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The worst rider to ever win a Monument in modern times.

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Re:

El Pistolero said:
Devolder is a good nominee for worst rider to ever win two Monuments.

I'm not sure who won two Monuments, all the lists start with three or more.

But yeah most likely he's the least accomplished rider to win two monuments.

But that says more about the level of two time monument winners than it does about Devolder.
 
Re: Re:

Jakub said:
Good idea! But I can't pick only one.

Demare!
Then Nibali (should have gotten 2 years ban for his Vuelta performance) and Poels.
Bobrik, Jalabert, Rodriguez, Di Luca!, Kristoff, Gerrans, Cipollini, Iglinskij, Berzin, Vinokourov!!!

If I should pick one then Vinokourov.

Vinokourov?

Unless you want to go clinic that's a ridiculous shout.

Winner of the Vuelta, Podium in the Tour, gold and silver at the olympics, two times bronze WC ITT. Won LBL twice. As well as AGR, PN twice, Dauphine Libere, and Tour de Suisse.

He's head and shoulders above many of the riders mentioned in this thread.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
HelloDolly said:
This is s***.. Surely the beauty of the sport is the small guy can win some times ...like the FA cup
Not every win should be Cancelera or Sagan
In fact Zaugg or Van Summeran's wins are better as the dream came true for a rider who does not necessarily have the big talent...so for me they are the best wins..>Easy to win when God gave you the physical abilities
And it helps every rider who entes a race to believe they can do it one day and keeps them going as they pull in the 1st 50Km in the rain in Belguim in March

Where am I complaining that small riders can win a Monument?

Well you said "laughing stock". I don't think any rider who's won a monument is a laughing stock, unless he's found to have behaved dishonourably, like if the rumours about Démare getting a tow are true, or the guy Willy Voet claims took an 80km shortcut in Flanders in the 70's and finished second (still don't know who that was).
 
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Re: Re:

vedrafjord said:
Well you said "laughing stock". I don't think any rider who's won a monument is a laughing stock, unless he's found to have behaved dishonourably, like if the rumours about Démare getting a tow are true, or the guy Willy Voet claims took an 80km shortcut in Flanders in the 70's and finished second (still don't know who that was).

The Only 'Laughing Stock' I can think of it Walkowiak, and he never won a Monument did he?* I doubt any of the two you mentioned were laughed at by the rest of the riders, 'Clever ***' is more likely what they thought of them.

*Did he?
 
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Re: Re:

vedrafjord said:
El Pistolero said:
HelloDolly said:
This is s***.. Surely the beauty of the sport is the small guy can win some times ...like the FA cup
Not every win should be Cancelera or Sagan
In fact Zaugg or Van Summeran's wins are better as the dream came true for a rider who does not necessarily have the big talent...so for me they are the best wins..>Easy to win when God gave you the physical abilities
And it helps every rider who entes a race to believe they can do it one day and keeps them going as they pull in the 1st 50Km in the rain in Belguim in March

Where am I complaining that small riders can win a Monument?

Well you said "laughing stock". I don't think any rider who's won a monument is a laughing stock, unless he's found to have behaved dishonourably, like if the rumours about Démare getting a tow are true, or the guy Willy Voet claims took an 80km shortcut in Flanders in the 70's and finished second (still don't know who that was).

Mostly referring to Goss and how he has become a joke. Going from winning a Monument to getting dropped by the peloton in 1.2 races is pretty hilarious.
 
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Re: Re:

Ramira said:
El Pistolero said:
Devolder is a good nominee for worst rider to ever win two Monuments.

I'm not sure who won two Monuments, all the lists start with three or more.

But yeah most likely he's the least accomplished rider to win two monuments.

But that says more about the level of two time monument winners than it does about Devolder.

Multiple Monument Winners Since 1945

2 Monuments:
Georges Claes (1946 Roubaix, 1947 Roubaix)
Prosper Depredomme (1946 Liege, 1950 Liege)
Ferdinand Kübler (1952 Liege, 1953 Liege)
Loretto Petrucci (1952 San Remo, 1953 San Remo)
Raymond Impanis (54 Flanders, 54 Roubaix)
Jean Forestier (55 Roubaix, 56 Flanders)
Miguel Poblet (57 San Remo, 59 San Remo)
Noël Foré (59 Roubaix, 63 Flanders)
Rudi Altig (64 Flanders, 68 San Remo)
Franco Bitossi (67 Lombardia, 70 Lombardia)
Joseph Bruyére (76 Liege, 78 Liege)
Fons De Wolf (80 Lombardia, 81 San Remo)
Giuseppe Saronni (82 Lombardia, 83 San Remo)
Eric Vanderaeden (85 Flanders, 87 Roubaix)
Marc Madiot (85 Roubaix, 91 Roubaix)
Adri van der Poel (86 Flanders, 88 Liege)
Gianbattista Baronchelli (77 Lombardia, 86 Lombardia)
Laurent Fignon (88 San Remo, 89 San Remo)
Eddy Planckaert (88 Flanders, 90 Roubaix)
Edwig van Hooydonck (89 Flanders, 91 Flanders)
Tony Rominger (89 Lombardia, 92 Lombardia)
Gianni Bugno (90 San Remo, 94 Flanders)
Gilbert Duclos-Lasselle (92 Roubaix, 93 Roubaix)
Rolf Sørensen (93 Liege, 97 Flanders)
Pascal Richard (93 Lombardia, 96 Liege)
Laurent Jalabert (95 San Remo, 97 Lombardia)
Franco Ballerini (95 Roubaix, 98 Roubaix)
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

3 Monuments:
Fiorenzo Magni (49 Flanders, 50 Flanders, 51 Flanders)
Jo de Roo (62 Lombardia, 63 Lombardia, 65 Flanders)
Emile Daems (60 Lombardia, 62 San Remo, 63 Roubaix)
Tom Simpson (61 Flanders, 64 San Remo, 65 Lombardia)
Eric Leman (70 Flanders, 72 Flanders, 73 Flanders)
Andrei Tchmil (94 Roubaix, 99 San Remo, 00 Flanders)
Andrea Tafi (96 Lombardia, 99 Roubaix, 02 Flanders)
Peter Van Petegem (99 Flanders, 03 Flanders, 03 Roubaix)
Oscar Freire (04 San Remo, 07 San Remo, 10 San Remo)
Damiano Cunego (04 Lombardia, 07 Lombardia, 08 Lombardia)
Alejandro Valverde (06 Liege, 08 Liege, 15 Liege)
Philippe Gilbert (09 Lombardia, 10 Lombardia, 11 Liege)
 
Nice list, thanks.

Based on that it's actually closer than I thought for 2 wins.

Of course a lot depends on where we say modern times begin. I would personally pick 96, but that's because thats when I first started watching.'

That would give:
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

Out of those there's a surprising number of quite good, but not great riders.

I think I'd still argue Devolder would be the least accomplished.

Though Gerrans isn't that much more accomplished. Where he stands above Devolder though is winning two different Monuments.

The next tier would probably be Kristoff/Martin/Degenkolb. But all of those have pretty impressive palmares, with a good number of monument top 10 finishes.

Camenzind was a very underappreciated rider. I really used to enjoy watching him ride. Nice to be reminded of him.
 
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Degenkolb, Kristoff, and Martin all have reasonable chances to win another monument, I guess. Kristoff seems to have lost a lot fo his strength since last year, though. Degenkolb is a classy rider with a decent chance of winning MSR or PR again. Martin could do very well in the Ardennes next few seasons if he gets his team and illnesses sorted out.
 
Re:

Ramira said:
Nice list, thanks.

Based on that it's actually closer than I thought for 2 wins.

Of course a lot depends on where we say modern times begin. I would personally pick 96, but that's because thats when I first started watching.'

That would give:
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

Out of those there's a surprising number of quite good, but not great riders.

I think I'd still argue Devolder would be the least accomplished.

Though Gerrans isn't that much more accomplished. Where he stands above Devolder though is winning two different Monuments.

The next tier would probably be Kristoff/Martin/Degenkolb. But all of those have pretty impressive palmares, with a good number of monument top 10 finishes.

Camenzind was a very underappreciated rider. I really used to enjoy watching him ride. Nice to be reminded of him.
Camenzind was also world champion in 1998.
 
Re:

Ramira said:
Nice list, thanks.

Based on that it's actually closer than I thought for 2 wins.

Of course a lot depends on where we say modern times begin. I would personally pick 96, but that's because thats when I first started watching.'

That would give:
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

Out of those there's a surprising number of quite good, but not great riders.

I think I'd still argue Devolder would be the least accomplished.

Though Gerrans isn't that much more accomplished. Where he stands above Devolder though is winning two different Monuments.

The next tier would probably be Kristoff/Martin/Degenkolb. But all of those have pretty impressive palmares, with a good number of monument top 10 finishes.

Camenzind was a very underappreciated rider. I really used to enjoy watching him ride. Nice to be reminded of him.

And the fact that he has plenty of victories elsewhere
 
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Re: Re:

Forever The Best said:
Ramira said:
Nice list, thanks.

Based on that it's actually closer than I thought for 2 wins.

Of course a lot depends on where we say modern times begin. I would personally pick 96, but that's because thats when I first started watching.'

That would give:
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

Out of those there's a surprising number of quite good, but not great riders.

I think I'd still argue Devolder would be the least accomplished.

Though Gerrans isn't that much more accomplished. Where he stands above Devolder though is winning two different Monuments.

The next tier would probably be Kristoff/Martin/Degenkolb. But all of those have pretty impressive palmares, with a good number of monument top 10 finishes.

Camenzind was a very underappreciated rider. I really used to enjoy watching him ride. Nice to be reminded of him.
Camenzind was also world champion in 1998.

Yeah, I'm not doing the list again to include the rainbow jersey. :D
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
Ramira said:
Nice list, thanks.

Based on that it's actually closer than I thought for 2 wins.

Of course a lot depends on where we say modern times begin. I would personally pick 96, but that's because thats when I first started watching.'

That would give:
Oscar Camenzind (98 Lombardia, 01 Liege)
Danilo Di Luca (01 Lombardia, 07 Liege)
Alexander Vinokourov (05 Liege, 10 Liege)
Stijn Devolver (08 Flanders, 09 Flanders)
Simon Gerrans (12 San Remo, 14 Liege)
Joaquim Rodriguez (12 Lombardia, 13 Lombardia)
Dan Martin (13 Liege, 14 Lombardia)
Alexander Kristoff (14 San Remo, 15 Flanders)
John Degenkolb (15 San Remo, 15 Roubaix)

Out of those there's a surprising number of quite good, but not great riders.

I think I'd still argue Devolder would be the least accomplished.

Though Gerrans isn't that much more accomplished. Where he stands above Devolder though is winning two different Monuments.

The next tier would probably be Kristoff/Martin/Degenkolb. But all of those have pretty impressive palmares, with a good number of monument top 10 finishes.

Camenzind was a very underappreciated rider. I really used to enjoy watching him ride. Nice to be reminded of him.

And the fact that he has plenty of victories elsewhere

The thing is that he was a pretty decent sprinter though, so he was always going to have more victories than Devolder, who's a time trialist slash baroudeur. And the quality of his other wins don't really come close to the value of a Monument victory. That's why I don't think that much separates them. But I do agree Gerrans was a better cyclist than Devolder.

The reason I said what I said is because Gerrans only has two other top 10's in a Monument. While the other three I mentioned have quite a few:

Kristoff: 8 (+2 WC)
Martin: 4 (+4 FW)
Degenkolb: 3 (including a 2nd in PR, a victory in GW and 2 in the WC)

They're all more accomplished classic riders. And they all still have time to build their Palmares. Each of them could easily win another monument.

But all 2 monument winners are pretty damn good cyclists, and Gerrans is no exception.
 
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Gerrans won the GP de Québec (2012, 2014), GP de Montreal (2014), GP Quest-France (2009), 2 Tour stages, one Giro stage and one Vuelta stage. He also won two different Monuments.

He is A LOT better than Stijn Devolder imo. He also won the Tour Down Under four times, and even though it's a *** race, it's still WT.
 
Re:

El Pistolero said:
Gerrans won the GP de Québec (2012, 2014), GP de Montreal (2014), GP Quest-France (2009), 2 Tour stages, one Giro stage and one Vuelta stage. He also won two different Monuments.

He is A LOT better than Stijn Devolder imo. He also won the Tour Down Under four times, and even though it's a **** race, it's still WT.

The thing is those races were all against a devalued start list, and most in a small group sprint. I'm not so sure they're more impressive than the 3 NC won by Devolder. After all he had to beat the likes of Gilbert, van Avermaet and Boonen.

I'll grant you Gerrans was a better rider, never denied that. But I don't think it's by all that much. Devolder simply wasn't a rider suited for many wins. As I said before he was a time trialist and baroudeur. And his monument wins were in more impressive fashion than those of Gerrans.

Edit: And to be clear, this is obviously purely personal opinion. The two of them are such different riders it's impossible to compare them objectively, as it depends so much on what you consider to be important to make someone a great rider.

I have to admit I'm quite partial to riders of the Devolder type (though I'm not a fan of him in particular), so I'm probably biased.
 
Re: Re:

Billie said:
Ramira said:
Billie said:
Can't believe people named Devolder and Wesemann :eek:

Yeah Wesemann seems incredibly underrated. Apart from his win in RvV he was on the Podium twice in PR, once in AGR and once in GW. Sure he wasn't an inevitable winnner like Boonen or Cancellara, but he was a very good rider.

Oddly enough Devolder might be a better (though still ridiculous) shout. As apart from his victory his best result in a classic was a 7th in PR (his only other top 10 in a true classic). But even though he won because people were marking Boonen, his effort was incredibly powerful both times, a very deserving winner. Though a bit of a flash in the pan.


Devolder also won Belgian NC 3X, got third in Suisse, TOP 10'd a GT and regularly won stage races. Don't like him but absolutely do not understand why he would even be named here...
Never top 10'd a GT and only won third race stage races. National championships are always a bit strange, so I think it is difficult to rate them. Outside his 2 monuments Devolder hasn't done anything special (a valuable domestique though).
 
Re: Re:

Ramira said:
El Pistolero said:
Gerrans won the GP de Québec (2012, 2014), GP de Montreal (2014), GP Quest-France (2009), 2 Tour stages, one Giro stage and one Vuelta stage. He also won two different Monuments.

He is A LOT better than Stijn Devolder imo. He also won the Tour Down Under four times, and even though it's a **** race, it's still WT.

The thing is those races were all against a devalued start list, and most in a small group sprint. I'm not so sure they're more impressive than the 3 NC won by Devolder. After all he had to beat the likes of Gilbert, van Avermaet and Boonen.

I'll grant you Gerrans was a better rider, never denied that. But I don't think it's by all that much. Devolder simply wasn't a rider suited for many wins. As I said before he was a time trialist and baroudeur. And his monument wins were in more impressive fashion than those of Gerrans.

Edit: And to be clear, this is obviously purely personal opinion. The two of them are such different riders it's impossible to compare them objectively, as it depends so much on what you consider to be important to make someone a great rider.

I have to admit I'm quite partial to riders of the Devolder type (though I'm not a fan of him in particular), so I'm probably biased.

Agree here, but thats probably most due to the fact that I really dislike Gerrans..
 
Re: Re:

Bardamu said:
manolo57 said:
Bardamu said:
I'll put Iglinsky in the list as well.

Iglinsky was really strong when he won LBL. But we all know the truth...
Yep, he was strong that race. Not that strong besides that time.

***, if you acutally followed him you would know that Iglinskiys weakness was his incosistency. He was Contadors last helper in 2008, he was 9th in Romandie, 4th in Tirreno Adriatico, 8th in Milan Sanremo, 8th in Ronde Van Vlaandren, 3rd in E3. He has won Strade Bianchie and also has a 2nd from the race.

When Iglinskiy was on form he was good.
 
Re: Re:

Ramira said:
El Pistolero said:
Gerrans won the GP de Québec (2012, 2014), GP de Montreal (2014), GP Quest-France (2009), 2 Tour stages, one Giro stage and one Vuelta stage. He also won two different Monuments.

He is A LOT better than Stijn Devolder imo. He also won the Tour Down Under four times, and even though it's a **** race, it's still WT.

The thing is those races were all against a devalued start list, and most in a small group sprint. I'm not so sure they're more impressive than the 3 NC won by Devolder. After all he had to beat the likes of Gilbert, van Avermaet and Boonen.

I'll grant you Gerrans was a better rider, never denied that. But I don't think it's by all that much. Devolder simply wasn't a rider suited for many wins. As I said before he was a time trialist and baroudeur. And his monument wins were in more impressive fashion than those of Gerrans.

Edit: And to be clear, this is obviously purely personal opinion. The two of them are such different riders it's impossible to compare them objectively, as it depends so much on what you consider to be important to make someone a great rider.

I have to admit I'm quite partial to riders of the Devolder type (though I'm not a fan of him in particular), so I'm probably biased.
Winning in small group sprints suddenly makes it less impressive? Let's cross off 90% of Boonens victories in that case.
 

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