Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE's)

[BullsFan22]

Hog posted an image from Hamilton's book. It was surprising how very little attention is paid by TH to the TUE phenomenon if that was the only extract he could offer. The only positive is that TUEs are less important to the doper than is being claimed here or by the hackers. This whole story is proving a triumph for the West and a disaster for the Clinic.

My take on it is that the hackers are very good at 'hacking,' and getting what they think is important, but they necessarily know what they are getting and how it's important. They don't know enough about TUE's, bans, dates of use, what is a PED/what isn't, etc. In other words, they can get the information, but they would need to hand it over to someone who can 'translate' that information and potentially get something out of it. Having said that, I don't think they are done just yet. I think they will uncover actual positives.

Like I wrote yesterday, once the public sees "Russian hackers," they will automatically dismiss it, and if they don't dismiss it right away, they'll use it to say, like Tygart said, 'breach of privacy,' and 'how dare the Russians do this?!'

 

[sniper]

Question. Are TUEs for high hematocrit included in Adams?

 

[sniper]

I mean exemptions. They wouldn't be TUEs.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Question. Are TUEs for high hematocrit included in Adams?

You can't have a TUE for "high" hematocrit as far as I'm aware. The same way you can't have a TUE for "really strong muscles".

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

Yes, maybe. But consider that you are a professional athlete and at least half of your job -- like all of us -- is showing up. "he played through pain" is a compliment.

True, but this is where you have to change mentalities : if you allow athletes to compete while medicated, than you open the door to doping.

There is a fine line to be walked here. Wiggins had TUEs for allergy medication. If we take it at face value then I really don't see a problem with that, if I worked outdoors and suffered from hayfever there would be no problem with me taking medication to do my job, in fact it would be expected. Being an athlete is just a job and we need to make sure we stay focussed on that when discussing legitimate medical issues.

Why doesn't he have TUEs for other years at the same time period, for training, etc, but only before the specific GTs when he is competing ? I am not saying this is a red flag, but rather that some explanations wouldn't hurt....

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

Yes, maybe. But consider that you are a professional athlete and at least half of your job -- like all of us -- is showing up. "he played through pain" is a compliment.

True, but this is where you have to change mentalities : if you allow athletes to compete while medicated, than you open the door to doping.

There is a fine line to be walked here. Wiggins had TUEs for allergy medication. If we take it at face value then I really don't see a problem with that, if I worked outdoors and suffered from hayfever there would be no problem with me taking medication to do my job, in fact it would be expected. Being an athlete is just a job and we need to make sure we stay focussed on that when discussing legitimate medical issues.

Why doesn't he have TUEs for other years at the same time period, for training, etc, but only before the specific GTs when he is competing ? I am not saying this is a red flag, but rather that some explanations wouldn't hurt....

You know, a teeny tiny bit of reading would help you answer this yourself. It's ridiculous how many people come into the clinic and throw around accusations without even having the basic sense to educate themselves with things that are freely available on the internet. To save you the bother, glucocorticosteroids are S9 on the WADA Prohibited list and as such are only banned in competition. This is a perfect example of one of the reasons why athletes, coaches etc. do not want this information in the public domain. If something as basic as simple fact-checking isn't done how can you expect people to understand much more complex information such as longitudinal blood parameters?

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

well thank you for the explanation.

 

[climb4fun]

My first post on Cyclingnews "The Clinic" forum in 2009 was - What TUE did Armstrong, Contador, Indurain, Lemond have?

Armstrong - Cancer
Contador - Stroke
Indurain - ?
Lemond - Lead poisoning

All came back stronger.

No response then. Anyone know of any?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Question. Are TUEs for high hematocrit included in Adams?

You can't have a TUE for "high" hematocrit as far as I'm aware. The same way you can't have a TUE for "really strong muscles".

cheers.
As you see, I corrected myself. I simply meant "exemption", not a TU-exepmtion.
Afaik, it's an exemption that you have in your medical files and that says that you have natural 50+ hematocrit.
Contador has such an exemption (mentioned in the CAS report), Vaughters had one (by his own admission), Wegelius had one, Cioni had one (publicized at the time). Hayles got one (retrospectively, following his high hematocrit reading in 2008).
All from our friend Zorzoli.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Question. Are TUEs for high hematocrit included in Adams?

You can't have a TUE for "high" hematocrit as far as I'm aware. The same way you can't have a TUE for "really strong muscles".

cheers.
As you see, I corrected myself. I simply meant "exemption", not a TU-exepmtion.
Afaik, it's an exemption that you have in your medical files and that says that you have natural 50+ hematocrit.
Contador has such an exemption (mentioned in the CAS report), Vaughters had one (by his own admission), Wegelius had one, Cioni had one (publicized at the time). Hayles got one (retrospectively ).
All from our friend Zorzoli.

I'm pretty sure they are UCI issued. I think you need to go through a testing period to qualify, from what I remember Hayles did two weeks or something like that. If that's the case I would guess it won't be in the ADAMS system, it would be interesting to know if it is now monitored using the ABP (as this is basically one of the main functions of the ABP).

 

[Catwhoorg]

A slight aside.

I wonder how many of the current riders who once had a "50% exemption", routinely test at that level or above in the biopassport.

 

[sniper]

I'd like to see an analysis of the TUEs for diuretics.
From the new releases, i saw the polish rower was prescribed mannitol.
Is there a nondoping explanation for that?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

All the leaks and with the athletes themselves saying that they are not ashamed, then why not make all info public so that no issue arises

Because it compromises the athletes' right to privacy.

This.

Simone Biles is a perfect example. She has ADHD, she doesn't want to have to discuss it and that's her choice. This leak has not only made it public knowledge, it has forced her to defend herself when she has done nothing wrong.


There is no doubt that the TUE system can be and is abused, but there are also many legitimate reasons for athletes to have them. The system seems to need changing, that would be a worthwhile discussion in here, rather than focussing on the athletes which is going on in the other threads.

I disagree.

I think athletes long lost the right to privacy. if they are taking medications which may affect performance the public has a right to know.

If a person does not want to declare their 'illness/medical disorder', then don't compete. Simples.

I dont think a minority of athletes are abusing it, i think the majority are.

ADHD is hardly an embarrassing disorder, now is it.

Fertility problems, mental/behavior issues are two that fairly quickly spring to mind that I wouldn't want the general public to know about personally. Athletes are still people and people (in most of the world) have some rights.

If those things are more important than your sport, leave sport. Simples.

Don't fans have rights?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

All the leaks and with the athletes themselves saying that they are not ashamed, then why not make all info public so that no issue arises

Because it compromises the athletes' right to privacy.

This.

Simone Biles is a perfect example. She has ADHD, she doesn't want to have to discuss it and that's her choice. This leak has not only made it public knowledge, it has forced her to defend herself when she has done nothing wrong.


There is no doubt that the TUE system can be and is abused, but there are also many legitimate reasons for athletes to have them. The system seems to need changing, that would be a worthwhile discussion in here, rather than focussing on the athletes which is going on in the other threads.

I disagree.

I think athletes long lost the right to privacy. if they are taking medications which may affect performance the public has a right to know.

If a person does not want to declare their 'illness/medical disorder', then don't compete. Simples.

I dont think a minority of athletes are abusing it, i think the majority are.

ADHD is hardly an embarrassing disorder, now is it.

oh god, you are taking sports way too seriously we aren't talking here about criminals of war or anything

Cheating is a white collar crime. Why have so many police authorities felt the need to get involved in investigating sport. I think you will also find doping is a crime in France.

We are talking about millions(possible billions) of dollars here when we consider that athletes get paid by huge corporations to compete wearing their logos or branded clothing, bikes, etc.....

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

quote="Benotti69"]

All the leaks and with the athletes themselves saying that they are not ashamed, then why not make all info public so that no issue arises

Because it compromises the athletes' right to privacy.

This.

Simone Biles is a perfect example. She has ADHD, she doesn't want to have to discuss it and that's her choice. This leak has not only made it public knowledge, it has forced her to defend herself when she has done nothing wrong.


There is no doubt that the TUE system can be and is abused, but there are also many legitimate reasons for athletes to have them. The system seems to need changing, that would be a worthwhile discussion in here, rather than focussing on the athletes which is going on in the other threads.

I disagree.

I think athletes long lost the right to privacy. if they are taking medications which may affect performance the public has a right to know.

If a person does not want to declare their 'illness/medical disorder', then don't compete. Simples.

I dont think a minority of athletes are abusing it, i think the majority are.

ADHD is hardly an embarrassing disorder, now is it.

Fertility problems, mental/behavior issues are two that fairly quickly spring to mind that I wouldn't want the general public to know about personally. Athletes are still people and people (in most of the world) have some rights.

If those things are more important than your sport, leave sport. Simples.

Don't fans have rights?[/quote]

Yes the same right to privacy as athletes, it's completely unreasonable to expect otherwise.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Yes the same right to privacy as athletes, it's completely unreasonable to expect otherwise.

I dont think it is unreasonable, unless sport is seen as entertainment and then let them dope.

When athletes are selling themselves and their performances as legit, fans have a right to know it is legit. Full transparency helps that.

WADA are an IOC concoction, i dont expect them to play fair.

 

[sniper]

I would add that clean athletes have the right to know they are competing against clean athletes.
Hence full transparency required

 

[42x16ss]

Quick question, are the TUEs for insulin for the guys on Norvo Nordisk included in the annual TUE numbers? Because going through another thread, things don't stack up.

Apparently 13 TUEs were granted for 2015, yet Norvo Nordisk has 20 riders, all with type 1 diabetes...

 

[gooner]

Catching up with this thread and have to agree with King Boonen and La Florecita regarding an athlete's right to privacy.

What if it's a genuine sensitive issue for a person? Very easy to call for the public disclose of something like this when the person doing this isn't the one disclosing. I agree with what was said up thread, I think people are taking sport way too seriously when they want to impede on someone's private medical records. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

To the people saying they have given up the right to privacy the moment they became elite athletes, that is nonsense. People don't just decide out of nowhere that they are an elite athlete, talent and ability dictates that. Because they have that, doesn't mean then they should give up the right to their medical records as the ordinary person on the street with his daily job doesn't.

More importantly I don't want to know. It's none of my business and it says a lot about the people that say privacy on such an issue doesn't matter. There is a difference between calling for transparency and wanting a breach of privacy on an athlete's medical records.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re:

Quick question, are the TUEs for insulin for the guys on Norvo Nordisk included in the annual TUE numbers? Because going through another thread, things don't stack up.

Apparently 13 TUEs were granted for 2015, yet Norvo Nordisk has 20 riders, all with type 1 diabetes...

Are they conti or pro conti ?.

If conti then the relevant NADO would be the issuing authority (USADA IIRC).

Otherwise, then it is entirely possible they have open ended/long term TUES. I mean its not like anyone ever gets cured of type 1.

 

[thehog]

More importantly I don't want to know. It's none of my business and it says a lot about the people that say privacy on such an issue doesn't matter. There is a difference between calling for transparency and wanting a breach of privacy on an athlete's medical records.

A TUE is a medical record?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Quick question, are the TUEs for insulin for the guys on Norvo Nordisk included in the annual TUE numbers? Because going through another thread, things don't stack up.

Apparently 13 TUEs were granted for 2015, yet Norvo Nordisk has 20 riders, all with type 1 diabetes...

Are they conti or pro conti ?.

If conti then the relevant NADO would be the issuing authority (USADA IIRC).

Otherwise, then it is entirely possible they have open ended/long term TUES. I mean its not like anyone ever gets cured of type 1.

Norvo Nordisk is Pro Conti. They must do, because otherwise they would throw everything out.

 

[LaFlorecita]

More importantly I don't want to know. It's none of my business and it says a lot about the people that say privacy on such an issue doesn't matter. There is a difference between calling for transparency and wanting a breach of privacy on an athlete's medical records.

A TUE is a medical record?

A medical record is a person's entire medical history including medication, procedures, illnesses etc.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Quick question, are the TUEs for insulin for the guys on Norvo Nordisk included in the annual TUE numbers? Because going through another thread, things don't stack up.

Apparently 13 TUEs were granted for 2015, yet Norvo Nordisk has 20 riders, all with type 1 diabetes...

The riders must have long-term TUEs

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Fertility problems, mental/behavior issues are two that fairly quickly spring to mind that I wouldn't want the general public to know about personally. Athletes are still people and people (in most of the world) have some rights.

I was thinking about exactly those two; depression, schizophrenia, fertility issues, it's not hard to understand people suffering from these problems might not want it to be public. Rule of thumb: if you wouldn't talk about it with your neighbor or colleague, the general public shouldn't know about it either.