who you are Im sure they can find out, rather than waste there time speculating all afternoon. As I said, i think everyone has the right to anonymity if they want it.. its an internet forum not some sort of freemasons society.

I also think considering some of the weird pyscho idiots that have been here in the past threatening to kill people, anonymity is probably for the best. If the mods do insist on people putting their real names and locations on their profiles i see a few people leaving, or being banned for non-compliance (or just lying)

Wow. The magic of internet. I'll assume you are who you say you are. I am actually curious as to why you have so much hate for Armstrong. .

Betsy has been a long time visitor to the forum.. Im sure you know of her history with Armstrong, if not, heres a starting point for you - google will give you the rest.

 

[kurtinsc]

Is it wrong that when I see people post their "real names" on the internet, I have the urge to post something like:

"Hello... my name is Barack Obama."

It's kind of like when people start bragging about how much money they make, what their IQ is, or their physical attributes.

I don't believe any personal claim by anyone on a message board. Ever.

But just so you know, I'm a white,overweight diabetic ex-swimmer living in South Carolina who's never smoked...

like I said... Barack Obama.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I guarantee Loser of Flanders is on Pharmstrong's payroll. If he's doing this for free, it has to be one of the most pathetic displays of gratis salad tossing ever.

 

[Anonymous]

can we get back to the matter at hand instead of speculating whom is who, or who is whom or whatever..

Im Robert Carlyle

I guarantee Loser of Flanders is on Pharmstrong's payroll. If he's doing this for free, it has to be one of the most pathetic displays of gratis salad tossing ever.

so you dont agree with his views.. you can still be nice though..

i will be so glad when all this armstrong fun is over and i can go back to being silent again, but all this business is too important, and frankly its probably the biggest moment in cycling in 10 years, so im not missing it

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't believe any personal claim by anyone on a message board. Ever.

I can't win a bike race to save my life.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

can we get back to the matter at hand instead of speculating whom is who, or who is whom or whatever..

Im Robert Carlyle


so you dont agree with his views.. you can still be nice though..

i will be so glad when all this armstrong fun is over and i can go back to being silent again, but all this business is too important, and frankly its probably the biggest moment in cycling in 10 years, so im not missing it

Not speculating, dim. Look, there are people like LoF and his incarnations whose sole purpose is to degrade the level of conversation and to spread misinformation and lies. This type of person doesn't follow rational discussion or debate. It's like debating foreign policy with a FoxNews reporter. They don't care about politeness or whatever. They're just transportation vessels for BS.

 

[rata de sentina]

The other issue is not that Armstrong doped but he taught others to dope.

I think this is probably one of the most important issue. We get all sorts of posters here asking why LA is singled out so much in this forum. Some are clear LA supporters but others are ambivalent (or at least say they are). Certainly LA personally benefited from his own actions but if the indications are correct he (and JB) corrupted others and facilitated their doping. Not so that the others could succeed but so that they could help LA succeed.

He was worried they would tell the other teams what they were up to and worried they would make a mistake and get caught.

Which they did of course, many of them.

One question that interests me is how much of the systematic organised medically supervised blood doping has its origins initial with LA and JB? This is post EPO testing when they switched to blood doping which requires more technical know how and organisation. Were other people just responding when they started their own program. It seems like Landis certainly took this approach with him to Phonak.

 

[Hillavoider]

lol, lion of flanders came back for more trolling. Ha Ha, he is somewhat amusing really. i didn't know people would want to look so stupid even anonymously.

it does show how much support pharmstrong has out there, it will be a long road to get rid of the cancer in the sport, including the love struck fans.

I am worried that Lance Armstrong is the fannie mae or freddie mac, or whatever their names were, of cycling, flandis is cyclings GFC and many people may think Lance is too big to go down and resist it. i hope not.

 

[rata de sentina]

Not speculating, dim. Look, there are people like LoF and his incarnations whose sole purpose is to degrade the level of conversation and to spread misinformation and lies. This type of person doesn't follow rational discussion or debate. It's like debating foreign policy with a FoxNews reporter. They don't care about politeness or whatever. They're just transportation vessels for BS.

They're the forum equivalent of Righi on Giro stage 12 trying to disrupt the 'peloton' and you're the forum equivalent of Evans trying to belt the living snot out of them.

 

[kurtinsc]

I guarantee Loser of Flanders is on Pharmstrong's payroll. If he's doing this for free, it has to be one of the most pathetic displays of gratis salad tossing ever.

I seriously doubt Armstrong is paying anyone to do this sort of thing... or at least not JUST this sort of thing.

I could believe he might have a PR guy who does this (or hires people to do this) sort of thing... but not that he's going out to hire people who's sole job is to ply internet forums.

There are plenty of fans who do that sort of thing for free. That's what a fanatic does.


Based on political internet forums I look at (where hired posters are much more common) the types paid to post messages tend to be drive-bys. They post one or two points and move on... mainly because they don't really know the subject matter. They just have a cheat sheet of a few points to put forward (usually conspiracy theories such as "Obama isn't a US citizen" or "Obama is a muslim" or "Obama pals around with terrorists").

When people hang around for a while and argue... they aren't paid people... they're fans.

 

[Hillavoider]

armstrong fans raid and troll all the time, i have seen it many times, i doubt they are paid but they seem spellbound by him and his mantras

 

[Polish]

it does show how much support pharmstrong has out there, it will be a long road to get rid of the cancer in the sport, including the love struck fans.
.

Hillavoider, there are actually people who will like Lance MORE after he is busted.

New group of fans....

You know, the ones who like the "Bad Boys":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRRQIVKHF8
.
.
.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

I guarantee Loser of Flanders is on Pharmstrong's payroll. If he's doing this for free, it has to be one of the most pathetic displays of gratis salad tossing ever.

Actually, I find it amusing that some people seem to spew so much venom about total strangers.

As for misinformation and lies, most of my message (to those out there are not convinced that they know everything) is simply "let's wait and see when the facts come in". So many of you seem to have the attitude that this forum is for condemning riders and any who don't agree should be pilloried.

As for "looking stupid", I really don't care about what strangers on the internet think about me. As I wrote earlier, folks who are obsessed with seeing Lance (and others) brought down seem a bit silly to me.