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Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

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He already has had a great career as a stage racer, but a GT winner he is not. He has DNF'd more TdFs than he has finished, and DNF'd the Giro and Vurlta too. That is not the Palmares of a GT winner.

The French got very excited because he got a 3rd podium in the TdF, but actually he should have saved himself the mental anguish and focussed on his strengths. Instead, his whole emotional energy has gone into the very thing which is his weakness.
Actually, he's never really been a great stage racer. At least not among the very best. He is a very good stage hunter and one day racer, though.

Edit: As far as I can tell, he's done 92 stage races in his career, won two 2.HC stage rages and five 2.1 stage races. That's it. And in 34 WT one week races, he has three podiums in total.
 
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Actually, he's never really been a great stage racer. At least not among the very best. He is a very good stage hunter and one day racer, though.

I'm just being cautious. Don't want to upset any fans ;)

I agree. He has won two stage races (albeit with a bunch of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5ths too) Not sure how that translates into being a potential GT winner.

That said, as pro cycling goes, that is a good career. Most riders dont get near that.
 
He's a monument winner with a Tour podium and 5 GT stage wins. Give a bit of respect, he's not just some mug.
It's not a question of respect. It's the reality of the sport. A French GC contender, riding the Tour de France each year for a French team, will get a much bigger contract than if they choose any other career path.

He is a talented rider, but he's never been at the very top. He's done well for himself imo.
 
Sadly Thibaut's career will suffer as a result of being French.

If the tour wasn't the be all end all he could have had a better Spilak style career picking up one week wins and other races.

I'm never going to be convinced he can win a 3 week race but if he made a serious focus on other GT's you never know there either.

His palmares will end up very weak for his talent but I suppose he will have been paid well at the end of the day
 
Awaiting philosophical reflections from Tonton. -- Sad to see Pinot's demise today (stage 8), but not as painful as last year, when the roller coaster had gone much further and success looked potentially much closer . . . before being torn away.
I don't feel like expressing any philosophical thoughts but rather expletives. I'm very sad, less than last year when Thibaut, I felt, was going to win it all. I bet he'll wait until rest day; if he doesn't get better, no need to continue. Rest, come back with a vengeance. I disagree with some of the points made: Pinot didn't fall in his head last Saturday. At this point, it doesn't matter, I guess. (Expletive)
 
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I like him, how can I not, I needed excitement in 2012 Tour.
But to be honest, he's not even cut for a tragic hero figure, having not been close regularly enough to greatness.
He's just....a good and likeable rider that never really takes the underdog shirt off.
Yep, a likeable underdog who has picked up a handful of big wins and has managed to secure massive contracts. Earning more than the likes of Dumoulin, Yates, Quintana, GVA... I don't think we should feel any regrets on his behalf; I'm sure he wouldn't change a thing if you asked him to choose his races again.
 
I think that whenever Pinot falters, people are quick to revert to the image of a suffering 2013 young, inexperienced Pinot, who had the weight of France on his shoulders, and who became paralyzed when descending and bonked when the sun was shining. They don't see the guy, who had the tenacity to bounce back from these very same, heartwrenching failures and improving himself further year after year. I get that to a degree. He is one of the strongest climbers in the world, I dare say, but unfortunately he has been in the wrong place at the wrong time one to many times. There is a pattern, these DNFs, that are increasingly difficult to ignore. You could string together a reasonable argument, like people including myself do with Richie Porte, that this man isn't cut out for Grand Tours. When push comes to shove, something gets in his way, whether be a crash, a handlebar, a puncture.

I would argue, that people tend to forget these two seemingly forgettable, but crucial points regarding Pinot and what differentiates him with what I would argue are lesser and/or fragile riders like Porte. Firstly, the very same people rushing to point out his numerous failures, either downplay or forget the fact, the he has bounced back every time. His failure in 2013 was followed up by a podium, which could have ended in a "mere" top-5, if Contador and Froome stayed upright. His early crashes and mechanicals in 2015 which put him out of GC contention, saw him bounce back, sit with the favorites up Plateau de Beille (not the most exciting stage though) and finally a stage win atop Alpe d'Huez. His 2016 DNF (one of the most forgettable Tours along with 2018) ended his season, but in 2017 he kicked it up a notch by beating Valverde and Contador in Andalusia and proved that his 2014 Tour wasn't a fluke by finishing 4th in the Giro and riding with the best in the 3rd week and a decent autumn campaign. His 2018 Giro ended with him getting sick after Froomexplosion, but when everyone again wrote him off, he bounced back in a strong, albeit slightly inconsistent Vuelta and had a blistering autumn campaign, where he put then TDF-stage winner Roglic to the sword, showing a higher level than ever before.

Secondly is that Pinot showed both in the 2018 and 2019, that when there is no freak injury, only guys like Froome and Dumoulin have been able to ride away from him. Frequent visitors of this thread, whether fans or critics probably don't need to be reminded that he put everyone including the highly-rated Bernal, touted as Roglic's bane, in their place last year, whether on Tourmalet and Prat d'Albis. I haven't seen Porte do that in any Grand Tour since, actually except Froome's (in)famous Ax-3 and Pierre Saint Martin victories, where Porte was merely a helper, but that is beside the point.

Do these freak injuries say something about his toughness? They do suggest a physical fragility, but mentally? I don't think you do find many stronger than him in the peloton in face of adversity. What I find alluring about Pinot as a rider is besides his attacking spirit and combackstories, is that his peak/injury/accidentfree level is matched by very, very few in today's peloton, but like a delicate piece of art, a slight error or a coffee stain can ruin the the whole picture. And I guess I find it a shame, that people disregard and fail to see the beauty of a painting because of the stains it has. After today, I don't think that the painting will ever get a makeover, but that shouldn't diminish its true beauty or vitality. Pinot will most certainly never win a GT anymore, but to say that he never had it in him or that he wasn't a great stage racer...that I regard misplaced.

For now, I think that polka dots would suit him, but losing 25 minutes because of his back makes me think, that he probably won't recover to make repeated efforts day after day. If FDJ don't think a stage win is likely, he should pull out and focus on other races instead of finishing for the sake of it. Hope he gives the Ardennes and/or a Giro-Vuelta double a go in the coming year or two. Tour de France and Thibaut Pinot aren't meant for each other, it seems.
 
Pinot is the face of French cycling. I jumped on his bandwagon 7-8 years ago when he looked like a savior for the French only to jump off after utter disappointment. Now he’s just another heartbreaker, an unworthy mug in the bunch. So much talent, so few results. He’s made a good living I’m sure. Maybe he can parlay that into a TV deal. Hopefully he’ll be better at that than GT cycling.
 
I wonder if he'll have to move teams to do that? He could have a great career, and actual success, as a one-day and stage race rider. Instead of which, his season is defined every year by his failure at The Tour. Can't be good for his mental health and is waste of his talent
He's already won Lombardia, and stages in all 3 GTs with FDJ. Why would he move teams? Next year they could bring him and Demarre, go for stages and green, and if Tibo (or Gaudu) finishes top 10 call it a bonus.

And maybe let Tibo have a go at he Ardennes, too.
 
Rettenbachferner it is! :)

IMHO it's his signature win even. Of course Lagos de Covadonga, Il Lombardia a & Porrentruy are more prestigious and well-known. But it was Rettenbachferner that cemented Pinot's potential as a great climber who's got the ability to win big. Something we still refer to up till today despite Pinot being a notorious Schlemiel!
 
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At this point i donot think there is any point. A stage win may provide consolation but it might also aggravate whatever problem he has. Abandon, rest, recover and prepare for Giro GC. Maybe also his hand at some of the classics along the way

He's doing the Vuelta. However, he's not planning on abandoning. Understandably; I suppose he might want to get rid of the reputation as the guy who always abandons.
 
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Rettenbachferner it is! :)

IMHO it's his signature win even. Of course Lagos de Covadonga, Il Lombardia a & Porrentruy are more prestigious and well-known. But it was Rettenbachferner that cemented Pinot's potential as a great climber who's got the ability to win big. Something we still refer to up till today despite Pinot being a notorious Schlemiel!
Yes, I somehow forgot about that one!
 
Sadly Thibaut's career will suffer as a result of being French.

If the tour wasn't the be all end all he could have had a better Spilak style career picking up one week wins and other races.

I'm never going to be convinced he can win a 3 week race but if he made a serious focus on other GT's you never know there either.

His palmares will end up very weak for his talent but I suppose he will have been paid well at the end of the day
Are you joking. Pinot has had a way better career than some forgotten lad who was good in Switzerland a few times
 
Are you joking. Pinot has had a way better career than some forgotten lad who was good in Switzerland a few times
Exactly. Who really cares about one week races or Lombardia? A few cycling diehards and contrarians perhaps, but certainly not the general public. It's all about GTs - especially the Tour. Pinot has maximised his exposure, and his earnings out of his talent. And has a few decent results to show for it as well. He shouldn't have any regrets.
 
Exactly. Who really cares about one week races or Lombardia? A few cycling diehards and contrarians perhaps, but certainly not the general public. It's all about GTs - especially the Tour. Pinot has maximised his exposure, and his earnings out of his talent. And has a few decent results to show for it as well. He shouldn't have any regrets.
Well Lombardia is very important certainly way more so than some 1 week races in Switzerland but yes lets all be honest the tour might not be the most exciting rae but deep down it is still most peoples favorite
 
Well Lombardia is very important certainly way more so than some 1 week races in Switzerland but yes lets all be honest the tour might not be the most exciting rae but deep down it is still most peoples favorite
Yeah, Lombardia is great for cycling fans for sure. But no rider looks back on their career and thinks, 'I wish I'd raced fewer Tour de Frances and had peaked more for Lombardia and the Dauphine'.
 
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